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Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

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  • #1

    Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

    In particular, the areas in bold...

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...hes/index.html

    Ready for his close-up
    Iavaroni works into position to become a head coach
    Posted: Thursday March 29, 2007 11:01AM; Updated: Thursday March 29, 2007 5:34PM

    It is just past 6 a.m. in Phoenix and Marc Iavaroni is already in his office.

    "That goes back to my Stan Van Gundy days,'' says Iavaroni, referring to his three seasons as an assistant with the Miami Heat. "I'd get to the office at 7:30 in the morning, and I'd be the last coach there.''

    He kept arriving earlier and earlier until he realized that Van Gundy, as Pat Riley's lead assistant, was coming in shortly after 6 a.m. "And that,'' Iavaroni says, "was in the summertime.''

    Everything Iavaroni can write on his résumé has been earned the hard way. The 6-foot-8 forward spent three years in Europe before playing his way into the NBA as a 26-year-old rookie starter for the 1982-83 champion Philadelphia 76ers, launching his seven-year career.

    Today Iavaroni is the top assistant to Suns coach Mike D'Antoni, and arguably the No. 1 candidate heading into the summer free-for-all for NBA head-coaching positions, with as many as six jobs potentially available. (For other top candidates, click here.)

    This opportunity arrives after a long decade of working his way up the staffs of three Coaches of the Year -- Mike Fratello in Cleveland (1997-99), Riley ('99-02) and D'Antoni.

    The overriding question is whether Iavaroni's renowned intensity will be his strength or his weakness as a head coach. Is he too demanding to develop a long-term partnership with NBA players? He is aware of that issue, which is why he is proud of his four seasons with D'Antoni, who has helped broaden Iavaroni's relationships with players as well as his vision for how the game should be played.

    "I'm a perfectionist,'' admits Iavaroni, 50. "I always have to remind myself that you can't be a perfectionist with everyone else all the time, that it's too much. I've learned that you have to pick your spots.

    "I really like being a cheerleader for players. I love when they do things right, and applauding it, and I've learned that's a lot more motivational than stopping practice and teaching and telling them all of the things they didn't do. You don't want to stop practice -- I learned that from Mike. You want these guys to play it out.

    "I've learned that you've got to be positive,'' adds Iavaroni, who then tells a story from his first coaching season in 1992-93 as an assistant at Bowling Green to Jim Larranaga (who last year took George Mason to the Final Four). While meeting with his players during a rough stretch, Larranaga opened the floor for comments.

    "One of the players said, 'Everybody's cool but coach Iavaroni -- you're negative,' '' Iavaroni recalls. "Here I was a neophyte coach, but I'd been a pro player, and now a guy at a mid-major said I was negative. I had a hard time believing him.

    "But it was an epiphany. I realized you've got to treat them like you like them and believe in them, and if you show confidence in them, they'll respond. At the end of the year, one of the players told me, 'You've turned it around.' ''

    No coach is without a blind spot. They all need help shoring up their areas of weakness. When Iavaroni is running his own team, he would do well to hire a staff led by someone like current Suns assistant Alvin Gentry, a former head coach who relates to people and who would help Iavaroni realize when to take his foot off the gas.

    "Pat Riley had the players playing good defense, and Mike Fratello was also a great defensive coach,'' Iavaroni says. "But being with Mike [D'Antoni] has been like a finishing school for me, not just in his offensive ideas and how to get players to play confidently and freely and creatively, but Mike is also really good at having a strong bond with players without crossing a line. He's a great listener.

    "I used to be a really conservative coach, just a defensive guy because that's what got me playing time. Now with Mike I realize the best part is when you turn a player onto himself. I would rather have a few less plays and defensive schemes, but really believe in the players and believe they will figure it out. If you're focusing on the X's and O's, that means you're figuring it out all the time. The players have got to be the ones to figure it out.''

    There may be questions of what has taken Iavaroni so long to earn a head-coaching offer. If he is so strong a candidate, then why have the past two summers come and gone without an offer coming his way?

    But this as a ridiculous perspective. Since when has on-the-job experience ever been a weakness? When Larry Bird stepped down as coach in 2000 after three winning years with the Pacers, he admitted that he still had a lot to learn about running an NBA team. If he was ever going to return as a head coach -- which he swore would never happen -- he said he'd want to spend an extended period as an assistant learning from one of the best NBA coaches. In this era of celebrity hires, Iavaroni is someone who is working to meet Bird's high standard of apprenticeship.

