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Thread: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    I'm a newbie, so I'm not aware of how bad it was in the past. I was just saying that this thread started with a simple Lakers & JO talk, slowly ideas/proposals of what we should get for JO from the Lakers started to develop, which is fine and dandy, but then proposals from other teams and 3 way trades that might make sense, but most likely not gonna happen appear, and the thread starts to become a trade thread.

    If that's the case then what's to stop any thread that mentions a Pacer going to another team becoming a trade thread.... there's nothing wrong with discussing players you would like to get from the team, but when it starts becoming less discussion and more trade ideas with 3-4 teams, then it's iffy
    Pwee, It's funny you call yourself a newbie, I don't consider you a "newbie" really, and I hope my post didn't seem like I was "talking down" in any way.

    I agree that this is a pretty good thread. It started with a journalistic source and is staying within the parameters of the article. There's also good discussion on pros and cons. This thread is in the top 5% of threads that go in this direction.

    I really just posted what I wrote so that the whole community would know that it's not such a great idea to start new threads in the main forum for every wild trade idea we have. If the issue comes up naturally in conversation, as it has here, that's a different matter.

    But then, I'm not a mod, I just post here.
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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Look, I am a Laker fan, and for them to get where they need to be they cannot give up Odom in a deal for JO. I think JO is slightly better than LO now, but the move is lateral. Besides, LO is just good enough to get the Pacers to a 7 or 8 seed. So what? Bynum is the guy the Lakers will look to put in a deal. Brown only has 1 year left on contract, while Radmanovic would have to be the throw in. In my opinion, the Lakers may offer two #1s, but not this years. They will offer the 2008 and 2010 #1. I do not feel JO has more value than this. Nobody wants to make lateral moves. If a deal is made, it is usually because one team is trying to move in another direction, the other team in another. Maybe this trade will happen, maybe it won't, but I promise you this: Odom will not be involved.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    Look, I am a Laker fan, and for them to get where they need to be they cannot give up Odom in a deal for JO. I think JO is slightly better than LO now, but the move is lateral. Besides, LO is just good enough to get the Pacers to a 7 or 8 seed. So what? Bynum is the guy the Lakers will look to put in a deal. Brown only has 1 year left on contract, while Radmanovic would have to be the throw in. In my opinion, the Lakers may offer two #1s, but not this years. They will offer the 2008 and 2010 #1. I do not feel JO has more value than this. Nobody wants to make lateral moves. If a deal is made, it is usually because one team is trying to move in another direction, the other team in another. Maybe this trade will happen, maybe it won't, but I promise you this: Odom will not be involved.
    Pacers wouldn't and shouldn't take any deal that includes Radmon. It's Odom/Bynum/pick or no deal I would guess.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    Look, I am a Laker fan, and for them to get where they need to be they cannot give up Odom in a deal for JO. I think JO is slightly better than LO now, but the move is lateral. Besides, LO is just good enough to get the Pacers to a 7 or 8 seed. So what? Bynum is the guy the Lakers will look to put in a deal. Brown only has 1 year left on contract, while Radmanovic would have to be the throw in. In my opinion, the Lakers may offer two #1s, but not this years. They will offer the 2008 and 2010 #1. I do not feel JO has more value than this. Nobody wants to make lateral moves. If a deal is made, it is usually because one team is trying to move in another direction, the other team in another. Maybe this trade will happen, maybe it won't, but I promise you this: Odom will not be involved.
    If that's all you're willing to give up, that's fine. But it won't get you Jermaine, and it won't get you KG. Either team is going to want (and be able to get) a lot more than that if they decide to trade their franchise player.
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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Why would the Lakers want the 2007 pick? With this trade they would not
    be in a rebuild mode like the Pacers. I could see a JO for Brown,Bynum and
    two number ones, maybe. I am not impressed with Bynum, but he will be
    good center someday. He is not star material.
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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by skyfire View Post
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    A twist upon this one, which I like but leaves us perilously short at PG, throw in Foster + Harrison for Farmar and Evans :

    Lakers send Kwame + Odom + Bynum + Farmar + Evans
    Lakers receive JO + Tinsley + Foster + Harrison

    Pacers send JO + Tinsley + Foster + Harrison
    Pacers receive JRich + Kwame + Bynum + Farmar + Evans

    Warriors send JRich
    Warriors receive Odom

    Would make us very young, but free up minutes in the front court for Williams, Bynum and Ike and we gain a young PG in Farmar and another expiring deal in Evans.
    I think that the Lakers will offer that first to the TWolves to get KG....which IMHO is tempting.

