View Poll Results: If you could undo the trade with Golden State, would you?

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  • Yes, I want Al and Jack (and Runi) back.

    21 38.18%
  • No, it was the right decision and I stand by it.

    34 61.82%
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Thread: Let's revisit the trade...

  1. #1
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Let's revisit the trade...

    So, with all that's happened since the Golden State "blockbuster deal," what are your thoughts on the trade? Does it differ from your initial reaction to the trade?

    I was slightly against the trade when it happened, but I have a feeling that Al and Jack were more of a locker room problem than we'll ever know. It's also difficult to gauge the trade appropriately since Quis has been missing for so long. However, if I had to make a choice with what knowledge is public now, I would not do the trade. I still don't believe Al and Jack were the answer here, but I think we could have gotten a better deal for either (or both) in the offseason. Really, I do. Either way, as I said when the trade first happened, locking into Murphleavey's contracts was a terrible, terrible mistake that will likely hinder us for years.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    this is obvious. who has the worst record in the nba since the trade?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    I'm still glad they're gone.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    I voted....'nuff said.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    I was done with Jackson, no need for his antics anymore.

    I do wish I could have Al back, though.

    Very glad we don't have Jackson anymore.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    The Warriors absolutely obliterated this franchise with the trade. GSW fans feel Stephen will be a fringe All-Star next season after a training camp with Nellie (whom probably agrees, given his considerable praise for him all the time). Al, even with his rebounding and defensive inconsistency, has shown to be a viable offensive option most nights and provides a lot of good-natured personality. Sarunas has been useless to say the least, but Powell has sparked a few solid performances off the bench in limited minutes.

    Also, I continually wonder how people consider Stephen Jackson a bad locker room influence. Sure, his temper gets in the way and his impending felony emits a bad vibe, but the only two crimes he ever committed were in direct correlation with his Pacers teammates and feeling (unjustly, even I can admit that) he needed to protect them. Otherwise, Tim Duncan called him the "ultimate teammate" and he is already a leader on the Warriors.

    We lost JO's best friend and a top-25 scorer 2 years in a row (of which consisted of post All-Star splits of 24 and 22 PPG). We gained two incredibly pedestrian players with terrible salaries that will only hinder this team's progress in the forseeable future.

    I understand most Pacers fans loathed Stephen Jackson and his so-called "image" - but I still absolutely hate this trade right now as much as I did on January 17.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    Let me make sure I understand this correctly. Those of you who are voting that "Yes, I want Al and Jack (and Runi) back". You truly would want Jackson back on this team. I find that hard to believe.

    Should I start a thread about whether we want Artest back.

    Pacers are 31-40. I say if the trade didn't happen they'd have maybe 33 or 34 wins. To those of you who believe this trade somehow "ruined the team" I think you are being extremely shortsighted.

    One last thing. We are only talking about 1 year - that is the difference in the contract length between Dun and Murph vs Jax and Al. Some of you act like it is 3 or 4 years

    Pacers had to get rid of Jax - anyone who disagrees with that I think is a little bit well .....I won't finish that sentence.


    Edit: After thinking about this, I think the poll is flawed. There should be a third choice. Something like, "I did not like the trade - but no I don't want Al, Jax, Saras and Josh back on the team"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    Briefly, I would say that Jackson had a very rough ride in Indy, and it was probably better for both parties to sever ties. It seems to me that his trade value was incredibly low and the Pacers were just thrilled to get rid of him for whatever we could. I miss the passion he brought to the game and his defensive tenacity, but I don't miss it when that behavior accelerated into unnecessary emotional outbursts. He was an inconsistent shooter, and the Pacers seemed to almost overutilize him and live or die based on if Jax2 had an on or off night. I always believed that instead of clearing room for Marquis to play, that we should have started Marquis in the first place at SG with Granger at SF and give Jackson a reduced role as the 6th man (while trading Harrington), where I think he really would have thrived and we would not have had to depend so much on his inconsistent shot to dicate whether or not we would win games.

    I've always liked Harrington okay, but he really didn't seem to fit into our system the second time around. He is a very talented guy, but like JO he overestimates his ability to be a viable first option in the offense which can lead to him chucking up some dumb shots. RC failed in two ways with Harrington, firstly being that he never seemed to draw up a coherent offense that adjusted to the fact that JO and Harrington were both on the floor, secondly he never really seemed to establish with Harrington that he wasn't our first option on offense. It was a bizarre situation.

