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Thread: Overpaid Pacers.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    No one in the NBA is as overpaid as Murphy and Dunleavy are, no one. I rather have Jerome James' contract then Dunleavys or Murphys.

    LMAO @ Comparing those two to Jermaine O'Neal. Ohh and the FG%, what is he supposed to shoot when he is the only player on this team that demands that someone guards him. Our 1,2,and 3 stand around the 3 point line and brick shot after shot. Wilt would suck with all these dudes on his team. Jermaine's FG% was not that low until the trade was made and he was put on a team with Dunleavy and Murphy who NO ONE wants to guard and who cant do nothing by themselves.

    Put KG or Duncan on this team and we will see how amazing they would be doing.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac View Post
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    No one in the NBA is as overpaid as Murphy and Dunleavy are, no one. I rather have Jerome James' contract then Dunleavys or Murphys.

    LMAO @ Comparing those two to Jermaine O'Neal. Ohh and the FG%, what is he supposed to shoot when he is the only player on this team that demands that someone guards him. Our 1,2,and 3 stand around the 3 point line and brick shot after shot. Wilt would suck with all these dudes on his team. Jermaine's FG% was not that low until the trade was made and he was put on a team with Dunleavy and Murphy who NO ONE wants to guard and who cant do nothing by themselves.

    Put KG or Duncan on this team and we will see how amazing they would be doing.

    And I hope we get the chance to see what KG would do with this team, because JO has not led them anywhere but to mediocracy.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Ohh and KG has lead the TWolves to a whole bunch of ****. They got all kinds of rafters up in their arena for Randy Foye and Rashad McCants lottery draftings.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Every pro athlete is overpaid when you compare their profession to that of the people in the world that actually make a difference every day. Why do we care if someone is overpaid? Leave that to the GM (or GM's in the Pacers case) to deal with.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    Good Point. He's getting paid like Rip or Prince. There are a few other 2/3 guys making roughly the same as MDJ......Caron Butler, Mike Miller,Manu, Cuttino Mobley...who I'd rather have too.
    Dunleavy can do a lot of good things so i don't have a problem with his salary. We wouldn't be having this conversation about Dunleavy's contract except that he is packaged with Murphy who is a bust and who unlike Dunleavy can't play any position on the floor. Yes he doesn't have the best bang for the buck but he is a very decent backup at 2 positions.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    I don't think JO was overpaid until the last couple of season when he developed his fade-away jumper that he connects on about 25%. I've repeatedly pointed out this fact. If he would take the ball to the hoop instead of shooting from the outside, he would be much more effective.

    When you take that many outside jumpers (and fade-aways at that, where he is invariably short) your shooting pct. is going to plummet.
    Ok, now this I can definitely agree with. I hate that Jermaine's percentage has gone down this season, and I'd love to see it back up closer to 50%. The problem, to me, is that we've put him in a system where he has to shoot fadeaway jumpers to get shots.

    Jermaine's simply not as good in a static system as he is in a dynamic one. That's just all there is to it. At the same time, giving him the ball at 18' and telling him to make something happen is just as bad. Jermaine's a post player, but today's NBA doesn't allow post players much room if the rest of the team doesn't need guarding.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Ok, now this I can definitely agree with. I hate that Jermaine's percentage has gone down this season, and I'd love to see it back up closer to 50%. The problem, to me, is that we've put him in a system where he has to shoot fadeaway jumpers to get shots.

    Jermaine's simply not as good in a static system as he is in a dynamic one. That's just all there is to it. At the same time, giving him the ball at 18' and telling him to make something happen is just as bad. Jermaine's a post player, but today's NBA doesn't allow post players much room if the rest of the team doesn't need guarding.
    And conversely, if your post player demands the ball and a large chunk of the offense to run thru him (or your coach installs that type of system)... then offensive flow goes out the window... and you become an easy team to defend if your centerpiece is not on a whole other level. You also castrate your guards and wing players to a large degree.

