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Thread: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

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    Post Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    An academic study of NBA officiating found that white referees called fouls at a greater rate against black players than against white players, The New York Times reported on its Web site Tuesday night.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboHicks View Post
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    An academic study of NBA officiating found that white referees called fouls at a greater rate against black players than against white players, The New York Times reported on its Web site Tuesday night.

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    Just what we and the league need, an inherently racist article.

    Did I read it? Absolutely not. It's in the NY Times, that is all I need to know.

    OK...I went back and read it. The article appears unbiased, although headlines can lead one to a specified conclusion, but whatever.
    I pulled out this one snippet as worthy of note.

    "The NBA strongly criticized the study, which was based on information from publicly available box scores, which show only the referees' names and contain no information about which official made a call."

    Now what I see that the report fails to mention is that when a female ref is involved, 100% of her calls go AGAINST the male players invovled.
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Idiotic article.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    Idiotic article.

    Hey! It was YOUR doppleganger that posted the article.
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    I find the whole idea of even looking into it offensive and the data is completely wrong. They have no way of knowing which particular referee called what

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Well this could be true. I mean there is more black players in the NBA than white players, so yes, it's very likely they're making more calls against black players.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I find the whole idea of even looking into it offensive and the data is completely wrong. They have no way of knowing which particular referee called what
    No racisim can be offensive. It has been proven time and again that people of different races favor their own race.
    So with the ratio of white to black referees I can see where a study might be needed. It's kind of like what a minority defendent faces with majority judges and jury's So bring on Heywoode Workman!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    Well this could be true. I mean there is more black players in the NBA than white players, so yes, it's very likely they're making more calls against black players.

    It is based on fouls per player per 48 minutes. So the number of players per race in the league is largely irrelevant.

    I am far from convinced by this report. But this is interesting:

    "But the key finding was in regard to foul calls, saying "black players receive around 0.12-0.20 more fouls per 48 minutes played [an increase of 2½-4½ percent] when the number of white referees officiating a game increases from zero to three.""

    The contrast of all-white crews to no-white crews wouldn't be effected by the "box score" syndrome.

    There are many unanswered questions. However, the box score fallacy doesn't explain away all of the data.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    Well this could be true. I mean there is more black players in the NBA than white players, so yes, it's very likely they're making more calls against black players.
    Hey no fair injecting "reasonableness" into this!
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by HOOPFANATIC View Post
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    So with the ratio of white to black referees I can see where a study might be needed.
    And I think a big reason why so many people here hate SJax's "yapping" with the ref's. They don't like seeing someone like SJax, where he's from, how he looks, standing up to white authority.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Wait - we're talking about a 3% difference between all-white officiating crews and all-black officiating crews?

    Jay is our resident math-nerd. Here's a request for Jay, or anyone who has taken a statistics class: Please explain margin of error to the rest of us.
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    I'm in agreement with most people that this study isn't credible, but for different reasons.

    I spend my entire day conducting research at a grad assistantship, and come across situations like this a lot. Specifically where individual level measurements are not possible. There are ways to find significant statistical relationships looking only at 3 man crews rather than individual refs. That part I am not at odds with.

    What these guys failed to do was something called a "Multiple Regression". They didn't do one because their data isn't rich enough to allow it, I'm assuming. What these multiple regression models do is rule our spurious (seemingly real, but not actually real) relationships.

    For instance, foul calls against black players seem to go up as the number of white refs in the crew go up. But perhaps that relationship isn't a direct one at all. Variables such as player position, player foul-per-game, ref fouls called-per-game, etc.. should be entered into the statistical model.



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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Wait - we're talking about a 3% difference between all-white officiating crews and all-black officiating crews?

    Jay is our resident math-nerd. Here's a request for Jay, or anyone who has taken a statistics class: Please explain margin of error to the rest of us.


    Does anyone have the data? It would be interesting to see how consistantly that 3% holds. If it is three percent no matter what time frame you grab (2 weeks, 3 months, ten years) then that is a solid number. But if you can grab 7 random years and come out with a negative number, then this is all moot.

    Where is the 'grain of salt' smiley when you need it?

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    And I think a big reason why so many people here hate SJax's "yapping" with the ref's. They don't like seeing someone like SJax, where he's from, how he looks, standing up to white authority.
    Oh yeah, now I remember why I cringed when I saw you had come over from the Star site.
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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Oh yeah, now I remember why I cringed when I saw you had come over from the Star site.
    Yeah I agree. I'm not usually one to put down comments, but that one was unnecessary and flagrant.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    And I think a big reason why so many people here hate SJax's "yapping" with the ref's. They don't like seeing someone like SJax, where he's from, how he looks, standing up to white authority.
    So many people here hated when Jack yapped at black referees too. I guess they hate when he stands up to black authority too...

    ...or it could be that they hated that he let his man go down court for the easy score so often. But no, that couldn't be it. That makes too much sense.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    And I think a big reason why so many people here hate SJax's "yapping" with the ref's. They don't like seeing someone like SJax, where he's from, how he looks, standing up to white authority.


    "White authority", please explain, so we all will understand what you meant by this comment?

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    And I think a big reason why so many people here hate SJax's "yapping" with the ref's. They don't like seeing someone like SJax, where he's from, how he looks, standing up to white authority.

    Like Aw Heck pointed out, why does he yap to black officials as well?

    There is a difference between standing up to unjust, corrupt authority and simply rejecting the absolute concept of authority.

