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Thread: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

  1. #26
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    I didn't get to see this game but something I wanted to comment on. There was someone on here that mentioned Rick must have some sort of a rule that only the point guard can bring the ball up the floor. I had paid attention to it and realized, yeah you could definately make a case for it. The game before this though I seen a couple different players bring the ball up the floor and I was like...did Shawne Williams just bring the ball up the floor? Did dun just bring the ball up the floor? What the hell is rick up to?
    I didn't see this discussion, but it's laughable to me. FOSTER has even brought the ball up at times. Dunleavy did it plenty in the right situations tonight. It's not crazy to want you PG to handle the ball, it's kinda why the dude is on the floor most of the time.

    If a team is all over the PG and another play has it then he appears to have the freedom to go ahead and get it upcourt.

    Once in the halfcourt the PG OFTEN passes to a "true" play starter, the guy who they want to have the ball to start a play. This could be as simple as a give and go with JO, a spot up shooter feeding JO so they can 3 ball behind the double team, or a more complex play that results in the play starter getting the ball back later in the play after a series of screens and cuts.

    And this adjusts as the matchups adjust. Like most coaches RC tends to seek out the favorable option and work plays for it. You didn't see Tins going into the post much tonight after doing it a lot in Houston with a weaker/smaller Alston at the point most of the night. That's why you had Tins go a strong 11-19 for 22 in that game and then only take 3 vs the Heat.

    That and the fact that Dun went 3-13 vs the Houston and 6-10 vs Miami.

  2. #27
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Unexpected but extremely enjoyable domination of an opponent! Now will it turn out to be just another tease type performance?

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Now will it turn out to be just another tease type performance?
    I think you know what the truth is here. We were starving for a win facing an older team without DWade on their back to back...a team that played poorly. Even Charlotte and Memphis win games sometimes.

    ...but the Pacers have started playing better lately and might play good enough to squeek into the playoffs. I think it is incredibly borderline at this point. If they do make it, we will all get the pleasure of seeing Chris Webber and the Deeetroit Pistons make us look foolish. Fine, if that's what people want to see.

    If that happens, next year we will continue to be in PG Hell. Jamaal Tinsley may even run the point into the ground next year, throw a few more balls into the stands, get busted for possession, who knows? The only way we upgrade that position is with moving JO or young talent like Granger or maybe someone will bite on Ike...which I doubt. People don't give away good PG's, which are in short supply.

    ..and JO will be facing a decision. We will be in a serious pickle because his stock is on a downward trend due to injuries. We may not get anything much better than a lump of coal for him. First, we listened to him talk about championships. Now, we listen to him talk about leaving. I think he will be more capable of the latter. If he stays, we get another year of him playing on one leg with Ike Diogu rotting on the bench.

    There will be no light at the end of the tunnel.

  4. #29
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Pacers have been playing better lately. Losing at Houston and at San Antonio is nothing to get too upset about. In fact the Pistons just lost at both of those places this week. The Rockets blew them out.

    This, "playing better lately" doesn't change anything longterm. But I think the Pacers will win another 5 games. After the Pistons game a week from Tuesday, the schedule gets pretty easy.

    More than anything the Pacers played with a lot of intensity and I think that is 3 out of the last 4 games in which they have played pretty hard.

  5. #30
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    If the Pacers squeak into the playoffs I say management goes from "we gotta fix this" mode to "wait and see mode".

    There will still be changes but nothing drastic like what is needed because mission #1 will have been reached- making the playoffs. They'll put some more lipstick on the pig and have someone design a new marketing slogan.

    We must not make the playoffs or get close. We must finish the year on a losing streak... or else next year won't look much different than this year and we'll just keep spinning our wheels in 'wait and see' mode.

    -Bball
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  6. #31
    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    if somehow someway we make the playoffs - I seriously doubt that the Heat would want to play us

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Tonight Dun made me smile all night long. The 3pt shot was a bonus because he's been hit and miss with that, but I'd like to think they can count on his 2pt shot, his offensive aggressiveness, his transition offense (so nice) and his awareness at both ends (even if he doesn't have the ability/agility to defend well) on a regular basis. Tonight they certainly could and it made things go a lot smoother.

    If we saw that from Mike more often the team would be winning more games.
    I liked seeing the blurb in the Star this morning about him staying after to work on his shot. Donnie made an interesting comment during one of those podcasts with Chad Ford this month (I think). Something about Dunleavey isn't a consistent outside shooter YET....