    Saranus was utterly terrible to watch, but his contract ends at the end of next year and he provides a decent warm body, so we probably should have just ridden it out until next year. His futility is definately shown by his lack of playing time at GS.

    All that being said, we got two roleplayers with gigantic contracts, a 3rd string PG who has failed to distinguish himself in any way shape or form, and a questionable tweener who may or may not be something special. So yes, I am a little disappointed.
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  9. #9
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    I don't know how to vote. My option's not there. Give Jack, keep Al. Or, if we have to give up Al in this deal, how bout we get somebody who can actually play a little back?

    From a talent and consistency standpoint there's no question we got hosed. Ike is iffy at best from a potential basis. McLeod is completely non-descript and Murhphleavy are way overpaid for how absolutely mediocre they are. At best 2nd unit players in the NBA. Between those two and Tins we've got possibly the three worst on-ball defenders in the league as startes (sometimes).

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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    i voted yes just because of Runi. not so much for the other 3
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    Nellie's system isn't the most complicated for players that can shoot the ball. Jax and Al were always going to look good in that system. However, without playing any defense they are at best a 1st round and out team. When they get a coach who wants to build some defense into what the Warriors do, they are going to come up against a capable but highly distractable Jackson and unmotivated or unable to defend Harrington.

    Apart from all the other images issues with Jackson and the friction between Al and JO about 'being the man' their defensive lapses are the reasons they will struggle to ever get back to a contending team. Al when he was 6th man with the Pacers and Jax when he was with the Spurs had very well defined roles and when they weren't on their coaches had players who they could replace them with.

    Rebuilding this team was never going to be a quick fix scenario.

    I think we should give Dunleavy, Murphy and Ike atleast a training camp before people start to declare that the Warriors utterly beat us down in this trade.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    I would undo it and try to find a better trade. Draft picks, expiring contracts, anything but 2 overpaid soft non D playing stiffs. Ike has also been disappointing.

    I'd much rather have Runi back, McLeod might be the worse player I've seen on the Pacers in 10+ years.

    At the moment we are the worst team in the entire NBA, sickening.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbry View Post
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    The Warriors absolutely obliterated this franchise with the trade. GSW fans feel Stephen will be a fringe All-Star next season after a training camp with Nellie (whom probably agrees, given his considerable praise for him all the time).

    Also, I continually wonder how people consider Stephen Jackson a bad locker room influence. Sure, his temper gets in the way and his impending felony emits a bad vibe, but the only two crimes he ever committed were in direct correlation with his Pacers teammates and feeling (unjustly, even I can admit that) he needed to protect them. Otherwise, Tim Duncan called him the "ultimate teammate" and he is already a leader on the Warriors.

    I understand most Pacers fans loathed Stephen Jackson and his so-called "image" - but I still absolutely hate this trade right now as much as I did on January 17.
    I pretty much agree. I've been to several games this year and have watched on the jumbotron as the Pacers "get psyched up" in the tunnel before they come out. Jackson's enthusiasm at game time was infectious, and he always got teamates stoked before the game. Now a couple of players jump around and come out without much feeling at all, and hardly take care of business. Not to mention that Jackson was a somewhat viable option to take the last shot. Who is left to do that now?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    Jackson was the most competitive player we had, he wanted to win. Our team misses that more than ever, the fans were just not willing to forgive Jackson for his "bad behavior" so it was a bad situation. Still Jackson and Harrington are both way better players than Murphy or Dunleavy and nobody is questioning that. I don't think Diogu is going to be anything special.

    I don't expect the Pacers to be a good team for a long time and it sucks, but theres nothing to be done about it. Just accept it.

    We would have been much better off getting rid of Tinsley and Jermaine. We could of probably gotten Garnett if we would of traded Tins/Jermaine/Granger for Garnett plus filler/draft picks. That is my opinion.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    Quote Originally Posted by skyfire View Post
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    Nellie's system isn't the most complicated for players that can shoot the ball. Jax and Al were always going to look good in that system. However, without playing any defense they are at best a 1st round and out team. When they get a coach who wants to build some defense into what the Warriors do, they are going to come up against a capable but highly distractable Jackson and unmotivated or unable to defend Harrington.