    (To finish the context, Bird is applying the same course of study to his new career as a team executive by spending the last four years as understudy to Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh.)

    "He'll be a great head coach,'' says D'Antoni. "The biggest thing he has going for him is his passion for the game and his work ethic. I guarantee you no one will outwork him.''

    Another promising sign from Iavaroni is that he isn't willing to make promises he can't keep. When I ask whether his team would seek to play Rileyesque defense as well as D'Antoni-paced offense, he says, "I'm not sure you can do it. The players have a finite amount of energy. I would figure it out when I'd see the team I have, whether we were going to be more into defense or more into offense and running.

    "But we played 110 games last year [including the Suns' preseason and playoff schedules] and I don't think you can expect guys to be balls-out every minute at both ends. You have to accept certain limitations, otherwise you get players who are not effective and pissed off. While you want to consistently push players, you've got to know what's reasonable. You want to get it right to that edge of asking too much.''

    Iavaroni would prefer to coach a running team. "I really believe teams are at their weakest [defensively] at the beginning of the shot clock,'' he says. "Teams are not set defensively, it's exciting to watch and it's democratic, though you can still get the ball to your best players. But to do that you've got to have skilled players and shooters and people who are good at running. If you have a bunch of slow guys, obviously it's not going to work. I'd want to be with a GM who likes to run, who wants to run, and who's always going to be on the lookout for players who run well and play at that pace.''
    Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team. -- Scottie Pippen
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  • #2
    Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

    While D'Antoni is a brilliant coach, and his style has been a sorely-needed breath of fresh air for the NBA, I would like to point out that the style of play epitomized by Pat Riley, Van Gundy, and yes, Rick Carslisle, has had a successful 20 year track record in the NBA. Let's take a minute before we cast doubt on the whole style, as opposed to just the particular personalities involved.
    2010 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champion Baltimore Bulldogs

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    • #3
      Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

      Originally posted by Bulldog
      While D'Antoni is a brilliant coach, and his style has been a sorely-needed breath of fresh air for the NBA, I would like to point out that the style of play epitomized by Pat Riley, Van Gundy, and yes, Rick Carslisle, has had a successful 20 year track record in the NBA. Let's take a minute before we cast doubt on the whole style, as opposed to just the particular personalities involved.
      I see players running thru walls for the first two names you mentioned because they have personalities and people skills that have proven to work with their players, but Carlisle's "style" isn't working here and I'm tired of taking hits on talent to get players to make Carlisle's style work here. It's just time for a new message and messenger.

      Anyway, I'm ready for a coaching staff that will develop our players better then what we have. Once more, Rick is a good coach, but not the right guy for our current and future situation.
      ...Still "flying casual"
      @roaminggnome74

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      • #4
        Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

        I found the following to be the most profound statement from the interview:

        "If you're focusing on the X's and O's, that means you're figuring it out all the time. The players have got to be the ones to figure it out.''

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

          Originally posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
          Well, to be short...Carlisle's "style" isn't working here and I'm tired of taking hits on talent to get players to make Carlisle's style work here.
          Do you really think that is why Artest, Jackson and Harrington were traded? I certainly don't. Sure there was a lot of talk about Dunleavy and Murphy "fitting the system". But that had all to do with JO, not Rick Carlisle.

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          • #6
            Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

            Originally posted by NuffSaid View Post
            I found the following to be the most profound statement from the interview:

            "If you're focusing on the X's and O's, that means you're figuring it out all the time. The players have got to be the ones to figure it out.''
            It's pretty easy to let players as talented as Steve Nash to figure it out. All our problems would be cured if we were able to switch out Tinsley and Nash.

            I wouldn't give Jamaal the keys to my car so he could get me a hamburger, let alone keys to my NBA team.
            “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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            • #7
              Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

              Originally posted by jcouts View Post
              In particular, the areas in bold...


              Another promising sign from Iavaroni is that he isn't willing to make promises he can't keep. When I ask whether his team would seek to play Rileyesque defense as well as D'Antoni-paced offense, he says, "I'm not sure you can do it. The players have a finite amount of energy. I would figure it out when I'd see the team I have, whether we were going to be more into defense or more into offense and running.

              I'm not sure why you want Rick to read this article unless you want him to read about his possible replacement.


