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Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

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  • #1

    Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

    I know I said I was tired of the Carlisle vs Pistons stories, but reading what the Pistons players are evidently saying behind his back, I am a littel steamed. Maybe George Irvine should have coached the Pistons the past two years, they would nopt have stiffed the playoffs then, and maybe they would not be so spolied.


    here are a series of articles on this topic.



    http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/drew22_20040522.htm


    DREW SHARP: In their minds: Pistons would have revolted

    May 22, 2004





    BY DREW SHARP
    FREE PRESS COLUMNIST




    Happily emancipated, those Pistons most disenchanted with Rick Carlisle's distrusting approach could have eagerly shoveled dirt over his freshly dug coaching grave. But team president Joe Dumars handed down the strict edict immediately after kicking Carlisle to the curb following consecutive 50-victory and divisional championship seasons.

    He didn't want to hear one detractive whisper regarding Carlisle, not wanting to make the perception any worse for the coach than it already was on the players' underground communications network.

    Let it go and move forward.

    But it's a year later and the particulars surrounding Carlisle's ouster have assumed urban legend status, a mystery with as many answers as Loch Ness monster sightings. It's the primary subplot to these Eastern Conference finals and as much as players casually dismiss the talk as a figment of media overreaction, it's evident that strong feelings remain.

    "Miss him?" Ben Wallace said. "Why should I miss him?"

    So, Ben, do any of the other guys miss him?

    "No."

    Tell us how you really feel, big fella.

    Chauncey Billups prefaced almost all response to questions regarding his former coach with the pat "Rick and I got along fine."

    When the interrogation pointedly turned toward any player involvement in Carlisle's dismissal, Billups tried deflecting attention from the locker room, saying that he "wasn't the general manager."

    Dumars pulled the trigger, but only after assessing that discontent over Carlisle's inflexibility in game management and generally poor communicative skills created an environment ripe for team dissension.

    The debate will rage on sports talk radio and Internet chat rooms throughout this series, but it's a moot argument.

    Suggesting that the bonus prize of these Eastern Conference finals is concrete affirmation as to who should have coached the Pistons this season is idiotic. The answer should have been clear long ago for the Carlisle-nistas with their heels stubbornly entrenched. He would not have lasted beyond Christmas before a players revolt relaunched his television career and left the Pistons with no other alternative but to elevate an assistant coach to an interim post.

    This wasn't an issue about Carlisle dissing his owner or not cooperating with the team's marketing department or needlessly treating organizational subordinates like garbage.

    This was a breakdown between coach and players and although it's convenient to assail pampered millionaires for their selfishness, the realities of NBA coaching is that control has its limits. You can teach and torment to the point of suffocation, but eventually a coach must cut the cord and trust his players' instincts and their willingness to incorporate the lessons imparted upon them.

    Carlisle wanted to script every second of a 48-minute game. Perhaps that's necessary in football, but the NBA demands some degree of spontaneity. But that requires trust and the bottom line was that Carlisle didn't trust his players to balance what coaches want them to do with what they know they need to do.

    And few things are more insulting to the highly skilled professional athlete.

    "I'm not getting into all that," Big Ben added. "That's for all of y'all to talk about. He's not our coach anymore. He's with the other team. And we're trying to beat him to get to the NBA Finals. That's all."

    One difference between Carlisle and Larry Brown was evident in the first quarter of Game 7 against New Jersey. Could you imagine Ben Wallace feeling comfortable enough in the half-court offense to take mid-range shots that the opposition gave him last year with Carlisle?

    The two barely exchanged two words last season because Carlisle made it clear that he didn't trust Wallace's ability to become even a modest offensive contributor.

    In Game 7, Wallace made eight of his 10 attempts from the floor, but more telling was that he wasn't averse to taking shots off the early open looks he got. He made all three of his field-goal attempts in the first quarter when the game's outcome remained in question.

