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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

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We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

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  • #46
    Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

    Originally posted by Arcadian View Post
    I thought it was Reggie we overpaid that kept us from getting Brad.
    It hurts because it's true.
    This space for rent.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

      Originally posted by Los Angeles
      At the time of his signing, there was a near universal agreement that JO belonged in the same elite club as Garnett, Duncan and Shaq.
      Interesting. I don't recall anywhere near such universal agreement but perhaps I'm mistaken. In any case, I've certainly never thought of JO being in that category of star players. I've always rated him in a tier below those guys.

      Jermaine certainly puts up the production in terms of stats where you could put in a higher tier or whatnot. All I know is I've watched a lot NBA ball over the years and Jermaine is pretty damn good but I've never once really felt like I was watching a true franchise player, next level superstar. That isn't really meant as a slight towards JO as I appreciate what he has done for the Pacers. He has matured a great deal during his time here from the days when he had the "head weasal" thing going on and got punked by Kenyon Martin about one big game in the 2002 series vs NJ.

      But top tier star? Nah.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

        How can you say that we overpaid for Reggie, we paid him role player money and obviously he was the leader that held us together for some extent. Plus look what he was capable of during the brawl year.

        We didn't overpay him, we under used him. because this pathetic delusion our team has that the offense had to revolve around 1 person and didn't have room for 2.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

          Originally posted by IMissReggie View Post
          How can you say that we overpaid for Reggie, we paid him role player money and obviously he was the leader that held us together for some extent. Plus look what he was capable of during the brawl year.

          We didn't overpay him, we under used him. because this pathetic delusion our team has that the offense had to revolve around 1 person and didn't have room for 2.
          Role player money? Your memory is fuzzy.

          Btw, any team in the league would have given JO the max back then. Young big? Good offense? Good defense? Sign me up.

          I wouldn't call JO overpaid at all, not considering the market value for bigs in this league. It's ridiculous. Have you ever heard of Troy Murphy?

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

            Originally posted by rexnom View Post
            Role player money? Your memory is fuzzy.
            Check the screen name. He's not going to be impartial.

            There was no doubt by anybody in the league that Jermaine was worth the max. San Antonio would have given him the max if he didn't get it here.

            Talk about no chance for a championship... San An would have it locked up for a decade.
            This space for rent.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

              Originally posted by Anthem View Post
              Check the screen name. He's not going to be impartial.

              There was no doubt by anybody in the league that Jermaine was worth the max. San Antonio would have given him the max if he didn't get it here.

              Talk about no chance for a championship... San An would have it locked up for a decade.
              I doubt it...
              I see a team suddenly unbalanced and with chemistry issues in your scenario.

              -Bball
              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

              ------

              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

              -John Wooden

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                Originally posted by Bball View Post
                I doubt it...
                I see a team suddenly unbalanced and with chemistry issues in your scenario.
                Spurs didn't think so. And they're the best front office in the league.
                This space for rent.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                  Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                  Spurs didn't think so.
                  How serious were the Spurs? Was it ever really confirmed from that side of the aisle? Were they really offering the max that they could offer?

                  That said, it doesn't matter what they thought, we thought, or anyone else. He never reached the rarified air that TPTB of Pacerland thought he was going to hit. The Spurs are probably very happy with the way things worked out.

                  And they're the best front office in the league.
                  But now we have the wisdom of hindsight.

                  I'm so glad this season is almost over.

                  -Bball
                  Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                  ------

                  "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                  -John Wooden

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                    Originally posted by Bball View Post
                    How serious were the Spurs? Was it ever really confirmed from that side of the aisle? Were they really offering the max that they could offer?
                    Very. Yes. Yes.
                    This space for rent.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                      Originally posted by IMissReggie View Post
                      How can you say that we overpaid for Reggie, we paid him role player money and obviously he was the leader that held us together for some extent. Plus look what he was capable of during the brawl year.

                      We didn't overpay him, we under used him. because this pathetic delusion our team has that the offense had to revolve around 1 person and didn't have room for 2.

                      Overpaid=Paying more than market value. Reggie was payed more than his market value in 2003.

                      The Pacers payed Reggie considerably more than any other team would have given him. A team like NJ or LA, who were rumored to be interested in him, probably wouldn't have given him anything above the vet minimum.

                      It was a "thank-you" contract, no doubt about it. But Reggie did earn it on the court in his final season here when he put the Pacers on his back and led them to the postseason.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                        Originally posted by Bball View Post
                        How serious were the Spurs? Was it ever really confirmed from that side of the aisle? Were they really offering the max that they could offer?

