Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Bring on the Global Warming!

  1. #1
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Bring on the Global Warming!

    This is fun. Given, it's Spiegel. But it attributes the info well, so if you want to quibble you at least have sources.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...481684,00.html

    It's long, I grant. But the central premise is that global warming would be a good thing for the earth and for humanity.

    Read and discuss.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  2. #2
    Member Mr.ThunderMakeR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    1,094

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    I cant read German

    Edit: I think your link is broken

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Frankfort, IN
    Posts
    9,096

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Well, I don't know what the article said but there are a few climate facts that don't get a lot of play in the global warming discussion.

    It's a fact that the average interglacial period has peak temperatures of 4.5-6.5 degrees C higher than the Earth's temperature is now.

    It's a fact that the Earth's population is increasing

    It's a fact that people need to eat

    It's a fact that unless some revolutionary food production process is developed that we'll need more arable land to feed the growing population

    It's a fact that with global warming more land would be capable of growing crops.

    If global warming occurs - which I think is a virtual lock whether people have anything to do with it or not, it'll suck for folks who live on coasts but from a global perspective it'll be a good thing - more food production, fewer environmentally related deaths, projections are for higher GDP ...

    All this assumes that global warming doesn't completely run away with, say, a 20 degree C temperature increase. Then there's no telling what will happen - we can project what will happen up to a 12-14 degree increase by looking at the Earth's fossil record.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  4. #4
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Venice, CA
    Posts
    9,690

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    DK - Maybe you can shed a little light on this. In two different classes, an Astronomy class and a Meteorology class, the issue of a "runaway" greenhouse effect was brought up. In both instances, they were talking about Venus and it's atmosphere not being in balance until the entire planet was covered in clouds and the surface could not support liquid water.

    What are the connections to this issue?
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  5. #5
    Old school Dab or new Dab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Gosport
    Age
    41
    Posts
    878
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Perhaps this link would work better:

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...481684,00.html

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Frankfort, IN
    Posts
    9,096

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    DK - Maybe you can shed a little light on this. In two different classes, an Astronomy class and a Meteorology class, the issue of a "runaway" greenhouse effect was brought up. In both instances, they were talking about Venus and it's atmosphere not being in balance until the entire planet was covered in clouds and the surface could not support liquid water.

    What are the connections to this issue?
    None unless you remove Earth's magnetic field and move it about 50 million miles closer to the sun.

    What happens on Earth with high CO2 levels and much higher temps is that the world basically turns into a rain forest - which means plant life that pulls carbon out of the atmosphere. Of course we have lots of people now so part of the rain forest won't happen - I don't know exactly what the impact of that might be but we know there won't be a runaway carbon cycle on Earth unless we somehow sterilize the Earth - take algae and phyto-plankton out of the ocean (which also process CO2 into O2) and keep plants from sucking up the Carbon.

    So whoever brought that up is pretty lost if they think there's much chance of it happening here.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  7. #7
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Venice, CA
    Posts
    9,690

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    No, it was never mentioned in terms of "this could happen to us" it was continually mentioned in terms of contrast. As in Venus and earth developed similarly but one had conditions for water to exist in all 3 physical states (solid, liquid, gas), and the other may have at one time but doesn't now.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Frankfort, IN
    Posts
    9,096

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No, it was never mentioned in terms of "this could happen to us" it was continually mentioned in terms of contrast. As in Venus and earth developed similarly but one had conditions for water to exist in all 3 physical states (solid, liquid, gas), and the other may have at one time but doesn't now.
    The big difference between Earth and a lot of planets - and the main reason I'm no longer convinced that there are a ton of planets out there with life (at least life like ours) - is our magnetic field. Venus doesn't have one. Neither does Mars. The gas giants do but life there will have to be very different from ours.

    That allows much, much more heat and radiation and makes those planets much more susceptible to planetary sterilization when the sun is more active.

    Of course the magnetic field is interesting because it stops every now and then and reverses itself. Some folks think that process is starting right now. Earth can handle these short term interruptions but I don't care to think what might happen if it stopped permanently - maybe the effects would be minimal but the Earth's atmosphere could also ionize off over a few million years.

