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Thread: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

  1. #26
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I think labeling Williams as better than Granger is premature. Let's see how they look in a year.
    Thank you.

    I can see how someone might think Williams will be better than Granger eventually, but right now Granger is much much better. As Granger learned after the trade there is a huge difference being the 7th or 8th man coming off the bench and being the second best player on the entire team and playing 40 minutes. Before anyone suggests that Williams is better than Granger - let's see how Williams can handle playing 40 minutes every game.

    Comparing Granger last season to Williams this season, Granger's defense is much better, Williams shooting is better

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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    As long as they can play together they'll grow together and make each other better. I'm not sure Williams will be better but he sure was a bright spot in an ugly season. Danny will keep getting better. I really don't think its all gloom and doom just yet. There is still hope if we don't give our good players up in a trade.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by JB's Breakout Year View Post
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    I'd love to see Shawne develop into a 2 guard. He already has a really nice shooting stroke, knows the game, and can get to the rim. His handle and quickness are the 2 things he'd have to develop, I think. Otherwise, he plays a lot like a young Lamar Odom to me, which is a really good thing.
    I'm still hesitant to think of Shawne or Danny as a 2-guard. At present neither one has the quickness or the handle to be a true SG. While you can work on ball-handling, you don't see a lot of players who develop or improve quickness without some weight issues being resolved. This is not the case with Danny or Shawne. What I'd really like to see is Dunleavy, Danny, and Shawne develop into 3 players who can play together. If you get a strong PG and a post player who can bang down low, rebound, and block shots, this could be a dangerous lineup. I think that JO could be that post player if he wanted to.

    For that to happen, Dunleavy has to get stronger. Danny needs to work on ball-handling and rebounding. Shawne needs to work on ball-handling and strength.
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  4. #29

    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    Granger, from what I've seen is better defensively, and will continue to be. Granger also appears to be the better athlete between the two of them.

    First point, in man-defense Granger is better, yeah. But in terms of defensive awareness Williams is already ahead, as far as positioning and so forth. Second point, I can't agree with at all. Williams is (easily) the better athlete, from what I've seen. DG's main weakness is his slow feet and weak dribble, two things that haven't shown up as flaws for Williams (yet).

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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I'm astounded so many people think Shawne is going to be better than Granger. Granger sure as hell has shown a lot more.
    Yeah he has played and started for a year and a half. While Shawne has started to get consistent play in the last month of the season.

    No **** Granger has shown alot more.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac View Post
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    Granger is going to be 24 next year, Shawne 21, If I'm correct I dont feel like looking.

    When Shawne is 24 he will for damn sure be better then ol stand behind the 3point line and wave my hands Danny.

    What a disappointing season by the golden boy. Most of you didnt want ANY SF because Danny is so great and Danny needed to be the #2. The guy is not ready to be a #2 and I said it before the season. All the games when JO was hurt, Granger would still be doing the same thing he was doing when JO was playing. And that is not being aggressive, he has all the ability to score 20 ppg, he is just scared.

    While Shawne on the other hand looks like he is a world class ice skater when he is moving on the floor. He is also the best shooter on this team.

    Did you tune out the last month? Danny has been going to the basket a LOT lately. Rick confirmed they had been on him about it.
    The VERY nice thing is how WELL he finishes! VERY GOOD around the basket, with EITHER hand.
    He impressed me 100% more in the past 2 weeks than he did most of the season.
    You should have payed attention.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I have a feeling the reason many of us seem to think Williams has more going for him than Granger (as far as potential and where he's at now) is simply because Granger got more minutes and we got to see the growing pains and the flaws. Williams, OTOH, got more limited minutes and we didn't really get a full picture.

    It's the same thing will college players staying in college instead of declaring for the draft. If you're going to be a top pick you risk tarnishing that by giving the scouts a fuller picture. The more they know and see the more they can dwell on the negatives.

    -Bball
    BINGO. It's the old "back up quarterback" syndrom. Everybody LOVES the backup, because he looks good in mop up duty and hasn't played enough minutes to dissect his weaknesses.
    Danny is much further along than most of you think, (and me too until lately).
    He IS developing the "second tier" of abilities now. They've scouted him and learned how to guard him and now HE"S adapting.\
    That's what stars and stars in the making do. I like Shawne A LOT. But he's not gone through a whole bunch of steps that Danny has. WHEN he's done that, and STILL looks better, then you'll have something.
    Not before.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I'm astounded so many people think Shawne is going to be better than Granger. Granger sure as hell has shown a lot more.
    agreed. Shawne has shown a nice jumper and offense in general. He's NEVER rebounded like Danny did as a rookie. Nor blocked shots. NOR GUARDED THE OPPOSITIONS BEST PLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! While STILL being the 2nd option!