                        That said, it doesn't matter what they thought, we thought, or anyone else. He never reached the rarified air that TPTB of Pacerland thought he was going to hit. The Spurs are probably very happy with the way things worked out.


                        -Bball
                        For the love of God! What is that rarified air? He is probably the best player to ever play for the franchise in the NBA. I would accept second-best if you want to put Reggie in front of him. JO's been worth every penny! I still wake up in night sweats with visions off JO walking of a plane in San Antonio and being greeted by Tim Duncan.

                        Don't try to use JO speaking up after the Celtics blowout as a cop-out...obviously this is some sort of deeper vendetta. JO wouldn't have said anything if we were 8-0 and had just beaten the Celtics by 30 and he hadn't even reached double figures. Let's not even pretend that him speaking up was ALL about JO. Have you people maybe confused JO with TO? Seems that way. For that reason, I will be referring to JO as "Jermaine," "O'Neal," or "Jermaine O'Neal" from now on.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                          Originally posted by Los Angeles View Post
                          Jcouts, I like a lot of what you say there. However, I just watched the game and I would definitely blame Tinsley's 4th quarter play for the loss.

                          If anyone is showing stats but not getting wins, it's Tinsley, not JO.
                          I know it's a JO thread, but since at least some people (BBall for one) think I just love Tins or something (despite talking about dumping him even in recent weeks and knocking him plenty) I figured I should address this comment.


                          After the CLE game it hit me and I mentioned elsewhere in fact that Tins' problem to me is that he just falls apart in the 4th. That and his shooting near the rim. Defensively he's not that bad. Guys go by other guys all the time, happens to players like Bibby and Parker plenty.

                          But those PGs can make the shot if they get a good look and will play strong in the 4th. That's what is missing from Tinsley right now, that's all it would take to have him be a functional PG. More so when you consider his modest salary, way way down the list of vet PG contracts.

                          However I'm not sure that's going to happen. He's clearly losing interest in playing here. His game this year is nothing like it was even early last season.


                          Anyway, back to JO discussions.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                            I guess Primo has
                            Nope. Primoz just got playing time, same as JO did coming to Indy. JO's per48 in POR wasn't much different than what he did in Indy that first year. He was a kid that just was stuck on the depth chart.

                            At the time the Pacers left Primoz out there in the expansion it was too PROTECT REGGIE. Otherwise Primoz would have been kept because they knew he had the ability to play. Let Reggie go in the expansion and Primoz is the starting C last year and this (other that injury) for the Pacers and they knew it.

                            They also knew that a guy like Reggie would get taken and that the fans would flip out if that happened.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                              RWB, the problem for JO is simple when it comes to game winners. Teams can put 2 people on him before he even gets the ball. This creates HUGE holes for the rest of the team. That's where Tony Parker makes a team pay and no one on the Pacers does.

                              A stud big still needs the ball fed to him, Shaq, Wilt and Kareem included. If they are truly alone as the offensive threat then they will never see the ball.

                              To me it's a miracle JO gets as many FGAs as he does. He's making shots that only his amazing talent let's him get, because he's not getting the space and freedom that even Smits got to see.


                              Did you ever wonder why JO's best offensive years came with Reggie (and Rose) still playing strong ball on the outside.

                              Without JO the Pacers shot 35% vs NJ. 35%.

                              Did the offense look fluid and open without JO? Is that what we've been promised things would be with JO out of the way? Because frankly it sucked.

                              JO has missed 4 games this month. 4 losses, 3 of them to teams under 500.

                              They are 29-32 when JO plays.
                              They are 2-8 when he doesn't. That's a pace to win 17 games. 17 games I said.

                              Hold on, it's worse than that. Before the trade they were actually only 2-3 without JO.

                              Since the trade they are 0-5 without JO. 4 of those vs sub 500 teams. Whatever 18 extra wins is worth, that's what they need to be paying JO.

                              Heck, he may even be worth 25-30 wins with this current group because they shouldn't be winning any.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: So...JO with back-to-back 30+ point games...

                                Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                                RWB, the problem for JO is simple when it comes to game winners. Teams can put 2 people on him before he even gets the ball. This creates HUGE holes for the rest of the team. That's where Tony Parker makes a team pay and no one on the Pacers does.
                                Seth, I'm not crazy or smart enough to argue with your argument. You're to damn good at it.

                                I will leave you with this.......It must be frustrating for JO to hit a game winner having everyone know they're looking at him to do. Thank goodness what many consider the 2nd best NBA Pacer player in Reggie Miller some how was able to pull off this feat many times. I guess nobody ever expected him to get the ball.
                                You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

                                Comment

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