    They'll exchange handshakes and other cordialities, publicly assuring everyone that there's a singular focus on making the NBA Finals. But nobody's buying the pleasantries. The next two weeks will be defined as much by who's beaten as well as who won.




    http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/...2_20040522.htm

    PERRY A. FARRELL: In their hearts: Pistons love it without Carlisle

    May 22, 2004





    BY PARRY FARRELL
    FREE PRESS COLUMNIST




    If you don't want to hear the truth in its rawest, purest form, don't ask Ben Wallace a question.

    Ask someone who might be politically correct, like Chauncey Billups or Corliss Williamson or Richard Hamilton.

    For that matter, don't ask Rasheed Wallace, either.

    But a day before the biggest series in the Eastern Conference, which features more subplots than a weeklong airing of "General Hospital," Ben Wallace was asked whether he missed Rick Carlisle, the coach who guided the Pistons to 100 victories over the previous two seasons and a trip to the Eastern Conference finals.

    Understand, the question was from a television reporter new to the scene and probably not wise to the ways of the tell-it-like-it-is Wallace.

    In typical fashion, Wallace looked at the reporter and said, "I don't miss nobody. Why would I miss him?"

    When it was suggested that perhaps he liked playing for Carlisle, Wallace replied: "I like playing basketball. I'd miss the game if it were taken away from me. Coaches and players come and go. I don't think I built that big of a bond with Coach Carlisle that I actually miss him."

    When asked whether any of his teammates missed Carlisle, Wallace's reply was simple: "No, this is a business."

    Then he added: "He's going to be excited, he's going to want to win, and we're the same way. We have pride. He has another job. We have another job to do. They're in our way, and we're trying to get a win."

    Is that simple enough?

    Understand that players are loyal to payday, their children, teammates, playing time and winning.

    Ben Wallace's teammates said they didn't have a problem with Carlisle and they communicated with him when it was necessary, but once the organization decided to fire Carlisle and hire Larry Brown last summer, there was no outcry over why the coach that produced 100 victories in two seasons had been dismissed.

    "I enjoy playing for Coach Brown," Hamilton said. "I think he has made the game fun for me at both ends of the floor. I'm satisfied with the situation here. I didn't have a problem with Rick. If there was something I needed to know I would go up and communicate with him and that was it. Last year was my first year with him and I was only with him for seven or eight months. He's a different guy. He's definitely different."

    Ben Wallace, the Pistons' leader on the floor, had problems with Carlisle as far back as the first-round playoff series with Toronto in Carlisle's first year. Antonio Davis, a former Pacer, had a couple of good games to help tie the series at 2, and some comments were made that irritated Wallace. He won't elaborate, but he doesn't need to.

    The two-time defensive player of the year finished second this season to Ron Artest in the coaches and media voting. Carlisle campaigned for Artest. When he was the Pistons' coach he made phone calls on Wallace's behalf.

    Don't think losing his title as the best defender to Artest has been lost on Wallace, or the campaigning that helped pry it away from him.

    Wallace was asked whom would he have picked if he had a vote for the award.

    "You mean, if I couldn't vote for myself?" he said. "If I could vote for myself, I'd vote for myself. He'd probably be the next guy in line. The things he does at the defensive end really helps that team and gets that team going.

    "Any time a great defender is looking at another defender, you're going to see some things similar to yourself. There aren't many guys who are going to take it upon themselves to go out and be a defender first and worry about the offense later."

    But Billups said: "That's definitely motivation for him. Artest is a good defender, but I don't think he has the effect on the game defensively that Ben Wallace does. No way. No how. I know he'll be extra motivated for that. I want him to be aggressive. When he has the opportunity to take it (offensively), I want him to take it. I know defensively he's going to be out there to make a point."

    Wallace, of course, is still a great defender, but his role has changed. Instead of standing in the corner and not getting in the way offensively under Carlisle, Wallace has been asked to take an active role.

    "I watched tape of Indiana playing him, and they never guarded him," Brown said. "Toronto didn't guard him either, and that's Kevin O'Neill, who coached with Rick. I just think we need everybody to be aggressive offensively."