    I think the best offer we get is the one without Odom.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    Look, I am a Laker fan, and for them to get where they need to be they cannot give up Odom in a deal for JO. I think JO is slightly better than LO now, but the move is lateral. Besides, LO is just good enough to get the Pacers to a 7 or 8 seed. So what? Bynum is the guy the Lakers will look to put in a deal. Brown only has 1 year left on contract, while Radmanovic would have to be the throw in. In my opinion, the Lakers may offer two #1s, but not this years. They will offer the 2008 and 2010 #1. I do not feel JO has more value than this. Nobody wants to make lateral moves. If a deal is made, it is usually because one team is trying to move in another direction, the other team in another. Maybe this trade will happen, maybe it won't, but I promise you this: Odom will not be involved.
    We're not just going to give you JO.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    Maybe this trade will happen, maybe it won't, but I promise you this: Odom will not be involved.
    Thats why the lakers won't be able to get a deal done with us or for KG.I agree with you that giving up Odom and Bynum would be to much for them to give because without Lamar they can't compete against the best teams in the west.However at the same time Bynum isn't enough by himself to get a deal done.The lakers need another young player with upside or a higher draft pick and they really don't have that.On top of all that we have to take back a player in Brown who may be the laziest big man on the face of the earth and Radmonovic.

    The lakers just don't have the parts we need.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    Look, I am a Laker fan, and for them to get where they need to be they cannot give up Odom in a deal for JO. I think JO is slightly better than LO now, but the move is lateral. Besides, LO is just good enough to get the Pacers to a 7 or 8 seed. So what? Bynum is the guy the Lakers will look to put in a deal. Brown only has 1 year left on contract, while Radmanovic would have to be the throw in. In my opinion, the Lakers may offer two #1s, but not this years. They will offer the 2008 and 2010 #1. I do not feel JO has more value than this. Nobody wants to make lateral moves. If a deal is made, it is usually because one team is trying to move in another direction, the other team in another. Maybe this trade will happen, maybe it won't, but I promise you this: Odom will not be involved.
    That's fine.

    Help me here......it sounds like the best offer that the Lakers can offer would be Kwame+Bynum+Maurice Evans + ( any filler player NOT named VladRad ) + 1st round 2007 draft pick + 1st round 2009 draft pick.

    That's at least $13 mil to work with......with the 125% Salary cap rule...I think that this should net the Lakers a player with a $16.25 mil 2007-2008 salary.

    What player do you think the Lakers can get with that offer?

    EDIT: reading the RealGM Laker forum...it was suggested that they should go after Gasol. A Kwame+Bynum+Draft Picks could be a good starting point for the Grizzlies to rebuild in the 2007-2008 season. Anyone know what the Grizzlies wanted from the Bulls when they were discussing trading Gasol? I thought that they wanted 2 young players.....
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    What's wrong with Vladimir Radmonivich?
    That'll do.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    Look, I am a Laker fan, and for them to get where they need to be they cannot give up Odom in a deal for JO. I think JO is slightly better than LO now, but the move is lateral. Besides, LO is just good enough to get the Pacers to a 7 or 8 seed. So what? Bynum is the guy the Lakers will look to put in a deal. Brown only has 1 year left on contract, while Radmanovic would have to be the throw in. In my opinion, the Lakers may offer two #1s, but not this years. They will offer the 2008 and 2010 #1. I do not feel JO has more value than this. Nobody wants to make lateral moves. If a deal is made, it is usually because one team is trying to move in another direction, the other team in another. Maybe this trade will happen, maybe it won't, but I promise you this: Odom will not be involved.
    Then I think this is not going to happen, because I don't think the Pacers want to add Radman to their team. I think he's another relatively bad contract and except some range he doesn't bring us anything we really need and we already have a big with range, who is soft and has a bad contract (much worse actually).

