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Thread: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    KTK - If Jackson were white, he'd get the same treatment from the fans.

    It seems that you want to give him extra treatment because he is black, which would make you the bigger offender in the race issue.
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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    IIRC, fans hated Sarunas Jasikevicius' big fat mouth as much as Jackson's.

    And just like Jackson, we a had a zillion fan boys cluttering the forums with posts about how his talent should give him a free pass and that the coaches didn't use him properly and blah blah blah.

    OH WAIT - SARUNAS IS WHITE!
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Devil's Advocate: Retort - Sarunas is foreign.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Amazing that Uncle Frank who was a neo-nazi white thug who wanted to corrupt this site and attempted to do so in a slick way without violating PD rules was called out by Los Angeles, DKnick, and myself on this board and kicked off PDQ.

    Can't believe we're going through the same thing.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Help me think of a white person who displays such hostility toward authority/ referrees/ his boss? I wonder what (a) the public and (b) the stereotypical caucasian fan thinks of ....




    Bob Knight?

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  6. #31
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Every single thread on PD is turning into a discussion about Jack. We should rename this place Stephen Jackson Digest.

    There is no racism in the NBA. This study is ridiculous and is only meant to garner some publicity - there is absolutely no possible way that referees consciously decide to treat black players better or worse than white players. Most of their calls are made within milliseconds of the infraction anyway - it ain't like they can sit down and think about how to unfairly treat the black players they don't like.

    And for the record, KTK - you are way off. I'm probably Jack's biggest fan and most of the time I cannot stand his bickering to the refs (especially when play hasn't stopped and he's at the other end of the floor). There's no legit explanation for it regarding "white authority."

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
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    Help me think of a white person who displays such hostility toward authority/ referrees/ his boss? I wonder what (a) the public and (b) the stereotypical caucasian fan thinks of ....




    Bob Knight?

    You know what JAy, it truly is a mixed bag. There are folks who think Knight is/was a God. But there are just as many who thought he was an arrogant *** who deserved to be fired.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Devil's Advocate: Retort - Sarunas is foreign.
    Hilarious.

    Nice try.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    Most of their calls are made within milliseconds of the infraction anyway - it ain't like they can sit down and think about how to unfairly treat the black players they don't like.
    It's the worst kind of racism, it's ingrained. So deep in the marrow it doesn't have to be planned, it just happens by reaction. You know, one of the top papers presented at the NBER in the past couple of years, and one of the most sought after academic hires in economics (I think he's at U.Chicago now) is a paper on hiring and salaries based on racially identifiable first names. Anyone want to dispute that guy's findings? He's an anticipated candidate for a Clark medal and thought to be a future Nobel...

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    You know what JAy, it truly is a mixed bag. There are folks who think Knight is/was a God. But there are just as many who thought he was an arrogant *** who deserved to be fired.
    Just like there are a number of people that SJax is merely a misunderstood hero and others that think he is a hotheaded motormouth with a serious attitude problem.

    In both cases, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    I do find it ironic the amount of criticism SJax gets solely for running his mouth all the time. After all, we as Pacers fans collectively endorsed Reggie who was just as bad at this, especially when he was SJax's age. While I'm not convinced maturity will fix this problem for SJax, I personally made/ make a conscious effort to point out that I absolutely hate several different aspects of SJax's on-court game far more than I care about his yapping/ lack of respect for authority.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  11. #36
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    I didn't even read this cause it's so damn pathetic. What's the ratio of black to white players in the NBA?
    :thepacers
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  12. #37

    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Hilarious.

    Nice try.


    Uh......LA.........I gotta commit some white-on-white crime and call a foul on you.

    *whistle* Illegal use of the "flirt" smiley. Non-shooting foul. Ball to be inbounded on the side.


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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Hilarious.

    Nice try.
    I'm really not sure how to interpret your response. First you say "Hilarious" with a capital H, but there's no smiley attached or even an exclamation point. Then you say "Nice try", which seems to contradict the aforementioned "Hilarious". Then the "flirt" smiley really threw me off.

    Bravo, sir?

    I'm seriously kidding.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal_Pacerfan View Post
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    I didn't even read this cause it's so damn pathetic. What's the ratio of black to white players in the NBA?
    It is per player per 48 minutes, so the ratio of blacks to whites wouldn't skew the data.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    It's the worst kind of racism, it's ingrained. So deep in the marrow it doesn't have to be planned, it just happens by reaction. You know, one of the top papers presented at the NBER in the past couple of years, and one of the most sought after academic hires in economics (I think he's at U.Chicago now) is a paper on hiring and salaries based on racially identifiable first names. Anyone want to dispute that guy's findings? He's an anticipated candidate for a Clark medal and thought to be a future Nobel...
    You're like the Dennis Kucinich (or Mike Gravel, for that matter) of Stephen Jackson fans.

    I understand there may be a couple refs who have racist tendencies (both white and black), but this study is so far off the mark. There is no possible way to illustrate that the majority of NBA referees give preferential treatment to white players.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    You're like the Dennis Kucinich (or Mike Gravel, for that matter) of Stephen Jackson fans.