  9. #34

    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac View Post
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    Granger is going to be 24 next year, Shawne 21, If I'm correct I dont feel like looking.

    When Shawne is 24 he will for damn sure be better then ol stand behind the 3point line and wave my hands Danny.

    What a disappointing season by the golden boy. Most of you didnt want ANY SF because Danny is so great and Danny needed to be the #2. The guy is not ready to be a #2 and I said it before the season. All the games when JO was hurt, Granger would still be doing the same thing he was doing when JO was playing. And that is not being aggressive, he has all the ability to score 20 ppg, he is just scared.

    While Shawne on the other hand looks like he is a world class ice skater when he is moving on the floor. He is also the best shooter on this team.
    I totally disagree with your post, except for the bolded part. Granger should be a 3rd option, JO the 2nd (he certainly isn't a clear cut 1st, he proved that this season) and we currently don't have a 1st option on offense right now.

    I hope we trade JO for a high scoring SG and insert Shawne as our 2nd option.
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  10. #35
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    When looking at Granger vs. Williams, the margin is razor thin. Williams looks very smooth out there, and seems to have a better basketball IQ. Granger, from what I've seen is better defensively, and will continue to be. Granger also appears to be the better athlete between the two of them.

    Here's the rub. Both have shown tremendous improvement in their time playing, which is usually the deciding factor when you're trying to figure out who the better player is. Last year Granger improved his shot, and during the season, you saw him start being more aggressive. Williams literally went from a guy who didn't look like he belonged in the NBA during the Fan Jam to a guy who I feel can be an All-Star at some point.

    If you held a gun to my head and made me choose, I'd keep Williams due to his age. The "best" solution would be to have Williams beef up a little bit to become a 3/4 and play the Al Harrington role as 6th man playing both positions. If we can land Mark Iavaroni, that's what I'd want. I do not want Granger or Williams trying to play SG, however. If it becomes a situation where both need to start at SF, then trade whichever one will land you more value and never look back.
    They're both 6'9" or +. They make perfect bookend forwards. Combined with Ike and Dunleavy I'm happy with our forwards for the next decade.
    Of course we'll have to trade at least 1 of them to get the guards we desperately need.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Thank you.

    I can see how someone might think Williams will be better than Granger eventually, but right now Granger is much much better. As Granger learned after the trade there is a huge difference being the 7th or 8th man coming off the bench and being the second best player on the entire team and playing 40 minutes. Before anyone suggests that Williams is better than Granger - let's see how Williams can handle playing 40 minutes every game.

    Comparing Granger last season to Williams this season, Granger's defense is much better, Williams shooting is better
    Rebounding - Granger much better, though he needs to stay focused on it.
    Shot blocking - Danny was a semi-force for a while last year, when he was in the paint more. Hoping he's back in there next year.

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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    First point, in man-defense Granger is better, yeah. But in terms of defensive awareness Williams is already ahead, as far as positioning and so forth. Second point, I can't agree with at all. Williams is (easily) the better athlete, from what I've seen. DG's main weakness is his slow feet and weak dribble, two things that haven't shown up as flaws for Williams (yet).
    Danny hasn't looked slow blowing past his defender to the hoop lately.

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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    (it's worse with autographs, I just can't risk those anymore...all get traded).
    Anyway that you can track down Tinsley or Murphy during the offseason to get their autograph?
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    I think labeling Williams as better than Granger is premature. Let's see how they look in a year.
    Here's where I see it - away from the ball. Shawne almost constantly seeks out the gaps, the spaces that open up on either end, filling them offensively to keep the defense honest or covering them to prevent a pass or dribble drive.

    One on one Danny is better at both ends right now, which is where I mention offensive moves that Danny has, despite the limited handles.

    DD is right about Danny freezing into the hands-up, I'm open at 3pt arc on the weakside of a defensive trap/double team. That crap doesn't help because the ball can't reach you in those situations. Watching Shawne in similar situations he would come into the void left by the defense and attack it, making himself more available to get the ball and do something with it closer to the rim.

    BTW, per48 Shawne OUTREBOUNDED Granger this year (7.2 to 6.6) and was virtually the same on assists (2 to 1.9). Danny was better in steals and blocks, but again that goes with my point that one on one Danny is the stronger defender. He's shown pretty strong instincts for shot blocks and his one on one defense actually is the closest thing to Pippen he has shown so far.

    Last year Granger was a 10.5 rp48 guy, but let's be fair here, he was playing in the 4 with JO out and even Pollard/Foster sitting half the time. He was one of the biggest players on the team and even Harrison had a higher rp48 last year in his 67 games.

    I think the rebounding level you saw this year at the primarly SF spot was more on track for where his game is at. HOWEVER, between the 2 of them I'd put DG at the PF sooner than Shawne because he is better in the post.