    Joe Dumars, the Pistons' president of basketball operations, recalled how "we'd be out there 4-on-5 or 3-on-5 and it's tough to play like that," when he reflected on the offense under Carlisle.

    "He has to take the shot and give us a chance," Dumars said. "Ron and Ben is another subplot. All the subplots are great, but I think they'll be secondary."

    Because Carlisle coached most of this season's Pistons last season, Wallace was asked if that would help the Pacers.

    "Rick hasn't coached this team," he said. "This is a different team. We've made a lot of changes. We've added a couple of guys and some guys' roles have changed, so we're different than when he was here."

    No longer is Ben asked to stand in a corner and score off offensive rebounds or lob dunks. In Game 7 against New Jersey, he scored the Pistons' first two baskets and finished with 18 points on 8-for-10 shooting.

    "Coming into this season, my mind was already made up that I was going to go out and take more chances and take more shots because the coaching staff encouraged me to go out there and take more chances and take more shots," Wallace said. "Coach has been in support of it."

    And so have his teammates.

    "He's the first one here and the last to leave," Billups said. "He shoots more than anybody. He can make those shots. It's just a matter of him becoming more comfortable. . . . He's not used to doing it in game situations, but you can see he's becoming more and more comfortable."
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  • #2
    Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

    http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/...2_20040522.htm


    So, what gives in Detroit? Pacers say they love Carlisle

    May 22, 2004





    BY HELENE ST. JAMES
    FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER




    INDIANAPOLIS -- If only Rick Carlisle would just curse the Pistons to Pluto, this would be so much easier.

    Carlisle was unceremoniously fired by the Pistons last May after taking over an unremarkable team two years earlier and turning them into an Eastern Conference contender. Since then, he has treated the entire incident, publicly anyway, with a diplomatic approach that would make Kofi Annan green. In September, Carlisle was hired to coach the Pacers, and tonight, the Pacers tip off against the Pistons in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference finals. Nothing like a story that comes full circle.

    Carlisle continues to say the correct things about his time in Detroit -- namely that it was a great opportunity for him -- while shrugging off accusations that he was fired because he's arrogant, didn't say hello to secretaries, or didn't get along with players.

    His new players, though, wonder what in the world really happened.

    Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal said Friday: "It's funny, because I (saw) some of the quotes from some of the Detroit players talking about the difference between Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle, and they were saying he didn't talk to the players, and he's been totally opposite to us. I can't really vouch to what went on in Detroit; I can only vouch to what goes on in Indiana, and he is a great coach.

    "When you hear so many things, you wonder why he was fired, winning 50 games two years. You wonder, what's the personality? But . . . he's made this team -- he's really picked up where Isiah (Thomas) left off. He's put the finishing touches on this team, and I'm very excited for him. I think he should have won coach of the year. People don't know how extremely tough this team is to coach because of the different personalities."

    Al Harrington, who has a few friends among the Pistons, said: "All those guys loved him, to be honest. Not one guy had a bad thing to say. They loved that Rick gave them a lot of rest -- something they did not get with Larry Brown."

    NOTEBOOK: Harrington wouldn't name names, but there's a camaraderie between a few Pistons and Pacers that is going to get sorely tested.

    "We have a couple of friends on that team, a couple of mutual friends, and they've talked a lot of trash about how they want us, and what they're going to do to us," Harrington said. "So, it's going to be a good series." . . .

    O'Neal's left eye is almost back to normal, three days after he suffered a scratched cornea when he was poked by Caron Butler's finger during a block in Tuesday's Game 6 at Miami. "It's a lot better," O'Neal said. "It's not an issue." . . .

    Reggie Miller has cult-figure status with the Indiana franchise, but at 38, his approach is fairly low-key. "He's certainly made it clear this isn't his team," Austin Croshere said. "He's kind of a supplementary piece to Jermaine and other guys."





    http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/...2_20040522.htm


    MICHAEL ROSENBERG: On the court: Pistons different under Brown

    May 22, 2004







    BY MICHAEL ROSENBERG
    FREE PRESS COLUMNIST




    Hey, Rick. These aren't the Pistons you remember.