    It'd be great if he developed the 3 pointer as a niche over the next couple of years. He's not a pure shooter, but there's no reason he couldn't get close to 40% if he focused on it as a specialist might....

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If the Pacers squeak into the playoffs I say management goes from "we gotta fix this" mode to "wait and see mode".

    There will still be changes but nothing drastic like what is needed because mission #1 will have been reached- making the playoffs. They'll put some more lipstick on the pig and have someone design a new marketing slogan.

    We must not make the playoffs or get close. We must finish the year on a losing streak... or else next year won't look much different than this year and we'll just keep spinning our wheels in 'wait and see' mode.

    -Bball
    I don't think so. I think Bird and Walsh are well aware that 1) Finishing with a losing record and making the play-offs is still finishing with a losing record, 2) there is a significant drop in attendance, 3) being the 7th or 8th seed in the East only means you're not quite as mediocre as the lottery teams, 4) parts of this team (including coaches and players) aren't going to make us contenders....

  9. #34
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If the Pacers squeak into the playoffs I say management goes from "we gotta fix this" mode to "wait and see mode".

    There will still be changes but nothing drastic like what is needed because mission #1 will have been reached- making the playoffs. They'll put some more lipstick on the pig and have someone design a new marketing slogan.

    We must not make the playoffs or get close. We must finish the year on a losing streak... or else next year won't look much different than this year and we'll just keep spinning our wheels in 'wait and see' mode.

    -Bball
    So one or two extra wins are going to change everything???

    I cannot state how strongly I disagree with you Bball. The only thing that would make TPTB change their mindset to a more wait a see approach is if the Pacers finish the season 10-4 and win the first round of the playoffs. Otherwise significant changes are coming

  10. #35

    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    I agree with Bball 100%.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So one or two extra wins are going to change everything???

    I cannot state how strongly I disagree with you Bball. The only thing that would make TPTB change their mindset to a more wait a see approach is if the Pacers finish the season 10-4 and win the first round of the playoffs. Otherwise significant changes are coming
    Assuming we do not win the first round, which should be an easy assumption for those living in reality....

    How are significant *positive* changes going to be made to this team?

    We need better players. Teams get better personnel by making shrewd trades and getting a star in the draft. Our best players are JO, JT, Quis and Granger. Foster, Williams and Ike might be assets. No one else on this team will bring anything but an average backup.

    Trade JO and you are in full rebuilding mode. I think we need to do this...but with his injuries, we are not going to get a great deal back.

    Trade JT. WTF do you expect to get for him? We will actually have to keep him or unload him by packaging talent alongside.

    Trade Quis. Why would anyone give much for him after his knee problems and his involvement in the last two incidents of bar fights?

    Trade Granger. You are simply trading one asset for another. Why would you trade the best young player on the team anyway?

    Otherwise, it is a crap shoot. Maybe we can package up some players...but I will believe that when I see it.

    If we miss the draft. A top 10 pick in a very deep draft, it will be a shame. It is a golden opportunity...like a double draft due the HS rule.

    This team needs an injection of talent, and I don't see it happening for awhile any other way short of dumping JO. ...but again, he will not bring great value.

  12. #37
    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Man, why does Pacers win when I don't watch the game. . . I really wanted to watch that game lol!!! I'm glad to see Pacers back in the 8th seed, We are better than Orlando and NJ at the moment, we should be in the playoffs. . .And playing Detroit in the 1st round, we could suprise them if it happens


    There's so many talented college players that get slept on. . .u can pick up nyce players in the second round, 1st round picks are usually too hyped up and peoplefocus too much on them!!

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    There's so many talented college players that get slept on. . .u can pick up nyce players in the second round, 1st round picks are usually too hyped up and peoplefocus too much on them!!
    Such as James White perhaps?

    I know drafting isn't a science and I think our first picks the last two years have been good. No I don't care that we didn't get Marcus Williams. I wasn't sold on him and I'm still not.

    However, in the second round I believe there've been guys picked after us that seemingly could have developed into contributors. Dee Brown, Paul Milsap come to mind. Hell, the Alexander Johnson guy produced in Memphis the few times he saw minutes.