    Our perimeter game is never going to look good as long as we play that way.

    And chemistry will always falter with JO being used the way we do because he is just not good enough.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Yes he doesn't have the best bang for the buck but he is a very decent backup at 2 positions.
    For a decent backup, he's overpaid. There are a number of guys in the NBA who bring similar games to the table for less money. I'm not trying to single MDJ out. I think the Pacers possess a number of bad contracts, including his, that put them in a poor position. They are paying at least four backup quality players starter money. This has become a major concern of mine in the last 6 months. The six highest paid Pacers are JO, Murphy, Dunleavy, Daniels, Tinsley and Foster in that order. How many truely see those six guys as a major force? I see (to varying degrees) five borderline starters and an all-star type player. JO likely has 3 years left, Murphy has 4, Dunleavy has 4, Daniels has at least 2, Tinsley has 4 and Foster likely has 2. With Ike, Granger and Williams the only other significant players on the roster and all with team options after next season, at a certain point somebody is going to walk away a free agent. That doesn't even account for the other 6 roster spots that will need to be filled every season or future draft picks. Will it matter in 2009 when the Pacers have $50 million tied up in JO, Murphy, Dunleavy and Tinsley while Diogu and Granger are free agents? $50 million dollars in those four players is a bad situation.

    With all the question marks surrounding the aforementioned players, there's no room for error. Tinsley has to get his drive and health back, JO can't miss 20 games a season, Daniels knee has to be okay, Murphy can't play soft, Dunleavy has to show more than just "High IQ", Foster must remain Foster and management can't fumble a draft pick away (Bender, Haskins, Brezec, Harrison) or make poor decisions (GS trade, resigning of Al at the expense of a 1st rounder, gambling on future "headcases", James White). More importantly, a decision on the coach has to be very well thought out, Danny Granger better pan out, Shawne Williams must at least improve as much as Granger did and Ike must be infinitely better than David Harrison.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Ok, now this I can definitely agree with. I hate that Jermaine's percentage has gone down this season, and I'd love to see it back up closer to 50%. The problem, to me, is that we've put him in a system where he has to shoot fadeaway jumpers to get shots.

    Jermaine's simply not as good in a static system as he is in a dynamic one. That's just all there is to it. At the same time, giving him the ball at 18' and telling him to make something happen is just as bad. Jermaine's a post player, but today's NBA doesn't allow post players much room if the rest of the team doesn't need guarding.
    Agreed, somewhat. I think it was JO's decision to develop the fade-away jumper as he announced it at the beginning of the '05 season. This was about the same time that Jeff mentioned that he had been working on his jumper over the summer and was going to attempt a few if they fit into the team's style of play. Well, needless to say, when JO started shooting his jumper, Jeff's shooting was out of the question (actually he had honed a pretty decent jumper from 8 ft or so).

    I thought, cool, JO has added a jumper to his repertoire, only to make him a double edge sword....good post game plus decent outside shot. However, he leaned heavily on his jumper and forgot to play his post game. When a guy his size can shoot in close or dunk with either hand, he would be almost unstoppable. However, repeatedly he leaned more and more towards his jumper and the Pacers lived and died almost in direct proportion to his shooting pct. from the outside.

    I'm not blaming the Pacer's miserable showing on JO but he certainly contributed to it in a big way by not going to his strength....low post play.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    We all get the picture, you dislike JO.

    the math you use however is so flawed it aint even funny any more.

    By those same maths Tinsley is "underpaid" in comparison


    JO is 31st in EFF rating, 3rd in blocks, 14th in double doubles (in only 69 games)


    If you fail to see why JO is getting what he gets, then why start the discussion about what he gets in the first place, next you gonna compare him to a bricklayer?

    Oh and btw, why do you compare him only to Murphleavy? is that because of the fact that your math would go limping out the window if you involved for instance Tinsley, Diogu, Quis, Granger?
    Man, talk about mixing apples and oranges!