              I think the paragraph above is the most interesting. It is true, you can't get a team to play defense like the Spurs, and at the same time run like the Suns. Teams don't have that much energy, unless you play everybody 24 minutes and rotate players in and out.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                Do you really think that is why Artest, Jackson and Harrington were traded? I certainly don't. Sure there was a lot of talk about Dunleavy and Murphy "fitting the system". But that had all to do with JO, not Rick Carlisle.
                Maybe you're right...maybe I am jumping the gun a bit by saying trades of the past, but I have a hard time believing that the low post offense that Rick runs is the only one out there that will work. Isn't it the coach's job to build an offense that works and then have the players buy into it? He sure sells it, but judging by the players that have left here...none of them were buying.

                Maybe a coach with a little more "people skills" could get these players to actually buy into a system instead of the mess we have now and for the past 2 seasons.
                ...Still "flying casual"
                @roaminggnome74

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

                  Originally posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
                  Maybe you're right...maybe I am jumping the gun a bit by saying trades of the past, but I have a hard time believing that the low post offense that Rick runs is the only one out there that will work. Isn't it the coach's job to build an offense that works and then have the players buy into it? He sure sells it, but judging by the players that have left here...none of them were buying.

                  Maybe a coach with a little more "people skills" could get these players to actually buy into a system instead of the mess we have now and for the past 2 seasons.
                  I like Carlisle on the average.

                  But I really got a bad taste after he did that suck up thing with Jax over the summer saying he was waiting for Jackson to buy in to his coaching before he was ready to move forward. Just seemed weak, especially with all of Jackson's foibles. Bad judgment, lack of confidence, and I'm not sure what else.

                  Still, on the average, I think he's a good coach. But he doesn't seem very street smart.
                  "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

                    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                    I'm not sure why you want Rick to read this article unless you want him to read about his possible replacement.


                    I think the paragraph above is the most interesting. It is true, you can't get a team to play defense like the Spurs, and at the same time run like the Suns. Teams don't have that much energy, unless you play everybody 24 minutes and rotate players in and out.
                    The main reason I think that Rick needs to read the article mainly focuses on the X's and O's paragraph. The handful of games I have been able to watch the Pacers play from Denver this season, the players have just looked like robots, programmed to go through a certain motion, and if that certain motion didn't work, failure was inevitable because they had no clue what to do otherwise. The Sacto game with Armstrong's famous statements was a prime example.

                    It's somewhat comparable to having a boss at work who won't let you put your personal stamp on anything, or limits what the business can do by only implementing their own ideas...or by expecting you to do only what the person in your position before you did. My boss, for example, only knows about 2% of what I know when it comes to programming and database administration...yet, there was a point in time when I wasn't allowed to do anything, or create anything, or propose anything...the only thing I was allowed to do was essentially be the "screwdriver" that put her plans/ideas into place. It limited my effectiveness as an employee and as a team player, and limited the IT resources and advantages of our company. In the corporate workplace, we all know it as micromanagement. In basketball, it's somewhat "Carlisle ball".

                    With the NBA finals squad, the coaches didn't reign in Reggie, Mark, or anyone except maybe Jalen. Carlisle seems to only turn loose players that already have a formed identity, such as JO on the current roster. Most of the rest of our squad is still soul searching for their NBA identity, or trying to establish a new identity. The players in the past that Carlisle has allowed free reign in the offense have all been players with an established identity (JO, Reggie, Mark, Mullin). Those who are soul searching, he reigns in (Jalen, Jamaal, Danny, Ike, Marquis). It strikes a trend of the rich get richer, ie good players get better under Carlisle, while young players don't develop as well. With Detroit, Billups and Hamilton both became superb players under Carlisle...Tayshaun however, didn't become the player he is until Larry Brown stepped in. Inexperienced players are only going to get wiser and better with experience, and I don't think that Carlisle trusts younger players. Hence Tinsley getting replaced with Kenny Anderson and AJ when Carlisle arrived. Sarunas, nothing. Freddie, very little. James Jones, very little. Baston, nothing. Harrison, nothing. While all of that is going on, Darrell Armstrong is earning all sorts of praise and AJ played the best basketball of his life under Carlisle.