    And we're not saying they're better or worse off without you. For the moment, we'll let everybody else in the Midwest argue about that.

    When the Pistons fired Carlisle last season and hired Larry Brown, they replaced one of the NBA's best coaches with another. But although Carlisle and Brown are both extremely successful, they approach the job in very different ways.

    Think of Carlisle as the architect of a skyscraper, designing every piece in the most efficient, orderly and functional way, down to the last ashtray.

    Think of Brown as the designer of a botanical garden, planting flowers here and bushes there and trees over there, watching how they interact, understanding that the whole scheme is always changing.

    Carlisle stood by his system; Brown constantly fiddles. With Carlisle, players knew how much they'd play; Brown's playing rotation varies by the game. Carlisle preferred a half-court game, where his players ran his offense as he saw fit; Brown likes to cause disorder with his defense, giving the Pistons the freedom to create in the open court.

    Carlisle called a ton of plays; Brown calls some but is more likely to let players figure things out.

    There are only four teams left in the NBA playoffs, and these men are coaching two of them. So it's not a question of who's right and who's wrong. Here, though, is how the Pistons have changed since they fired Carlisle:


    They run. This is the most noticeable difference. Some coaches question whether a team can win a championship by emphasizing the fast break, but it's the style that most fans and players prefer.
    "When they made the change and I spoke to Larry, he said the one thing he'd heard us say is that we'd like to play a little bit more up-tempo," Pistons point guard Chauncey Billups said. "He wanted us to have that opportunity. He told us, 'We're going to try to do what it takes to see that you guys are happy, and run up and down and have fun out there.' "


    They hit the offensive glass. This is a crucial decision for every NBA coach. If more players try for offensive rebounds, that means fewer players get back on defense to stop the fast break.
    Carlisle never wanted to get into a run-and-gun game, so he chose to have more players run back on defense. The result was that even though the Pistons had Ben Wallace, the league's best rebounder, they were among the worst rebounding teams in the NBA. But they also forced other teams into a slower pace, which is why Carlisle made that choice.

    Brown wants to run, and he loves second-chance hoops.

    "It's not to the point now where we're worried about getting back on defense," Pistons forward Corliss Williamson said. "That's something we're expected to do, but (Brown) also wants us to get on the offensive boards."


    Everybody shoots. Brown made an adjustment that, on the surface, seems odd. He has asked one of his best scorers, Billups, to shoot less, and asked one of his least effective scorers, Wallace, to shoot more.
    Why? Because Brown has an unyielding belief that basketball is the ultimate team game. Every player can contribute -- and by doing so, they make it easier for everybody else.

    Guard Richard Hamilton, the team's leading scorer, has learned to give up the ball early in possessions, with the idea that he might get it back, in better position, later.

    It helps that the team now has Rasheed Wallace, whose combination of size and skill give the Pistons a different dimension. If Carlisle had had a player like that, he would have called a bunch of plays for him, as he has with Indiana star Jermaine O'Neal.

    "Last year, (opponents) could just focus on the perimeter," Hamilton said. "When we played New Jersey last year, that's what they did. This year we can go inside."

    The change has been biggest for Billups. He's part of the new breed of "scoring point guards," but Brown is from the old breed. He thinks a point guard's main job is to distribute the ball. Billups has tried to meld his own aggressive nature with Brown's philosophy.

    "I think I got it figured out sometimes," Billups said. "And then sometimes, I don't. It's a battle. Just think: Y'all, as writers, all your career, you write one way. Then you've got to change and write in a different style. You can do it, but it's a transition."

    Ain't that the truth.


    The green light is on. Everybody can shoot. Because Carlisle called so many plays, and had such a specific idea of what he wanted from each player, there wasn't much room for creativity.
    Ben Wallace is one example (last year, he wasn't supposed to shoot), and Williamson is another.

    "Last year I was strictly posting up," Williamson said. "Now, when I don't take an open shot, (Brown) gets on me. It's more of a free-flowing offense. You may have a certain system that you're running out there, but within that system, you have the ability to do some freestyle things.


    They trap. In their effort to disrupt the opponent and force a faster pace, the Pistons often send two defenders at a ballhandler. They didn't do it much early in the season, but once they acquired Rasheed Wallace, this became a staple.
    They also play some zone defense -- not a lot, but some.

    "Last year we just played man-to-man," Billups said.

    So there you have it -- "different styles," said Pistons president Joe Dumars. And the great thing is that, with a few adjustments, Carlisle's Indiana Pacers play a lot like Carlisle's Pistons did.

    While most of us look at this series as Rick vs. The Guys That Canned Him -- and let's face it, that's a heck of a story -- hoops junkies will watch to see if the Pistons' new approach to the game can beat their old one.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

      Very disappointing, indeed
      ...Still "flying casual"
      @roaminggnome74

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

        Well, I guess since the Pistons are talking trash now they're practically Finals bound. See: Lakers. ed:

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

          I don't think that what the players said was that bad. I thought it was mostly the press playing it up. Especially Drew. That was a poor article.
          "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

          "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

            I will guarentee one things, by this time next season half the Pistons players will be ready to strangle Larry Brown, he wears on guys, with his constant harping. Great coach, but he wears the players out after two seasons

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

              I agree with Arcadian. The comments from players were pretty innocuous, it was more the media speculation that was bad.

              No one really knows exactly why Carlisle was fired. Here are just some of the theories:

              - His stubborn rotations (starting Michael Curry all season)

              - Not playing young players (Prince and Okur)

              - Not developing/teaching young players (it was rumored that Prince and Okur didn't even practice with the team)

              - Poor relationships with players

              - A better coach was available

              - Feuds with management (CEO Tom Wilson and/or owner Bill Davidson)

              - He never wanted to stay in Detroit long-term (probably wanting to stay through the last year of his contract and then reunite with Bird), so he wouldn't sign an extension and Dumars didn't want a lame duck coach

              Lots of those rumors were probably made up. The weird thing was that the press conference to announce the firing was very amicable, and Carlisle kept expressing his thanks to Dumars for giving him his first head coaching opportunity. That, and some other things, lead me to believe that the final reason I listed (coupled with ruffling some feathers with management and the availability of Brown) is closest to the truth.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

                http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/8733096.htm
                By Jon Krawczynski

                of The Associated Press

                INDIANAPOLIS -- Like many in the basketball world, Jermaine O'Neal was puzzled when he heard the Detroit Pistons fired Rick Carlisle after 100 wins and two Central Division titles in two seasons.

                "You wonder why he was fired after winning 50 games for two straight years," O'Neal said.

                Carlisle insists there's no grudge. After all, if it hadn't happened last summer, Carlisle wouldn't be in Indiana preparing his Pacers for an Eastern Conference finals showdown with those same Pistons.

                "My memory's programmed to last about as long as an egg timer," Carlisle said. "I choose to remember the good things that happened, the opportunity and what that meant to me and my family. When it was over, it was about focusing positive energy on the next thing that was going to happen. I have not dwelled on it much at all."

                Jamaal Tinsley doesn't buy it.

                "It means a lot," the Pacers point guard said. "Knowing he just left there, what he did for them. It means a lot to him. He's with us now and he's done a great job here."

                Game 1 is Saturday in Indianapolis, where the Pacers have won 13 straight games.

                Carlisle replaced former coach Isiah Thomas in September. He immediately instilled a sense of discipline and maturity to a young Pacers team that sorely needed both after being bounced in the first round of the playoffs for three straight seasons.

                The result was a franchise-record and NBA-best 61 wins during the regular season and their first two playoff series wins since 2000.

                If there were any doubts as to his coaching ability after Carlisle was fired by Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars, they are long gone now.

                When asked about facing Carlisle in the finals after firing him, Dumars said, "This series is about moving on to the NBA Finals. Everything else is secondary."

                Pistons forward Ben Wallace said there were no problems under Carlisle, but he thought Dumars just couldn't pass up the chance to get Larry Brown.

