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Thread: Kobe.....MVP?

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Kobe.....MVP?

    65, 50, and 60 more tonight. Dude is making a serious push to jump back into MVP contention.

    Furthermore, 50+ in three straight games? Holy crap!

    It'll still be tough to take it away from Dirk, but Kobe is trying his hardest.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Greatest scorer ever, better than MJ.. better than Chamberlain... you name it.... and yes, this comes from a kobe hater, but he cant make us forget that he is an idiot by entertaining us with 50-100 points every night.
    Ill run away now before someone does a "Kobe" on me.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    We're still in the old "how many games do you have to win to be considered."

    A lot of the time I think that's crap but that team has a fair amount of talent beyond Kobe and is only 4 games over .500. Putting up monster numbers will get you in the conversation but being a .500 team will get you out of it just as quick.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by #31 View Post
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    Greatest scorer ever, better than MJ.. better than Chamberlain...
    Let's don't get carried away.

    You never saw Chamberlain. When you average over 54 points a game, it kind of outshines getting over 50 for 3 straight games, now doesn't it?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Phil Jackson told Kobe that he needed to become more of an offensive threat - so maybe Phil should be coach of the year too.

    But as to the question at hand. No Kobe would not be my MVP. Lakers haven't won enough games. My vote is going to Nash or Dirk

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Let's don't get carried away.

    You never saw Chamberlain. When you average over 54 points a game, it kind of outshines getting over 50 for 3 straight games, now doesn't it?
    FYI. Actually he averaged 50.4 ppg one season but when it's over 50, it's not worth quibbling over.

    I'm no Kobe fan by any means, and I don't think he's particuallary a "team" player but damn he can fill 'er up from about anywhere. He's the best since MJ at creating his own shot.
    .

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    I'm no Kobe fan by any means, and I don't think he's particuallary a "team" player but damn he can fill 'er up from about anywhere. He's the best since MJ at creating his own shot.
    Look at the stat line from last night. The Lakers had 29 total assists versus 22 for Memphis. Kobe got his points while existing in an offense that was clearly distributing the ball. Given that his shooting % was above 50%, it's pretty obvious why Phil Jackson doesn't mind pumping those final passes that set up the score to Kobe.

    On the season he averages 5.5 assists and grabs 5.7 boards. Those just don't look like a selfish 2-guard's stat line. Kobe's only weakness is from behind the arc (ok, and maybe behind the state lines of Colorado), but I've seen him hit so many clutch shots from that range that you can almost ignore the 3pt%.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    He can score, we all know that. We all KNEW that. And his assists come from the triangle system where he essentially has the ball much more than anyone else. Earlier in the season he impressed me a bit by taking a backseat to his other teammates, and they started winning a lot.

    Now he's reverted back to old Kobe, obsessed with numbers. And they're only 4 over .500. Barely beating Memphis, Minnesota and Portland. Disappointing. I don't think Kobe will ever win the MVP because he'll never "get it".

    At least not for an entire season or the majority of one. A lot of NBA stars could do what Kobe is doing if they wanted to, but they don't because in the end it's not teamwork.

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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    I think he should have won MVP last year. He was the first player to average over 35 a game since Jordan in 1987-88.

    I just don't think Nash should get it for a third straight year. It's a slap in the face to guys like Kobe, Dirk, and Lebron if he gets it again. Those guys had just as good of years last year as Nash did, and are having great years again this year. To give Nash 3 MVPs is basically saying that he is at a superior level to everyone else in the league. But there are other guys out there who have had phenomenal seasons the past couple of years who also need to be noticed. Steve Nash isn't the only great player in the NBA.

    And I'll always think the MVP 2 years ago should have gone to Shaquille.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    FYI. Actually he averaged 50.4 ppg one season but when it's over 50, it's not worth quibbling over.

    I'm no Kobe fan by any means, and I don't think he's particuallary a "team" player but damn he can fill 'er up from about anywhere. He's the best since MJ at creating his own shot...that he can make.
    Fixed.

    AI creates shots all the time. Ball leaves hand, that's a shot. Facing the wrong way with 3 defenders on him and flipping it with one hand in the general direction of the goal, that's a shot.


    Kobe drives me nuts and I do think he's a punk, but even if you assume star treatment and take out 10 of his FTAs from last night he still would have dropped 50 on 37 FGAs, a +50% FG and a strong PPS. That's impressive.

    If a guy can keep his FG% and PPS decent (48% and 1.20 or better) then I'd just as well have him take 100 FGAs. Anyone doing better than the team average should keep on doing what they do.