    No Radmanovich, PLEASE. Also IF Odom isn't coming which is very defendable from the Lakers perspective then giving this drafts pick is a given IMO.

    So, I would suggest something along the lines of:

    Bynum, Brown, the Lakers 2007 first round pick (which isn't high at all) and a player from a third team that's acceptable to our team and that makes the numbers work for JO and Greene or something like that. I don't really see anything else that's fair to us if Odom isn't included.

    In other words if the Lakers want to get JO and not give up Odom then IMO they have to get a third team involved to make it anywhere near attractive for the Pacers to seriously consider it.

    Regards,

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Fantasy GMs all. As Pwee said, it's getting close to time to move this when we start saying things like "we ain't gonna do this or that" (my paraphrase).

    I'm not so certain that LB would want to trade with his nemesis...The Lakers...remember Magic Johnson? Yeah, they're buddies, but...it's still the Lakers. Bird v. Johnson...Lakers v. Celtics. Besides, this would make an instant title contender out of the Lakes and I don't see LB doing that. A deal to a less likely Title contender would be more likely IMO.
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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERERIC View Post
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    Look, I am a Laker fan, and for them to get where they need to be they cannot give up Odom in a deal for JO. I think JO is slightly better than LO now, but the move is lateral. Besides, LO is just good enough to get the Pacers to a 7 or 8 seed. So what? Bynum is the guy the Lakers will look to put in a deal. Brown only has 1 year left on contract, while Radmanovic would have to be the throw in. In my opinion, the Lakers may offer two #1s, but not this years. They will offer the 2008 and 2010 #1. I do not feel JO has more value than this. Nobody wants to make lateral moves. If a deal is made, it is usually because one team is trying to move in another direction, the other team in another. Maybe this trade will happen, maybe it won't, but I promise you this: Odom will not be involved.
    I am not even a JO fan, and I will even admit that JO is quite a bit better than LO. He is a shot blocking machine and a load on the low block. Generally, JO is double teamed or matched with a very good defender or he scores. Odom benefits from the best offensive player in history getting all the attention. JO has the sharp shooting Jamaal Tinsley and a cast of rookies. Seriously, the Pacers have no one but JO.

    Now, his VALUE might only be slightly better than LO due to injuries...but if healthy he is much better. That's the rub. If the Lakers deal for JO, they will be rolling the dice. They will not get JO for Bynum and a pile of garbage. The Pacers can do better than that. They will not give up their franchise player for a 19 yo with potential who is unproven.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I am not even a JO fan, and I will even admit that JO is quite a bit better than LO. He is a shot blocking machine and a load on the low block. Generally, JO is double teamed or matched with a very good defender or he scores. Odom benefits from the best offensive player in history getting all the attention. JO has the sharp shooting Jamaal Tinsley and a cast of rookies. Seriously, the Pacers have no one but JO.

    Now, his VALUE might only be slightly better than LO due to injuries...but if healthy he is much better. That's the rub. If the Lakers deal for JO, they will be rolling the dice. They will not get JO for Bynum and a pile of garbage. The Pacers can do better than that. They will not give up their franchise player for a 19 yo with potential who is unproven.

    Whether JO is better, which I do think he is, he's a different kinda better. He's that correction in the middle defensively, he's a high post scorer who I think would really fit the Triangle.

    Here is the thing the Pacers could take the 19th this year from LA and even two more number ones, but really I'd expect them to be in the 20s because the Lakers should be good, so it really doesn't have that much value to me.

    I've said this in the beginning if you move JO, Bird needs to get

    1. an expiring contract

    2. a young player with potential

    3. a good draft pick(s)

    4. a solid leader veteran prescence/great bench guy (preferably a PG or SG, Think Byron Scott)

    I just think the Lakers have the motivation and most of the pieces to have it make sense for both teams.

    Now my fear is Bird about a bad trade and half from being a laughingstock, so I hope he is prudent now that he solely seems to have the rudder.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Pwee, It's funny you call yourself a newbie, I don't consider you a "newbie" really, and I hope my post didn't seem like I was "talking down" in any way.