                "We played hard every night, and everybody respected him," Wallace said. "I don't think he had any problems with the team, I just think Joe realized if you got a Hall of Famer like Larry Brown, and he's available, that's an opportunity you can't miss."

                Brown picked up right where Carlisle left off, and the team blossomed after trading for Rasheed Wallace in February. They finished the season 20-6 and had the second-best record in the East.

                Long an outspoken critic of the "quick-fix" coaching change that many teams employ these days, Brown said everything seems to have worked out for the best.

                "I hate to see any of this in our league, but the neat thing is the guy has been able to land on his feet and he's done an amazing job," Brown said. "But I don't like to see that happen to anybody."

                Indiana won three of the four meetings against the Pistons in the regular season, but all three wins came before Detroit acquired Rasheed Wallace.

                In their first matchup with Wallace, the Pistons rolled to a 79-61 win, prompting many to say the Pistons were the new team to beat.

                Pacers veteran Reggie Miller almost agrees.

                "They have the mental edge because of the last win they had," he said.

                Indiana has plenty of incentives for beating the Pistons and advancing to the NBA Finals for the first time since 2000, and Carlisle is at the top of the list.

                O'Neal said he doesn't think Carlisle got enough credit for the job he did this year.

                "I can't really vouch for what went on in Detroit, I can only vouch for what went on in Indiana," O'Neal said. "He is a great coach. People don't know how extremely tough this team is to coach because of all the different personalities. When you take a team from 48 wins to 61 wins, that's up there, but nobody really talked much about him."

                That's just fine with Carlisle. He would much rather have the spotlight on his players.

                Carlisle said he was already tired of hearing about his connections to Detroit and any perceived need for vindication.

                "I just don't see it the way other people see it," Carlisle said.

                "The news value is there, but intrinsically I don't see it."
                I think a lot of the 'attitude' in the articles is the slant that the reporter puts on it. Sometimes it is the words the writers themselves use. Sometimes it is the quotes they neglect to use. And sometimes it is even the quotes they do use. Context is an important thing. Just seeing the actual question the player is responding to would help.

                -Bball
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

                  IMO, I think the biggest difference between Carlisle then and Carlisle now is that he was pretty stupid with the offense, relying way too much on Billups and Hamilton (and Stack) and getting less scoring from the frontline than Larry Brown; while Larry has worked on every player's weaknesses... increasing Rip's efficency, improving Ben's offense, working with Billups to become more of a traditional point guard, etc. Rick has been brilliant here but he wasn't too successful with Detroit in the playoffs since they were basically playing 3 or 4 on 5 on the offensive end. Basically, Rick played everyone there to their strengths rather than making the whole better - and while that had success in Detroit, he's been much much better with a more traditional inside-out approach thanks to JO and Al's post games and Ron's brilliance on the perimeter.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

                    Enough is enough! Unfortunately, the reporters are going to keep harping on this because it creates hype and intrigue and they are trying to get ratings. Especially ESPN, I mean it is ridiculous the way they were hyping this up before Detroits game 7 with Jersey! Its really sickening if you think about it. So we have to listen to this for two more weeks and then after no matter who wins. Lets face it this will come up everytime these two teams meet in the playoffs as long as these two coaches are there.

                    I can't give enough credit to Rick and our players for the way they have handled it. Rick is a bigger person then I am, I would want to fight back but he just refuses to drop to that level. And lets face it everybody's happy with how it worked out. Detroit is singing Larry brown's praises (at least for now, we all know his history) and they have had a successful season. Rick has said how happy he is to be back in Indy and he has obviously been successful, and our players are happy with him as well. So lets have this series be about who the better team is and not about who got the better end of the coaching changes! Thats why you play the games, and may the best team win.

                    It also has to be said that Detroit has way more talent this year just by adding Rasheed, we'll never know how Rick would have done with Sheed on his team and to think this series is going to mean anything looking back is foolish, its all about looking ahead. These two teams are likely to be battling it out for years to come with the young roster's full of talent they have.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

                      I don't think they said anything bad. I was actually listening to the interview with Ben Wallace, That quote from Drew Sharp is taken out of context. So what if he won't miss Rick. How does that make him ungrateful?