    So anyway, speaking of the 2nd round and/or undrafted finds, how about we try and get the Tatum guy from SIU to our training camp. I think he's currently projected as undrafted. Not sure he's really good enough but I like his game.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Assuming we do not win the first round, which should be an easy assumption for those living in reality....

    How are significant *positive* changes going to be made to this team?

    We need better players. Teams get better personnel by making shrewd trades and getting a star in the draft. Our best players are JO, JT, Quis and Granger. Foster, Williams and Ike might be assets. No one else on this team will bring anything but an average backup.

    Trade JO and you are in full rebuilding mode. I think we need to do this...but with his injuries, we are not going to get a great deal back.

    Trade JT. WTF do you expect to get for him? We will actually have to keep him or unload him by packaging talent alongside.

    Trade Quis. Why would anyone give much for him after his knee problems and his involvement in the last two incidents of bar fights?

    Trade Granger. You are simply trading one asset for another. Why would you trade the best young player on the team anyway?

    Otherwise, it is a crap shoot. Maybe we can package up some players...but I will believe that when I see it.

    If we miss the draft. A top 10 pick in a very deep draft, it will be a shame. It is a golden opportunity...like a double draft due the HS rule.

    This team needs an injection of talent, and I don't see it happening for awhile any other way short of dumping JO. ...but again, he will not bring great value.
    Barring a miraculous turnaround and an upset win in the first round I would like to see at minimum a roster absent of JO, JT, and RC to start next season. Your concerns about what we can reasonably expect in return for those two are legit, which disconcerts me b/c IMO they've had their chance and have been unable to get the job done.

    I like most of our young talent enough that I'd hate to see them go first. Yet it seems almost inevitable Williams or Granger would be necessary to net anything significant as you point out. It will be interesting to see if TPTB have any vodoo up their sleeves. My confidence in that possibility is much much less than it used to be, but never say never I suppose.

  15. #40

    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    I can't see us winning a 1st round against DET or CLE. Sorry but No way.
    Great Win tonight though!

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    I love it...the whole fan base doesn't want JO anymore....lovely
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So one or two extra wins are going to change everything???

    I cannot state how strongly I disagree with you Bball. The only thing that would make TPTB change their mindset to a more wait a see approach is if the Pacers finish the season 10-4 and win the first round of the playoffs. Otherwise significant changes are coming
    I'd like to strongly disagree with me too but I just don't trust management to act quickly and decisively. Not if they can find something to hang their hat on and give them reason to 'wait and see'.

    What's worse, after this season's midseason trade didn't save the playoffs but infact looks to have put them in serious jeopardy, I think if we take a wait and see approach this summer (and just put lipstick on the pig) then there will be serious fear to make any sweeping change midseason next year. So we'll be stuck with that pig long after the lipstick has worn off.

    As long as Walsh sits in the ivory tower change will come slowly and only when it's absolutely necessary as the infection has gotten so bad only amputation is left.

    The playoffs alone would be signs of improvement in Walsh's mind.

    We're not a well-managed team.

    -Bball
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  18. #43

    Thumbs up Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    IMO, there are 10 reasons this team won:

    1) They were pretty solid on the defensive end.

    2) They didn't just stick with a half-court game. They threw in multiple offensive schemes...mixed it up. half-court, high screens, baseline screens, PnR.

    3) Players finally moved w/o the ball - ALOT!

    4) Tinsley got everybody involved.

    5) JO passed out of the double-team often. He didn't try powering himself through all of them. Why?

    6) We finally had players cutting to the basket.

    7) Murphleavy/Granger finally got un-cored!

    8) RC didn't call every play. (Did you notice this, UB? I didn't count every play called like you did, but I did notice our PGs weren't looking to the sideline so often.

    9) We were ALOT more aggressive right out the gate!...for 48 minutes even when RC cleared the bench. Everyone continued to put pressure on the Heat throughout the game.

    10) The Heat went cold; Shaq wasn't allowed to dominate; Foster pretty much shut him down. (Okay, that's really 11, but "My top 11 reasons..." just doesn't roll off the keyboard very well. )

  19. #44
    Member Mr.ThunderMakeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Not to cheapen the Pacers big win or anything but the Heat just lost to the Sixers...

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyPacersLeft View Post
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    I love it...the whole fan base doesn't want JO anymore....lovely
    I do!
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  21. #46
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    Default Re: Postgame thread Heat vs Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    I do!
    Me Too!

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