    It's the nights when a guy goes 6-25 that tick me off and make me lose respect for a player. Gotta know yourself and your team, and that means knowing when you don't have it and need to get others going instead.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
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    FYI. Actually he averaged 50.4 ppg one season but when it's over 50, it's not worth quibbling over.

    I'm no Kobe fan by any means, and I don't think he's particuallary a "team" player but damn he can fill 'er up from about anywhere. He's the best since MJ at creating his own shot.
    Not only that, but he averaged over 27 boards a game twice, and over 25 in the same season he was getting 50+ points a game. That's just ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Did anyone see the ESPN graphic last night on career 60 point games?

    I think Kobe is now tied with MJ for second place, I think with 4 (maybe 5?).

    Wilt is number 1, with 32 games games over 60. It's kind of impressive when the second place person needs to increase his total by a factor of 8 to catch the leader.

    Wilt was also NOT the MVP in his 50.4 ppg, 25 rpg season; Bill Russell was.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    65, 50, and 60 more tonight. Dude is making a serious push to jump back into MVP contention.

    Furthermore, 50+ in three straight games? Holy crap!

    It'll still be tough to take it away from Dirk, but Kobe is trying his hardest.


    I watched last night's game and it was amazing. It wasn't as great as the 65 point night, but I didn't think it was possible to net 60 points all in the flow of the game. And the amount of points he was responsible for because he was being triple and double-teamed all night is actually a lot higher.




    I have no doubt in my mind that Kobe was the MVP last year, and I think he's a serious contender again this year. Not only did Kobe have one of the best statistical seasons in the history of the NBA; the Lakers ridiculously overachieved last year because Kobe and Phil got the other players to play well beyond their normal tendencies. A starting lineup including Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton should never push the Suns to the limit. Yet they were seconds away from meeting Dallas in the Conference Finals. And Kobe did it all while playing on one leg.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    I just don't think Nash should get it for a third straight year. It's a slap in the face to guys like Kobe, Dirk, and Lebron if he gets it again. Those guys had just as good of years last year as Nash did, and are having great years again this year. To give Nash 3 MVPs is basically saying that he is at a superior level to everyone else in the league. But there are other guys out there who have had phenomenal seasons the past couple of years who also need to be noticed. Steve Nash isn't the only great player in the NBA.
    Nash shot a higher percentage from the floor and from 3 point range and from the free throw line than Kobe, Dirk or LeBron. Think about that. A point guard who can't dunk shot a higher percentage than one of the best PF in the game, a guy who is 7 feet tall with a jump shot regarded as unblockable.

    Nash also obviously had the assist numbers, and most importantly the wins. Phoenix was a joke before Nash. The Cavs were a joke before LeBron. But even with him they don't scare anyone in the league. No team wants to play Phoenix. With his leadership, passing, shooting and playmaking, Nash changes the game like noone else in the NBA at the moment.

    The Lakers were at their best last year (and this year) when the other players stepped up. Not when Kobe took over. He doesn't make his teammates better, which IMO is what an MVP is all about.

    I like LeBron and he does make his teammates better but until he A.) develops a midrange game and stops chucking 3's and B.) learns how to shoot free throws, he's a player who still has a few flaws.

    Dirk is the only other viable MVP candidate at this point, in my opinion. And if he wins it, I think it will be simply because the voters don't want to give the same guy the MVP award three years in a row.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    The Lakers were at their best last year (and this year) when the other players stepped up. Not when Kobe took over. He doesn't make his teammates better, which IMO is what an MVP is all about.

    You think Kwame, Luke, Lamar, Smush, etc. stepped up on their own? None of those guys wouldve done anything last year without Kobe amping them up. Or conversely, try to imagine them winning without Kobe.

    Kobe made his teammates better than Steve Nash made his, and he had better numbers.

    Im not saying this to knock Steve Nash because its out of his control, but Steve has a TON of talent around him in Phoenix and a coach who utilizes the teams strengths. Kobe has practically nobody to play along with him.

    The Suns dont win without Nash and the Lakers cant without Kobe. Kobe has better statistics and is a much, much better defender than Steve. They both make their teammates a hell of a lot better, but what Kobe does with much less talent and a less effective system is much more impressive, imo.

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    J.O. To The T.O. Oneal07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Remember when Wilt was in the NBA, no one was good enough to guard him.. . The game now has so any great perimetre defence players to guard Kobe. . ..and they stll can't guard him. Kobe has developed more moves than MJ. Kobe is definately the best of this Era, D-wade will probably be the best of the next gen of players

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    He can score, we all know that. We all KNEW that. And his assists come from the triangle system where he essentially has the ball much more than anyone else. Earlier in the season he impressed me a bit by taking a backseat to his other teammates, and they started winning a lot.