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

                        The Pistons wouldn't have made the miraculous turnaround over the past two seasons without their coach. His style is what made them into a disciplined team that over-achieved the past two years!

                        They should be thanking him for the respect he brought back to the Pistons. I hope we kick the living crap out of the Pistons tonight and in the Series and shove it up their respects arse's.

                        Water

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

                          I think the only Pistons with legit beefs were Ben Wallace and Tayshaun Prince. Prince, because Carlisle blatently played an infirior player in front of him, and Ben, because Carlisle basically told him to dominate on one end, and strand in a corner in the other. Ben isn't a great scorer, but the man has athletic ability, and he proved that last series.

                          I really don't blame Ben Wallace for holding a grudge, because his coach had no confidence in his ability to develop as a player.

                          I will also say this: Larry Brown's coaching style is better suited to win in the playoffs, at least with the Pistons. Carlisle squeezed a lot of regular season wins out of us, but when it came playoff time, we really had to struggle to advance, because our team was unprepared to make adjustments.

                          Because of the freedom he has given our guys, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, and Chauncy Billups aren't specialists anymore. They're all very good all-around players. Chauncey has learned to run the offense, Rip has become a good passer, and Ben has become a guy that you HAVE to respect in the 10-foot range. I really liked Carlisle, but we had leveled out with him. We needed a guy that could come in and force our players to improve on their weaknesses.

                          Oh, and UB, I'm a little dissapointed that you continue to post articles from Drew Sharp. He's a world-class scumbag that feeds off of negativity.

                          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

                            I think its unfair to say Rick never would have encouraged Ben to develop an offensive game, he was only there 2 years and in that time Ben became an all-star b/c of Rick playing to his defensive strengths and molding the system to all the players strengths. If Rick had stayed I'm sure he would have worked on Ben's offense this year.

                            Prince was a rookie no different then Darko not playing this year, lets face it Larry brown is not planning to play Darko this year b/c its not the best for him as a player or for the team. Ditto for Rick and Prince. Prince is a better player for waiting and working his rookie year and Rick did that b/c he honestly believes it makes a player better in the future to have to work for the time they get. It is idiotic to believe Rick didn't let Tay practice, I mean come on! That was just another part of the spin campaign that came out after a controversial firing.

                            I have to agree that the Pistons were not a conteneder before Joe hired Rick and got the players he had, all (Joe, Rick and the players)deserve credit for the turn around but to slam Rick is to act like they had success despite their coach. It is classless to play into the medias hands the way the players have over this issue.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Pistons players, what an ungrateful bunch of spoiled brats

                              I think its unfair to say Rick never would have encouraged Ben to develop an offensive game, he was only there 2 years and in that time Ben became an all-star b/c of Rick playing to his defensive strengths and molding the system to all the players strengths. If Rick had stayed I'm sure he would have worked on Ben's offense this year
                              Rick Carlisle ran plays every time downcourt. He NEVER ran a play in 2 years for Ben Wallace. He also told Ben specifically NOT TO SHOOT. I think thats a pretty good sign Ben's offense wasn't going to be on his agenda.

                              Prince was a rookie no different then Darko not playing this year, lets face it Larry brown is not planning to play Darko this year b/c its not the best for him as a player or for the team. Ditto for Rick and Prince. Prince is a better player for waiting and working his rookie year and Rick did that b/c he honestly believes it makes a player better in the future to have to work for the time they get. It is idiotic to believe Rick didn't let Tay practice, I mean come on! That was just another part of the spin campaign that came out after a controversial firing.
                              Um, a 22-year old 4-year starter out of Kentucky is no different than an 18-year old kid from a 2nd-rate European league who can barely speak english?

                              And yes, I will go out on that brittle branch and declare that Prince could have bettered Michael Curry's 4 ppg and 2 rpg as a starting SF....

                              It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                              Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                              Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                              NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                              Comment

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