    If you would have read all my posts you would certainly find that I don't dislike JO and have said so numerous times. I don't know whether I should be replying to such an irrational post for fear of wasting my time.

    I only started this thread because Dun and Murph were the only players being jumped on for being overpaid...not Tinsley, Ike, Quis or Granger. If they had been repeatedly hammered with the same crap non-stop, I would have posted in their favor. I was so sick and tired of hearing this crapola being repeated over and over that I made a point to show that those two were not the only players overpaid on a mediocre team.

    As I've said in numerous posts (if you would have read them, maybe you have and are conveniently omitting them), I think JO is a great player and it has only been in the last two seasons since he's relied on his jumper that he has failed as the leader of the team.

    If I had used my math on the four players you mentioned, the differences would have been that much more pronounced. If you would have bothered to done any math at all, you would have known this fact. Using the same method as I used with Dun and Murph, JO would be much more overpaid than with the other four. Nothing has gone flying out the window but your willingness to do a little research and come up with your own explanation instead of throwing a few haphazard, faulty statements out.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;577035
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    No one in the NBA is as overpaid as Murphy and Dunleavy are, no one. I rather have Jerome James' contract then Dunleavys or Murphys.

    LMAO @ Comparing those two to Jermaine O'Neal. Ohh and the FG%, what is he supposed to shoot when he is the only player on this team that demands that someone guards him. Our 1,2,and 3 stand around the 3 point line and brick shot after shot. Wilt would suck with all these dudes on his team. Jermaine's FG% was not that low until the trade was made and he was put on a team with Dunleavy and Murphy who NO ONE wants to guard and who cant do nothing by themselves.

    Put KG or Duncan on this team and we will see how amazing they would be doing.
    I could probably list at least 25 players who are being paid more than Dun with less production. However, I won't wast my time on someone who never looks at stats or salaries and only post in generalizations.

    Now, if you want to make it interesting, I am willing to wager one grand (payable at the next forum party) that I can list at least 25 players who were paid more than Dun in the last two seasons and have produced less. The salaries won't be identical, but say within .75 million either way.

    First of all, I have a question for the mods....is this legal and acceptable under your guidelines? If so, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is or will you continue to throw up unsubstantiated comments.

    The gauntlet has been thrown.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac View Post
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    No one in the NBA is as overpaid as Murphy and Dunleavy are, no one. I rather have Jerome James' contract then Dunleavys or Murphys.
    Peja Stojakovic has played 150 games over the last 3 years and will make 59 million over the next five years. When he does play he only plays at one end of the floor.

    Adonal Foyle will make $27 million over the next three years and did not play one minute for the Warriors in the playoffs.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Roferr, you are making good points which I pretty much agree with, but it seems this thread is getting semi-heated. Don't let it get too personal my friend.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    Roferr, you are making good points which I pretty much agree with, but it seems this thread is getting semi-heated. Don't let it get too personal my friend.
    Good advice. Thanks.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Peja Stojakovic has played 150 games over the last 3 years and will make 59 million over the next five years. When he does play he only plays at one end of the floor.

    Adonal Foyle will make $27 million over the next three years and did not play one minute for the Warriors in the playoffs.
    These are a couple great examples but the list goes on and on: Alan Houston, Mo Taylor, Milik Rose, Jalen Rose. This doesn't even comlete the Knicks roster, alone. How about Ratliff, P. Hardaway, KVH? I'm just getting started.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    I could probably list at least 25 players who are being paid more than Dun with less production. However, I won't wast my time on someone who never looks at stats or salaries and only post in generalizations.

    Now, if you want to make it interesting, I am willing to wager one grand (payable at the next forum party) that I can list at least 25 players who were paid more than Dun in the last two seasons and have produced less. The salaries won't be identical, but say within .75 million either way.