                    So, to sum it up, I agree with Iavaroni's statement in that paragraph. I think you have to let the players figure some of it out. Ginobili wasn't that effective of a player until Pop turned him loose...Pop stated that yes, playing that way he would have occasional turnovers, and take a few bad shots, but he would just have to live with it, because the benefits of turning him loose as a whole far outweighed the setbacks of a few turnovers or premature shots. If a player can't play to their instincts, half of their advantages are gone.
                    Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team. -- Scottie Pippen

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

                      Iavaroni would be one of my top choices as our new coach this offseason.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

                        where do i sign this guy up to be our coach ?
                        If you havin' depth problems, I feel bad for you son; I got 99 problems but a bench ain't one! - Hicks
                        [/center]
                        @thatguyjoe84

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                        • #13
                          Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

                          Originally posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
                          I see players running thru walls for the first two names you mentioned because they have personalities and people skills that have proven to work with their players, but Carlisle's "style" isn't working here and I'm tired of taking hits on talent to get players to make Carlisle's style work here. It's just time for a new message and messenger.

                          Anyway, I'm ready for a coaching staff that will develop our players better then what we have. Once more, Rick is a good coach, but not the right guy for our current and future situation.
                          Neither is a coach who thinks the players can make the choices, wants players who can make shots, or expects even a little bit of defensive awareness.

                          Other than that and the fact that the GM he will be working for seems borderline lost at times he'll have no problems in Indy.


                          Meanwhile as B-dog points out, what have the Suns done that Rick's Pacers haven't? Won 60, make the conference finals. Awesome. Hey, we should get that coach that made back to back conference finals with different clubs....err...

                          Maybe once was smoke and mirrors, but twice? Ron Artest goes totally mental for 3 months under Zeke, RC comes in, gets on him early (suspended I think even) and Ron plays a full season with no problems, even catches himself going out to get involved in a brawl and instead turns around. That was just a fluke?

                          How many AS teams has Ron Artest been on? Who got him there? Now tell me a more problematic player in the entire NBA right now.

                          But the coach had nothing to do with that. Just pure coincidence, he showed up just when Ron decided to settle down and dial it in for a year.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

                            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                            But the coach had nothing to do with that. Just pure coincidence, he showed up just when Ron decided to settle down and dial it in for a year.

                            I think it was having Mike Brown around as much as it was Carlisle.


                            Anyways, we can look at the problems, or:

                            Every year since Rick's been here, the Pacers record has decreased.

                            The players started tuning him out long ago; I'd say before the MLK day blowout vs. New Jersey even.

                            Every player that has left here has complained about his coaching style, and Harrington/Jax have not only played at a much higher level, but they've shown much more passion and a willingness to play for their coach. Oh, and Harrington looks physically fit now, since Golden State's training staff cares.




                            Everyone can talk on and on about how the Pacers don't have that much talent, but give me a break. We're not THAT bad..we're no 2-16 bad, and everyone knows it.


                            How many games have we lost because our offense went into a dump it into Jermaine mode, making the opponent rest on defense while we go ice cold and they get red hot?

                            Or, how many times did our worst defender play the ENTIRE second half when defense was our problem?

                            Or, how many times has Rick Carlisle matched Tinsley with Armstrong, Dunleavy, and Murphy, effectively leaving us with our four worst defenders on the floor at the same time?

                            I'm not even getting into the way he has inconsistent rotations, f'ed with Granger's head, or decided to keep Marshall rather than White when he KNEW how bad our PG situation is.

                            I have a lot of respect for Rick, especially with his consistency in his mood, but I think he doesn't know how to use his players effectively. Meanwhile, I'm watching Golden State. We all know Harrington and Jackson can't run the break. So what happens? Nelson holds them back on breaks and lets the other players convert, while leaving Harrington and Jackson effective in the halfcourt.


                            Now I can't think of a coach that would be worth bringing in, but I said over a month ago it was obvious that Rick needed to be gone. And at the time I wondered what it would take for other people to realize it. And I guess at 2-16 it still isn't there. ::shrugs::

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Rick Carlisle, if you check this board, you should read this article...

                              Just look at the last few bolded sentences. You need athletic players, players who can run and who can shoot, and a GM who likes players that do both.

                              THAT does not describe the Pacers at all. And neither has anything to do with Rick Carlisle.

                              This team has exactly one player who can play uptempo and that is Tinsley. Probably Shawne as well. So that's two at best.

                              The Suns have a truly incredible roster, from a talent standpoint. Everyone can run. Everyone can take the ball to the basket. Everyone has range. Everyone can shoot free throws. I mean, from the 1 to the 5 to the bench players.

                              Believe me, I'm all for the run-n-gun style of offense that Phoenix plays. It's part of why I've adopted them as my 2nd favorite team. But there's no way the Pacers could ever do anywhere near that kind of tempo.

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