    Now he's reverted back to old Kobe, obsessed with numbers. And they're only 4 over .500. Barely beating Memphis, Minnesota and Portland. Disappointing. I don't think Kobe will ever win the MVP because he'll never "get it".

    At least not for an entire season or the majority of one. A lot of NBA stars could do what Kobe is doing if they wanted to, but they don't because in the end it's not teamwork.
    He is not obsessed with numbers. Lamar got hurt. They had a seven game losing streak. Kobe had enough of the losing, and took things into his own hands.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    So far for Kobe

    sharing the ball=losing

    scoring 50+=winning

    Can't fault him for giving up on his teammates. They were about to knock him right out of the playoffs.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    I think people set a double standard for Kobe.

    When people look back at MJ averaging in the 30's several season, it is looked at as greatness.

    When Kobe gets his averages in the 30's, it's because he is a ball-hog and cares about his numbers.

    The guy is an amazing player. He is saving their season. The Lakers were almost finished.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    I think people set a double standard for Kobe.

    When people look back at MJ averaging in the 30's several season, it is looked at as greatness.

    When Kobe gets his averages in the 30's, it's because he is a ball-hog and cares about his numbers.

    The guy is an amazing player. He is saving their season. The Lakers were almost finished.
    Winning = the difference.

    Kobe could shoot every shot underhanded from the time line if it lead to the Lakers winning. And I agree that Kobe hasn't "regressed" nor is his scoring a sign that he doesn't "get it". The Lakers were setting all kinds of futility records this season (biggest loss in team history, most points lost by in a two game stretch, longest losing streak in Jackson history). Its pretty clear that Kobe will do what Chief Triangle tells him to do. Smudgy clearly told Kobe to win game however he had to.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    Remember when Wilt was in the NBA, no one was good enough to guard him.. .

    Wilt's 55 rebound game came against the greatest defender in the history of basketball, Bill Russell. Russ was shorter but cat-quick with long arms and the highest b'ball IQ ever seen.

    Also in a 10 team or 12 team league he faced 3 or so Hall of Fame centers on a regular basis, and something like 12 games a year against Russell when they were in the same division. That would be like having to face 8 or 9 Hall of famers at your position in today's watered-down 30 team league.

    I'm not saying he would average 50ppg in today's game, but I also would not be so quick to dismiss his accomplishments as those of someone who just happened to be too big to be guarded at that time.

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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool View Post
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    Winning = the difference.

    Kobe could shoot every shot underhanded from the time line if it lead to the Lakers winning. And I agree that Kobe hasn't "regressed" nor is his scoring a sign that he doesn't "get it". The Lakers were setting all kinds of futility records this season (biggest loss in team history, most points lost by in a two game stretch, longest losing streak in Jackson history). Its pretty clear that Kobe will do what Chief Triangle tells him to do. Smudgy clearly told Kobe to win game however he had to.
    And winning is something Jordan didn't do until he was 28 years old and in his 7th year in the NBA.

    Jordan's best season statistically was in 1987-88 when he averaged about 37 points and put up sick stats in every category, as well as winning the DPOY.

    But the Bulls didn't go very far in the playoffs.

    When someone looks at MJ scoring 37 a game in a season, I doubt they call him a "ball-hog". But Kobe gets called "ball-hog" alot when people refer back to his 35 ppg season last year or his recent scoring explosions this year, that's the point I was trying to make.

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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    You are saying that people don't call Jordan a ball hog now when he was scoring the same as Kobe is, yet they call Kobe a ball hog. I'm saying they don't call Jordan a ball hog because he won 6 championships. What aren't you getting?

    I'm aware of when Jordan won his championships. After all, it was my Pistons that stood in his path. Do you think anyone thinks of 87-88 when thinking of Jordan? I sure don't.

    Again, if Kobe leads the Lakers to a championship making 30ppg, he could average 0.2 assists a game and no one will call him a ballhog. Thus winning = difference.

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    Seize The Day carpediem024's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Kobe deserves to win an MVP in his career.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMltKsoDwe8&NR=1
    press pause on the second slow-mo replay around 0:12 mark

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    Member LG33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kobe.....MVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by carpediem024 View Post
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    Kobe deserves to win an MVP in his career.
    Yeah, once he gets a ring maybe.

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