    Honestly to me it's amazing how close the 2 of them are in overall ability. They each have some strengths, but the Pacers effectively drafted Danny 2 years in a row, both making the pick a steal IMO. Next year might be too soon, but years 4/3 should be very exciting I think.

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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Okay... question to all of you that have been discussing the 1-3-3-4-5 rotation while playing Dunleavy/Granger/Shawne at the SG spot.

    Should we continue with what we were doing....go big and play 2 SFs at the SG/SF rotation ( while adding Marquis to the mix )?

    - As in Marquis/Granger/Shawne/Dunleavy share a combined 96 minutes of playing time at the SG/SF rotation ( hence not acquiring a new Starting or backup SG ) with Marquis ( possibly ) playing some backup PG minutes.

    or

    Should we go back to a more traditional SG / SF rotation where we acquire a legit SG ( either a starting or backup one ) and we have our remaining SFs play only at the SF position?

    - As in starting Marquis starting ( or backing up ) whatever SG that we acquire while having a standard SF rotation of Granger/Dunleavy/Shawne ( pick 2 since 1 of them will likely be traded ).

    I'm guessing that if we try to acquire a legit SG....either backup of starting quality......it will mean that one of the SFs minutes will likely diminish. My main concern is how to figure out a way to get Shawne some legit minutes to continue his development.
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    I'm not overly impressed with Shawne. I think he needs to bulk up, and I don't think his game is especially versatile. I'm not convinced he can put the ball on the floor, for example.

    But I'll say this - he was the only guy who even tried to run the floor during the first half of the Atlanta game, so he gets credit for having more professional pride than these other bozos. Ike was also playing hard but wasn't running the floor like Shawne was.

    I'd trade him for legit backcourt help in a heartbeat. And I think the reality is that either Williams or Granger will need to be traded (we're stuck with Dunleavy, but he's an okay "system" player, even if he's obnoxiously overpaid.)

    Williams is, however, miles and miles ahead of rAwful Marshall.
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  17. #42
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    I like them both and look forward to watching them develop together.....




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    Once the summer is set and he's back in camp for certain he's gonna be the first jersey I've bought in about 10 years. I'm risking my jinx with him (it's worse with autographs, I just can't risk those anymore...all get traded).
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  18. #43
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    DD is right about Danny freezing into the hands-up, I'm open at 3pt arc on the weakside of a defensive trap/double team. That crap doesn't help because the ball can't reach you in those situations. Watching Shawne in similar situations he would come into the void left by the defense and attack it, making himself more available to get the ball and do something with it closer to the rim.

    BTW, per48 Shawne OUTREBOUNDED Granger this year (7.2 to 6.6) and was virtually the same on assists (2 to 1.9). Danny was better in steals and blocks, but again that goes with my point that one on one Danny is the stronger defender. He's shown pretty strong instincts for shot blocks and his one on one defense actually is the closest thing to Pippen he has shown so far.
    .
    I haven't noticed those things, you are observant.

    Shawne USUALLY plays mop up minutes against reserves.
    Danny plays against starters ALL the time, guards the opponents best shooter AND has had to play outside all year. Kind of hard to get offensive rebounds when you're 23' away.
    No way can you compare 48 minute figures for a starter vs a bench player.

  19. #44

    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Here's a question for the unabashing and reasonable Granger fans..


    What exactly makes GRANGER better than WILLIAMS? I guess I'm curious to what people think. I know people think Shawne hasn't proved himself, but what is Granger proving so well that, without giving Shawne a fair look, ranks Granger as the better of the two?

    How about tangibles? Name a category you think Granger holds the edge in:

    Shooting
    Dribbling
    Passing
    Post Game
    Running
    One-on-one defense
    Team defense
    Team offense
    Rebouding
    Hustle

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by maragin View Post
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    It's kind of tough to really gauge a rookie that doesn't see a ton of playing time. Often enough, a rookie gets lots of playing time on a bad team.

    And yes he did get more PT as we regressed into a bad team.

    NBA.com listed the top 30 rookies, and Shawne wasn't on the list.

    Brandon Roy
    Rudy Gay
    Andrea Bargnani
    Paul Millsap
    LaMarcus Aldridge
    Jorge Garbajosa
    Craig Smith
    Randy Foye
    Rajon Rondo
    Adam Morrison
    Tyrus Thomas
    Renaldo Balkman
    Sheldon Williams
    Marcus Williams
    Walter Herrmann
    Sergio Rodriguez
    Tarence Kinsey
    Mickael Gelabale
    Jordan Farmar
    Daniel Gibson
    Kelenna Azubuike
    Josh Boone
    Ronnie Brewer
    Rodney Carney
    Mardy Collins
    Yakhouba Diawara
    Ersan Ilyasova
    Alexander Johnson
    J.J. Redick
    Thabo Sefolosha

    I think that with some playing time he would have cracked the top 20. I too wondered about our logjam at the 3. I'd look for him to get quality backup minutes next year, maybe as the 7th or 8th off the bench. If we make some large moves, including moving Granger, that obviously changes.

    By next year, I hope we could look at the sophs and say that he's in the top 20 of his class. If we can say top 10, I'll consider him another draft steal.
    Tyrus Thomas would be in my top 10.

    Shawne seems like he's willing to learn and man when he shoots that 3 --

    you know it's going in.
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  21. #46

    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
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    I think he needs to bulk up,

    FWIW, Granger and Williams are 3 lbs apart at the same height.

  22. #47
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Here's a question for the unabashing and reasonable Granger fans..


    What exactly makes GRANGER better than WILLIAMS? I guess I'm curious to what people think. I know people think Shawne hasn't proved himself, but what is Granger proving so well that, without giving Shawne a fair look, ranks Granger as the better of the two?

    How about tangibles? Name a category you think Granger holds the edge in:

    Shooting
    Dribbling
    Passing
    Post Game
    Running
    One-on-one defense
    Team defense
    Team offense
    Rebouding
    Hustle
    Granger is playing more against starters, so comparisons are difficult at best. All of this is up in the air...but with that in mind, right now I think DG has the edge in the following:
    Post game
    Defense (in general, not by much tho)
    Physical strength (again, not by much)
    Shot blocking (DG has shown a little more fire)

    SW has the edge in the following:
    Shooting (this is the area Shawne really shines)
    Passing
    Offense (merely potential at this point. He has much to prove, but seems to have better awareness)

    Not sure about the following:
    Running
    Rebounding
    Hustle

    I really think talent-wise that Shawne could be better, but he's not there yet. In a year, we will know a lot more about Shawne Williams.

  23. #48

    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    First point, in man-defense Granger is better, yeah. But in terms of defensive awareness Williams is already ahead, as far as positioning and so forth. Second point, I can't agree with at all. Williams is (easily) the better athlete, from what I've seen. DG's main weakness is his slow feet and weak dribble, two things that haven't shown up as flaws for Williams (yet).

    I said that Williams appears to have the better basketball IQ between the two of them, which means he'll probably be a better team defender, but in terms of guarding an elite SF, there's no comparison.

    I also found some of their respective drill times from the NBA combine. This could get messy, but here goes


    Vertical leap: Williams, 31"; Granger, 34"

    Lane Agility Drill: Williams, 10.69; Granger, 10.84

    3/4 Court Sprint: Williams, 3.3; Granger, 3.34


    Just looking at those stats as they are, you see that Granger is a better leaper, and Williams is negligibly quicker in the other two drills they were both involved in. But keep in mind that the reason Granger fell to us is because during the combine his knee was at about 80%, whereas the stats for Williams were with him being completely healthy.

    I'd also like to point out a quirk regarding Mr. Williams. In his combine last year, he is one of the very, very few players with a better standing vertical than if allowed to take a running leap. The guys at DraftExpress commented on it as wierd then, and I've been trying to think of why you would be a better leaper standing still than running, and the only thing I can think of is that Shawne possibly has poor body control while sprinting. I haven't seen enough of him in this situation, but I'm very curious to see how he handles driving to the hoop, and more importantly, making the last couple dribbles to beat his man on a fast break.

    I think you'd have a hard time, based on facts, convincing anyone that Williams is a better athlete than Granger. And when you tack "easily" on there, well.....let's just say that I strongly disagree.

  24. #49

    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    I agree with a few of the of the posts here.... Shawne gets an incomplete grade.

    Not enough playing time to really see what the Blue & Gold have for sure in this guy yet. Showed flashes, disappeared at times. But just not enough exposure to really see what the future holds yet.

    With SF and PF really deep in terms of bodies, any offseason moves will have a big impact on his development next year. Assuming at least one of O'Neal, Murphy, and/or Dunleavy is gone for 2007-08, I'd bet on Williams playing about 16-18 minutes a night, 6.5 to 7.5 PPG, 3.5 to 4 RPG. More importantly, he needs to find a consistent role and substitution pattern in the rotation.

    For all intensive purposes, without a 2007 1st rounder and at his young age after early entry, Shawne is our 2007 first round pick.

    As for 2006-07, incomplete.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Your impressions of Shawne Williams

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    I like them both and look forward to watching them develop together.....






    My plan is for #2 son to sport a #4 jersey next season to replace his #32 (#3 the 2nd time, which replaced his Euro #3). My daughter has a #33 that replaced #1. Eldest son wears #'s 11 and 7.

    Look for a blockbuster deal involving all jerseys mentioned.......
    You need to buy the jerseys and the numbers seperately and then get a roll of that sew on velcro stuff. You are trade/cut proof then.

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