    Apart from all the other images issues with Jackson and the friction between Al and JO about 'being the man' their defensive lapses are the reasons they will struggle to ever get back to a contending team. Al when he was 6th man with the Pacers and Jax when he was with the Spurs had very well defined roles and when they weren't on their coaches had players who they could replace them with.

    Rebuilding this team was never going to be a quick fix scenario.

    I think we should give Dunleavy, Murphy and Ike atleast a training camp before people start to declare that the Warriors utterly beat us down in this trade.
    First, weren't Dun, Murph and Ike in that same system. Are you saying they can't shoot? I hope they can because they aren't in the NBA for defensive reasons.

    Second, give them training camp? What about the former Pacers, training camp won't help them? Or are they so good they didn't need camp to get up to speed?

    I didn't need to see another year to know the Pacers fleeced Dallas on the Detlef for Herb trade. I didn't need even a half season to realize that trading Jax away to get Rose was a huge mistake. I didn't need more than a few months to realize that the JO for Dale deal was actually very nice for the Pacers.

    Let's stop p***yfooting around on this. You might not like Jack, you might like him gone, but given the ONLY option of having THAT deal done or not done (doesn't prevent other deals from getting done later) how can you not see that this was a freaking mistake.

    They overreacted to losing Peja for nothing, tried to fix the image by forcing Al in, tried to appease his complaints and the fans problems with Jackson with another attitude trade, and within a single year have dropped the talent level to nothing.


    RC was coaching this team last year too and with JO hurting they still hung in to push into the playoffs. You saw what this team did vs that NJ team, at least last year they won 2 and put up a good fight in game 6 despite tons of problems.

    That shows just how much less talent there is now.


    I'm sorry, but scoreboard is the thermometer and it says this deal was horrible for the Pacers. You don't even have a decent contract situation to fall back on. The Warriors are more liquid and don't have to tank just to keep a pick.

    If you keep Jack and he's found guilty then you void his contract and make a dent into the cap. If he's not then it proves that maybe he was wrongly criticized (given the fact that Dino was already convicted). Either way you win for sticking with him.

    Al was complaining and being problematic, but he was still playing ultimately. Bird wants to talk tough and talk discipline, well just bench his rear or make Rick do it. His contract is still nicer than Dun or Murphs.

    Saras is a better offensive guard than McLeod.

    Ike has shown me nothing more than Powell has (though Powell is a different type of big, more of a JO/face up type).



    Couldn't the Pacers have sent all those guys to Philly for AI and then moved AI to DEN for Dre?

    Well they certainly can't do it now, they rushed into a deal even though much better ones were still out there if only a team had the patience and foresight to find them.

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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    The worst move we have done in a while, and thats saying something.

  17. #17
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    Quote Originally Posted by skyfire View Post
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    Nellie's system isn't the most complicated for players that can shoot the ball. Jax and Al were always going to look good in that system. However, without playing any defense they are at best a 1st round and out team. When they get a coach who wants to build some defense into what the Warriors do, they are going to come up against a capable but highly distractable Jackson and unmotivated or unable to defend Harrington.

    Apart from all the other images issues with Jackson and the friction between Al and JO about 'being the man' their defensive lapses are the reasons they will struggle to ever get back to a contending team. Al when he was 6th man with the Pacers and Jax when he was with the Spurs had very well defined roles and when they weren't on their coaches had players who they could replace them with.

    Rebuilding this team was never going to be a quick fix scenario.

    I think we should give Dunleavy, Murphy and Ike atleast a training camp before people start to declare that the Warriors utterly beat us down in this trade.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Couldn't the Pacers have sent all those guys to Philly for AI and then moved AI to DEN for Dre?
    I don't think that the Sixers would have taken that deal.

    Although SJax and Harrington are talented players.....the Sixers wanted to rebuild ( with draft picks and Expiring Contracts )....not reload.

    I will agree with you that we got shafted on this deal.....but I agree with everyone that I think it was something that had to be done. I just wish that we somehow got Pietrus in the deal.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    I think Granger-Harrington-O'Neal with another head coach was wonderful.

    Before the trade the Pacers were 20-19 and the playoff were extremely sure, no?
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Let's revisit the trade...

    What makes you people think that if Jack and Al were still here they would have won any more games than the present players?

    I AM GLAD THAT JACK IS GONE PERIOD!

    The trade happened, and their is no do over. Quit whining and move on!

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