    Jax isn't standing up to the man. He is refusing to accept officials as an authoritative voice. Black, white, man, woman. He can't accept someone telling him he is wrong.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    And I think a big reason why so many people here hate SJax's "yapping" with the ref's. They don't like seeing someone like SJax, where he's from, how he looks, standing up to white authority.


    Yeahh, man that MUST be it! Has nothing to do with his attitude, breaking off plays, taking wild shots, *****ing with the referees, teammates or the coach not too mention nothing with PR-nightmares that he continues to produce at a recorde rate. Ok, that latest is overdone, (Mo)Ron has him beat there... Let's stick with alarming rate instead .



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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    I think that such an analysis would be extremely complex. I would want to see all of the factors that entered into their analysis, because there are several that are so subjective in nature.

    For example, does the timeframe within the game when the foul was called play a role in the likelihood of a foul being called. Is there a greater percentage of one race that plays more significant minutes during mop-up minutes? And, in a lopsided game, if one race is more likely to play a more significant role in mop-up minutes, are the more minor infractions likely to be called at all?

    There are countless considerations to make in regards to what data to include and exclude. I find it very easy to believe that a few, if not several, very important factors were considered in their analysis.

    So my conclusion? Unless I can see the protocol used for the analysis of the data, to me the study is meaningless.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    "White authority", please explain, so we all will understand what you meant by this comment?
    Ref = position of authority on the court
    White ref = White authority
    NBA as a whole = White team owners, white dictator in David Stern, white corporate America catered to over the general populace (see new arena luxury boxes, player dress code, etc.)

    I don't think it's outside the bounds of comprehension to think there isn't an unusually large subset of Pacer fans who dislike the image of SJax, who he is, where he's from, and how he looks standing up to the refs. We already had another poster on this board say the following:

    Originally Posted by Heywoode: He is EXACTLY the kind of person who should have to work a regular-joe job and should not be handed millions of dollars to play a stupid game.

    Yep, exactly the kind of person who needs to learn his place, by working fries at McDonald's because I don't like how he's yapping at those refs. Nevermind that his salary actually lines up pretty darn well with what he contributes, more so than quite a lot of players like, oh, say Murphy, Dunleavy, Austin, Sarunas.... No one handed SJax anything, they guy has earned his place in the NBA. He's no flashy first round draft pick, the guy worked as hard or harder than anyone for his paycheck.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    There's nothing racial about Haywoode's comments.
    There's nothing racial about us hating that Jackson *****ed at the refs.
    There's nothing racial about authority figures.

    Barkley just put it well on Dan Patrick's radio show

    "This is like telling me that fat people eat more than skinny people."

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    There's nothing racial about Haywoode's comments.
    There's nothing racial about us hating that Jackson *****ed at the refs.
    There's nothing racial about authority figures.

    Barkley just put it well on Dan Patrick's radio show

    "This is like telling me that fat people eat more than skinny people."
    Just like there is nothing racial about the word Thug? Yet ESPN found it worthy to cover that exact, specific word? Just like this report is clearly flawed? Yet, it was done by faculty at one of the nation's top5 business schools and will be submitted to the freaking NBER. Do you even know what the NBER is? If their methods are so flawed that anyone on this board can point out error, I can guarantee you that a Wharton faculty member would not be turning it into the NBER.

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    We already had another poster on this board say the following:

    Originally Posted by Heywoode: He is EXACTLY the kind of person who should have to work a regular-joe job and should not be handed millions of dollars to play a stupid game.

    Yep, exactly the kind of person who needs to learn his place, by working fries at McDonald's because I don't like how he's yapping at those refs. Nevermind that his salary actually lines up pretty darn well with what he contributes, more so than quite a lot of players like, oh, say Murphy, Dunleavy, Austin, Sarunas.... No one handed SJax anything, they guy has earned his place in the NBA. He's no flashy first round draft pick, the guy worked as hard or harder than anyone for his paycheck.
    Dude, what Heywoode said had NOTHING to do with race, that's a totally unfair connection with regards to him or the one you are making above.

    I will agree with you though that SJax did absolutely work hard for his place in the NBA, which makes it even stranger that he does his best to screw up the image people have of him. I don't believe he's a terrible person, I do believe he's pretty damn bad at decision making both on and off the court .

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    Default Re: Report: White refs call more fouls on black players (ESPN.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by KTK View Post
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    Ref = position of authority on the court
    White ref = White authority
    NBA as a whole = White team owners, white dictator in David Stern, white corporate America catered to over the general populace (see new arena luxury boxes, player dress code, etc.)

    I don't think it's outside the bounds of comprehension to think there isn't an unusually large subset of Pacer fans who dislike the image of SJax, who he is, where he's from, and how he looks standing up to the refs. We already had another poster on this board say the following:

    Originally Posted by Heywoode: He is EXACTLY the kind of person who should have to work a regular-joe job and should not be handed millions of dollars to play a stupid game.

    Yep, exactly the kind of person who needs to learn his place, by working fries at McDonald's because I don't like how he's yapping at those refs. Nevermind that his salary actually lines up pretty darn well with what he contributes, more so than quite a lot of players like, oh, say Murphy, Dunleavy, Austin, Sarunas.... No one handed SJax anything, they guy has earned his place in the NBA. He's no flashy first round draft pick, the guy worked as hard or harder than anyone for his paycheck.

    No need for any further explanations, it is as clear as black and white.

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