    I understand there may be a couple refs who have racist tendencies (both white and black), but this study is so far off the mark. There is no possible way to illustrate that the majority of NBA referees give preferential treatment to white players.
    There's really no reason to defame fine Americans like Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel...Seriously now.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    Just like there is nothing racial about the word Thug? Yet ESPN found it worthy to cover that exact, specific word? Just like this report is clearly flawed? Yet, it was done by faculty at one of the nation's top5 business schools and will be submitted to the freaking NBER. Do you even know what the NBER is? If their methods are so flawed that anyone on this board can point out error, I can guarantee you that a Wharton faculty member would not be turning it into the NBER.
    So you're telling me that the word thug describes a color?
    Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word, then get a history lesson.

    I've taken a few stats classes and all my professors have said the same thing. You can make a study say whatever you want it to say. That's why studies are submitted to journals, for peer REVIEW. Just because it's submitted doesn't mean that it's gospel, or even factual. It can be rebutted it he next freaking issue.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    It's the worst kind of racism, it's ingrained. So deep in the marrow it doesn't have to be planned, it just happens by reaction. You know, one of the top papers presented at the NBER in the past couple of years, and one of the most sought after academic hires in economics (I think he's at U.Chicago now) is a paper on hiring and salaries based on racially identifiable first names. Anyone want to dispute that guy's findings? He's an anticipated candidate for a Clark medal and thought to be a future Nobel...
    But the game of professional basketball moves substantially faster than a decision about someone's compensation.

    What I'd really like to see is a study on how many fouls caucasian and non-caucasian players get away with during a game, and who lets them.

    I'm sure there is a study somewhere that shows that white police officers arrest more non-caucasian suspects than non-white officers do. But that doesn't necessarily mean racism. Now if you add the words "ultimately found not guilty" after the word "suspects" above - now we're talking.

    There needs to be a corresponding study of who actually commits more fouls (either called or noncalled) for this to have any real meaning.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
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    Just like there are a number of people that SJax is merely a misunderstood hero and others that think he is a hotheaded motormouth with a serious attitude problem.

    In both cases, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    I do find it ironic the amount of criticism SJax gets solely for running his mouth all the time. After all, we as Pacers fans collectively endorsed Reggie who was just as bad at this, especially when he was SJax's age. While I'm not convinced maturity will fix this problem for SJax, I personally made/ make a conscious effort to point out that I absolutely hate several different aspects of SJax's on-court game far more than I care about his yapping/ lack of respect for authority.

    The difference in this discussion is KTK's allusion that white Pacer fans hate Jackson because he is black. I'm getting tired of this entire game and will say there are racists in the world and there are some right here in the great state of Indiana. Our new found friend likes to point out this area in particular seems to be full of racist types. What he doesn't understand is this state is absolutely on the low end of that assumption. Actually (sorry LA) but the great state of California is currently leading the category in recruitment. In case anyone wonders where this info came from I can provide a link.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Uh......LA.........I gotta commit some white-on-white crime and call a foul on you.

    *whistle* Illegal use of the "flirt" smiley. Non-shooting foul. Ball to be inbounded on the side.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I'm really not sure how to interpret your response. First you say "Hilarious" with a capital H, but there's no smiley attached or even an exclamation point. Then you say "Nice try", which seems to contradict the aforementioned "Hilarious". Then the "flirt" smiley really threw me off.

    Bravo, sir?

    I'm seriously kidding.
    Hopefully this smiley will clear things up:

    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So you're telling me that the word thug describes a color?
    Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word, then get a history lesson.

    I've taken a few stats classes and all my professors have said the same thing. You can make a study say whatever you want it to say. That's why studies are submitted to journals, for peer REVIEW. Just because it's submitted doesn't mean that it's gospel, or even factual. It can be rebutted it he next freaking issue.
    If it's accepted for discussion @ NBER, you can almost bet that will be make it into AER or JPE. Go ask one of your professors how many handstands and cartwheels they'd do if they had a paper they could give a talk about @ NBER, or were published in AER or JPE...

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Wait - we're talking about a 3% difference between all-white officiating crews and all-black officiating crews?

    Jay is our resident math-nerd. Here's a request for Jay, or anyone who has taken a statistics class: Please explain margin of error to the rest of us.
    It's not even margin of error but whether it's statistically significant which is a factor of sample size (N), and standard deviation relative to the data.

    Off the top of my head, one tenth of a foul per game probably doesn't mean much - in fact it's much better than what I expected based on the thread title.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Hopefully this smiley will clear things up:

    Much; Better'

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    It's not even margin of error but whether it's statistically significant which is a factor of sample size (N), and standard deviation relative to the data.

    Off the top of my head, one tenth of a foul per game probably doesn't mean much - in fact it's much better than what I expected based on the thread title.
    So after all of this data mining and research and the money used to do that, we've either discovered nothing or at most that there is very little difference between how black official and white officials call the games.

    I am a better person having learned this.
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Actually my professor last semester has been published many times in both, and is even serves as a professional reviewer for many different journals, along with being the president of Society for Computers in Psychology.

    Here's a couple links on him if you would like to know more
    http://web.bsu.edu/dlb/bkgd.htm
    http://technologysource.org/author/darrell_l_butler/

    If you don't want to take my word about it being reviewed, then maybe you should have read the entire article

    Wolfers and Price are set to present the paper at meetings of the Society of Labor Economists on Friday and the American Law and Economics Association on Sunday. The Times said they will then submit it to the National Bureau of Economic Research and for formal peer review before consideration by an economic journal.
    WOW!!!! THEY WANT IT TO BE REVIEWED!

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