    First of all, I have a question for the mods....is this legal and acceptable under your guidelines? If so, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is or will you continue to throw up unsubstantiated comments.

    The gauntlet has been thrown.
    I could care less about a player putting up empty stats. I watch every Pacers game I dont need to see stats to prove to me who is a good player and who isnt.

    Troy Murphy actually had 15 and 10 for a few years I believe, now that actually seems that Troy Murphy is a beast, when in truth its just a whole bunch of empty stats he got to fill out his stat sheet.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    Aww shoot.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand SCENE!
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac View Post
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    I could care less about a player putting up empty stats. I watch every Pacers game I dont need to see stats to prove to me who is a good player and who isnt.

    Troy Murphy actually had 15 and 10 for a few years I believe, now that actually seems that Troy Murphy is a beast, when in truth its just a whole bunch of empty stats he got to fill out his stat sheet.
    I think it depends on your definition of empty stat, oh like say, Kobe going for 50 and the Lakers losing the game. If we were to go by your theory on empty stats, then all players have empty stats, includiing Jackson.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    For a decent backup, he's overpaid. There are a number of guys in the NBA who bring similar games to the table for less money. I'm not trying to single MDJ out. I think the Pacers possess a number of bad contracts, including his, that put them in a poor position. They are paying at least four backup quality players starter money. This has become a major concern of mine in the last 6 months. The six highest paid Pacers are JO, Murphy, Dunleavy, Daniels, Tinsley and Foster in that order. How many truely see those six guys as a major force? I see (to varying degrees) five borderline starters and an all-star type player. JO likely has 3 years left, Murphy has 4, Dunleavy has 4, Daniels has at least 2, Tinsley has 4 and Foster likely has 2. With Ike, Granger and Williams the only other significant players on the roster and all with team options after next season, at a certain point somebody is going to walk away a free agent. That doesn't even account for the other 6 roster spots that will need to be filled every season or future draft picks. Will it matter in 2009 when the Pacers have $50 million tied up in JO, Murphy, Dunleavy and Tinsley while Diogu and Granger are free agents? $50 million dollars in those four players is a bad situation.
    .
    I don't disagree but could live with Jo's and Dun's salary..Most teams have this kind of baggage because of the way contracts are structured. Too bad they don't do it the way the NFL does it. Where it gets over the top is with Murphy who you correctly state plays soft. We will never get much from him. I expect that JO will be gone soon leaving only two really overpaid players. I see lots of these guys going year by year and one by one. Hopefully we won't give Harrison another contract.

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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    And conversely, if your post player demands the ball and a large chunk of the offense to run thru him (or your coach installs that type of system)... then offensive flow goes out the window... and you become an easy team to defend if your centerpiece is not on a whole other level. You also castrate your guards and wing players to a large degree.

    Our perimeter game is never going to look good as long as we play that way.

    And chemistry will always falter with JO being used the way we do because he is just not good enough.
    Ok, I can agree with all of that. But it's not a statement about JO. No post player in the league (KG, Duncan, Shaq, Webber, Stoudamire, Bosh) is good enough to play that brand of basketball. The NBA game simply doesn't allow it. And like Peck pointed out, it really never did.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    I don't disagree but could live with Jo's and Dun's salary..Most teams have this kind of baggage because of the way contracts are structured. Too bad they don't do it the way the NFL does it. Where it gets over the top is with Murphy who you correctly state plays soft. We will never get much from him. I expect that JO will be gone soon leaving only two really overpaid players. I see lots of these guys going year by year and one by one. Hopefully we won't give Harrison another contract.
    If they resign Harrison at all, I'll have serious concerns.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Harrison's on a rookie contract as the last pick of the first round.

    He ain't even making much money.
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    Default Re: Overpaid Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
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    Harrison's on a rookie contract as the last pick of the first round.

    He ain't even making much money.
    As long as the Pacers remember that if they decide they want to keep him.

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