    I agree that this is a pretty good thread. It started with a journalistic source and is staying within the parameters of the article. There's also good discussion on pros and cons. This thread is in the top 5% of threads that go in this direction.

    I really just posted what I wrote so that the whole community would know that it's not such a great idea to start new threads in the main forum for every wild trade idea we have. If the issue comes up naturally in conversation, as it has here, that's a different matter.

    But then, I'm not a mod, I just post here.
    Ha yeah, well I usually don't feel like a newbie, but you brought up how threads were in the past, and the purpose of sub-forums, and I wasn't around during that time so it brought me back to the reality of bein a rook

    No I didn't feel as if you were talking down at all, I was just pointing out that I'm not a vet posting here so I could be wrong when I suggested the thread was close to being out of hand, but Indygeeezer agrees it's getting close as well, so that makes me feel better since he's been posting for longer!

    It is a pretty good thread with good ideas, etc... I just thought it was getting close to the point where it was becoming mostly trade talk, and we will/we would never/you have to include.... and that's not the direction this thread should go. IMO

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by pig norton View Post
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    What's wrong with Vladimir Radmonivich?
    We already have a cr@ppier version of him that is paid double the amount of money that he is getting paid.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Whether JO is better, which I do think he is, he's a different kinda better. He's that correction in the middle defensively, he's a high post scorer who I think would really fit the Triangle.

    Here is the thing the Pacers could take the 19th this year from LA and even two more number ones, but really I'd expect them to be in the 20s because the Lakers should be good, so it really doesn't have that much value to me.

    I've said this in the beginning if you move JO, Bird needs to get

    1. an expiring contract

    2. a young player with potential

    3. a good draft pick(s)

    4. a solid leader veteran prescence/great bench guy (preferably a PG or SG, Think Byron Scott)

    I just think the Lakers have the motivation and most of the pieces to have it make sense for both teams.

    Now my fear is Bird about a bad trade and half from being a laughingstock, so I hope he is prudent now that he solely seems to have the rudder.
    From the Lakers, I can see them giving up 1, 2 and 3...but not #4.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    We already have a cr@ppier version of him that is paid double the amount of money that he is getting paid.
    Not to mention that he is:
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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Wow every one of these proposed trades were just terrible, just terrible.

    If you guys think our talent level is low now, wed be the worst team in the league with these trades you are suggesting. Any trade that we make HAS to increase the talent on this team, meaning we need to get at least equal value for JO. And none of those trades help us in the backcourt, our biggest problem.

    The Lakers would not make a good trading partner, I hope TPTB realize this.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    Wow every one of these proposed trades were just terrible, just terrible.

    If you guys think our talent level is low now, wed be the worst team in the league with these trades you are suggesting. Any trade that we make HAS to increase the talent on this team, meaning we need to get at least equal value for JO. And none of those trades help us in the backcourt, our biggest problem.

    The Lakers would not make a good trading partner, I hope TPTB realize this.
    A trade of JONeal can result in 2 things....getting us players that will help us immediately ( vets/players to try to get us back into the playoffs now ) or young/prospects/expiring Contracts/picks that will help us rebuild.

    Which path TPTB chooses is based off of what offers we get.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Mr.ThunderMaker, I think you're one of the few Pacers fans still living in denial.

    This current team is DONE. It's time to start the rebuilding process, and with that comes taking some steps backwards to eventually take a giant leap forward. I'd rather be the worst team in the league and have the opportunity to add a superstar via the draft then a middle-of-the-pack non-entity. Who's in worse shape - our 35 win Pacers with no pick and no cap room in the foreseeable future, or the 24 win Celtics with a great shot at the next Duncan (Oden) or KG (Durant) and enough cap room to sign a max free agent next offseason?

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He'd be horrible in the triangle offense, and Phil would hate his defense. JT would be a disaster in that system. Lakers know this and won't want Jamaal
    Nah. Jackson coaches to his talent as well as anyone in the league, triangle or no triangle.

    Above all else, Jamaal is talented. He'd make a terrific third/fourth option behind Bryant and JO. He's also a very good distributor when motivated. Hell, he'd have a field day feeding those two. It's the right role for him.