    This is the kind of thing that worries me and where I think people could really screw up our planet. The Van Allen Belts - particularly the inner one - cause a lot of problems for satellites. A scientist involved with the space program developed a way (in theory anyway) to pretty much eliminate the inner belt to help satellites (since the belts get real active during solar flares and emit a lot of energy when they absorb and deflect the increase radiation/energy). We start screwing around with those kind of planetary forces and one of these days we will need a new planet.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  9. #9
    Member Kat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lafayette
    Age
    32
    Posts
    781

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    it'll suck for folks who live on coasts but from a global perspective it'll be a good thing
    According to this link, "Approximately 400 million people live within 20 m of sea level and within 20 km of a coast, worldwide." That's about 6% of the world's population, which is a lot of people to relocate.
    Dean Winchester: It takes two to... you know, have hardcore sex.

  10. #10
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Man, I hate the heat. Just this morning I got myself a nice glass of iced tea and sat out on the porch to read the paper. I made the tea just like always, filled the glass up with ice, then poured in the tea into the glass before heading out. I realized I forgot my glasses, though, so I put the tea on top of the paper and went inside. When I came back out, the sun had melted all of the ice, which then made my glass run over! My entire paper was ruined because the water level of my glass rose due to melting ice!

    Darned global warming! If only ice were less dense than water, which would allow ice to melt into the cup without raising the water level. Maybe some top-notch scientists could create something similar through advanced computer modeling.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  11. #11
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dabney Prood View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Perhaps this link would work better:

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...481684,00.html
    Interesting, I didn't realize they archived stuff that quickly.

    I'll see about finding a copy... it really was a good article.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  12. #12
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    According to this link, "Approximately 400 million people live within 20 m of sea level and within 20 km of a coast, worldwide." That's about 6% of the world's population, which is a lot of people to relocate.
    From your link:

    "In fact, a major conclusion of our study is that the available data are still inadequate to permit quantitatively precise global estimates of the number of people likely to be affected by plausible levels of sea level rise or storm surges in the coastal zone."
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  13. #13
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,961

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    According to this link, "Approximately 400 million people live within 20 m of sea level and within 20 km of a coast, worldwide." That's about 6% of the world's population, which is a lot of people to relocate.
    How about adding to that number the whole AREAS and REGIONS that lie METERS beneath sea level (hint, hint)?

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Frankfort, IN
    Posts
    9,096

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How about adding to that number the whole AREAS and REGIONS that lie METERS beneath sea level (hint, hint)?

    Regards,

    Mourning
    Not to make light of it but you guys can handle it. So can NY, Miami, Baltimore - developed areas will build sea walls while 3rd world folks will do what they've been doing the last 10,000 years - move back up the beach.

    It's not like sea level rise is a new thing. It's been going on for at least 10-12 thousand years at about an inch per century. There are plenty of ancient cities now underwater as evidence (some because of earthquakes, some from rising seas). The only debate now is the rate and if Greenland melts out and raises the seas 20 feet (not meters). Based on every other interglacial period (I think - I know it's true of the last one) this was going to happen anyway.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  15. #15
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,961

    Default Re: Bring on the Global Warming!

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not to make light of it but you guys can handle it. So can NY, Miami, Baltimore - developed areas will build sea walls while 3rd world folks will do what they've been doing the last 10,000 years - move back up the beach.

    It's not like sea level rise is a new thing. It's been going on for at least 10-12 thousand years at about an inch per century. There are plenty of ancient cities now underwater as evidence (some because of earthquakes, some from rising seas). The only debate now is the rate and if Greenland melts out and raises the seas 20 feet (not meters). Based on every other interglacial period (I think - I know it's true of the last one) this was going to happen anyway.
    Probably. I doubt that a country like Bangladesh can cope with it though. It is one of the most densely populated countries on earth and has a gigantic riverdelta running through a really big part of the country is very poor, has few friendly neighbours and has had several huge floodings with thousands and thousands of casualties each time in the past few decades.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •