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Thread: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    The Boobkitties beat the Heat in Miami tonight in Wade's return. For what it's worth.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Too bad that doesn't get us a draft pick...
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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    Too bad that doesn't get us a draft pick...
    It does next year. If you keep it now you lose it later, so you can thank this team's effort when you are watching the draft next year or the year after and the Pacers actually have a pick.

    Danny, Shawne, Ike...how many more prospects do you want on the floor right now? This isn't the NBA-DL you know.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    The Cats have been playing very well lately - although the game they played against us wasn't one of their better ones

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    It does next year. If you keep it now you lose it later, so you can thank this team's effort when you are watching the draft next year or the year after and the Pacers actually have a pick.

    Danny, Shawne, Ike...how many more prospects do you want on the floor right now? This isn't the NBA-DL you know.
    I want as many prospects as we can get, because right now this team is going nowhere. Unfortunately, you're right, this is the real NBA and it actually matters, and our team sucks.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    It does next year. If you keep it now you lose it later, so you can thank this team's effort when you are watching the draft next year or the year after and the Pacers actually have a pick.

    Danny, Shawne, Ike...how many more prospects do you want on the floor right now? This isn't the NBA-DL you know.
    I'd much rather give up a pick in the weaker draft than the two, and hopefully a pick farther down the line than 11-14.

    Giving up the 20+ wouldn't feel nearly as bad as giving up the 11th in a draft that looks like deepest in quite some time.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'd much rather give up a pick in the weaker draft than the two, and hopefully a pick farther down the line than 11-14.

    Giving up the 20+ wouldn't feel nearly as bad as giving up the 11th in a draft that looks like deepest in quite some time.
    This is the only counterpoint to Seth's argument. However, this would assume that we would drastically improve in a year or two.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Do you think we will have money in 3 years to sign anyone of these great prospects or is it a 3 to 4 year rental?

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    It's always (well, usually) easier to re-sign your own guys than to sign a FA leaving another team.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    My point is that you have to have the cash to make it happen. So far we have overpaid greatly for some average talent. Makes me worry that when it comes to resigning our future draft picks we will be out of money to make it happen.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    We will never "be out of money" when it comes to re-signing out own guys. If TPTB think they're worth what they're about to get in a new deal, they can and will spend it because you can go over the cap to re-sign your own players.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    We will never "be out of money" when it comes to re-signing out own guys. If TPTB think they're worth what they're about to get in a new deal, they can and will spend it because you can go over the cap to re-sign your own players.
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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    :bradmiller:
    As you well know, I know all about that mess. I believe they didn't feel he was worth it, and that if they did, he would have remained a Pacer.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
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    As you well know, I know all about that mess. I believe they didn't feel he was worth it, and that if they did, he would have remained a Pacer.
    I know you know.

    The point, though, is that you DO run out of money. It's not a bottomless pit, and they're not going to pay the Luxury Tax unless they're winning a championship.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I know you know.

    The point, though, is that you DO run out of money. It's not a bottomless pit, and they're not going to pay the Luxury Tax unless they're winning a championship.
    However, you can't have this mentality. It is very rare for players you draft in the first round not to sign an extension. Almost everything is done in the team's favor. FA don't usually leave until after their second contract or during their second contract via trade. And by that time we will have cleared room needed to avoid any Brad Miller debacles.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    If they thought he was worth it, they would and could have paid him. It's not like they just "couldn't".

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I know you know.

    The point, though, is that you DO run out of money. It's not a bottomless pit, and they're not going to pay the Luxury Tax unless they're winning a championship.
    No, it is a bottomless pit, just not a money pit. Why should the Pacers overpay for players? They have done it and we all get upset by it. They didn't bite on Brad and Peja, those are good things even though I would have loved for Brad to stay at the time.

    This is where my argument against the trade is strong as well, Jack and Al going into this summer would be more moveable as contracts than Dun/Murph. More so when people associate where the 2 teams went after that trade; doesn't exactly make a case for the value of Dun/Murph's deal(s).


    But back to the point, if DG, Shawne or Ike are earning the pay then they'll get it. Unlike Brad they are young and apparently healthy with no reason to expect otherwise in the next 6-7 years. If Peja had been healthy they might have thought about it, and he would have been kept if he was 26 and healthy.

    The guy who they might balk at resigning would be JO, an expensive, aging vet, not exactly TPTB favorite thing to keep.


    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    This is the only counterpoint to Seth's argument. However, this would assume that we would drastically improve in a year or two.
    Exactly. For me it's too much of people talking about "sure things" in defense of tank strategies. It's the freaking NBA draft. Sure things and NBA draft are almost a contradiction. Just as getting the top pick is a huge crap shoot too, and that's about the only place a person can be sure of what they take.

    As I said elsewhere, I did watch the Chinese kid in the WBC and while he's very athletic with the ball and I would have interest in the Pacers taking him, I can see him being a slightly better Baston too. Is that really worth tanking now for and giving up a pick in a future draft?

    And what if the pick does as much for the Pacers as they have for the Hawks, Clips (they got better by trades/FA), Warriors (see Clips), Bucks, Portland, Minnesota, or Memphis? What happens when Foye or Smith or Bogut or Roy don't make the team any better and they remain in the bottom 10. Eventually Atlanta is going to get a great pick, and we just don't know what the draft 3 years from now is going to look like. Maybe a guy like Darren Collison is there next year but Atlanta takes our #9 while Acie Law flops.

    You just don't know, yet people are "investing" in these things like it's a basic formula of certainty.


    If I knew 100% that the pick this year would be better than any other year and the players available with this pick would definitely be better and more helpful to the Pacers needs than the future pick they will give up, then of course I'd want them to choose that path. But no one is certain and in the meantime it sours the fanbase more to keep losing, especially if the draft doesn't fix the situation.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    On other note, prior to the season I felt strong about Charlotte's chances. So much for that. Speaking of draft picks not helping, they've only added Okafur, May, Felton and Morrison, no reason to put high expectations on that level of talent, right?

    And just consider this, who is the best player on the Bobcats? Gerald Wallace. What pick did they use to get him?

    That's right, Kings took him 25th in the 2001 draft (Pacers took no one because they gave up a protected pick 2 years before to get Foster in the draft...hmm, a pick biting you in the rear a few years later, that sounds familiar...the Warriors used it on Murph, the Pacers then traded for Tinsley).

    The draft is crazy and even having a ton of top picks doesn't mean you'll get out of the cellar or that they will help you very much.

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    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    The Bobcats have been playing very well lately. I think they have won something like 8 out of the last 12 or something.

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    Default Re: For anyone poo-pooing the win in Charlotte...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Do you think we will have money in 3 years to sign anyone of these great prospects or is it a 3 to 4 year rental?
    By the time these young players earn the extension on their rookie contracts, our biggest contracts(JO, Murphy, Dunleavy, etc.) will be gone or soon expiring, if we want. The luxury tax threshold may also be significantly higher; I doubt it will be lower.

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