    You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone to call JT and RC a good combo, but Jackson would know how to use him without trying to make him a square peg in a round hole.

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Y2J View Post
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    This current team is DONE. It's time to start the rebuilding process, and with that comes taking some steps backwards to eventually take a giant leap forward. I'd rather be the worst team in the league and have the opportunity to add a superstar via the draft then a middle-of-the-pack non-entity. Who's in worse shape - our 35 win Pacers with no pick and no cap room in the foreseeable future, or the 24 win Celtics with a great shot at the next Duncan (Oden) or KG (Durant) and enough cap room to sign a max free agent next offseason?
    Bingo! Add to that that you have to DEVELOP players mostly before they become absolute star players and get superb value, so yes, offcourse Bynum looks like a scrub now, especially compared to JO. Do you actually think he would be offered if he were the same or better then JO is now? NO, offcourse not. We are banking on him becoming a really good player, which he isn't yet, but he's got virtually all of the physical tools, etc. He's just young now and that's where the developing comes in.

    Regards,

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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Y2J View Post
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    Mr.ThunderMaker, I think you're one of the few Pacers fans still living in denial.

    This current team is DONE. It's time to start the rebuilding process, and with that comes taking some steps backwards to eventually take a giant leap forward. I'd rather be the worst team in the league and have the opportunity to add a superstar via the draft then a middle-of-the-pack non-entity. Who's in worse shape - our 35 win Pacers with no pick and no cap room in the foreseeable future, or the 24 win Celtics with a great shot at the next Duncan (Oden) or KG (Durant) and enough cap room to sign a max free agent next offseason?
    I wish I could put it that well. Stick a fork in this team.

    At best, this team is configured for mediocrity. We have enough veterans and decent young players to squeek into the playoffs...if we are relatively healthy...but that's even a long shot. We do NOT have anyone who can shoot and our defense is not good. That is not going to change. Our best players are injury riddled. Some of our biggest contracts are attached to bench players.

    If you want a contender anytime soon, the best thing we could possibly do is trade our vets for solid young players. The reason this is necessary is that the talent level has dropped to the point we will have a difficult time making deals to get much better.

    Yes, maybe it will be a couple rough years...but with a couple key picks we will be improving. In fact from the time of the trade, we will probably be improving as the young players get experience. I would rather see a young athletic team getting better than an injury riddled veteran team going downhill for another 5 years. Imagine if JO hangs it up due to injuries ala Bender. It could be that JO's value will never be higher than right now.

    ...and look at the Bulls now. They have been exciting for several years after winning 6 titles in the 90's. Now they are contending again. Might even win the championship. Yes, I know there were a few painful years, but I would rather have that than what will be a decade at least of mediocrity...very possibly going further down hill due to injuries.

    It is time!

  25. #100
    Member Mr.ThunderMakeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stein on Lakers with lots of JO talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Y2J View Post
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    Mr.ThunderMaker, I think you're one of the few Pacers fans still living in denial.

    This current team is DONE. It's time to start the rebuilding process, and with that comes taking some steps backwards to eventually take a giant leap forward. I'd rather be the worst team in the league and have the opportunity to add a superstar via the draft then a middle-of-the-pack non-entity. Who's in worse shape - our 35 win Pacers with no pick and no cap room in the foreseeable future, or the 24 win Celtics with a great shot at the next Duncan (Oden) or KG (Durant) and enough cap room to sign a max free agent next offseason?
    Oh I have no misconceptions about this team, I fully expect, and want it to be blown up. I just dont see how trading JO to the Lakers for a bunch of crap is gonna make us better, immediately or in the long run. JO is our most valuable trading piece, to have any hope of rebuilding we need to maximize the talent we get back for him.

    Everyones crying (not me) about the talent hit we took in the GS trade; the talent hit in these proposed trades make the GS trade look like the greatest trade ever.

    Edit: Maybe my hatred for the Lakers is affecting my opinion here, but I just dont see anyone on the Lakers that is worth trading for except Kobe himself, and I cant stand Kobe. Odom is decent but weve had enough problems with injury-plagued seasons. I dont even see any potential in their young players.

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