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Thread: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

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    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    I've seen a few posters make mention of being willing to tough it out for a few bad seasons. I think what I've read is trade some current player for a pick/tank the rest of the season.....to get Law. I ask those same people if their willing to tough it out thru one more draft until 2008's projected Point Guard heavy draft? According to NBADraft.net, in 2007 they see one 1st round PG and 6 total draftees but in 2008 they see eleven 1st rounders and 22 total. Wouldn't it make more sense to wait for that draft.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is if there's only one donut.....mmm a donut.

    If there's a dozen donut's....I want the one with frosting and lightning bolt sprinkles.

    Anybody else follow that line of thinking?

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    The Future Is Bright JB's Breakout Year's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    I don't know a lot about this year's draft yet, but I have glanced at Chad Ford's breakdown on ESPN.com. What stands out is that of the top 10 players, the vast majority are forwards.

    With JO, Danny, Shawne, Ike, Mike, and Maceo, we got forwards. We have quality starters and depth in the frontcourt.

    I agree with you, Doc. Getting this year's 10th pick (given our miniscule odds of getting the 1st or 2nd in the lottery) doesn't have much of a payoff.

  3. #3

    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    The premise makes sense, but to answer your question: Nope!

    That would require another year of watching this team pretty much as-is. And that is entirely too much. The roster needs shaking up ASAP, and Law IMO has great potential. They could even keep Tins around for a season and play Acie at SG (a la Alston and Head in Houston), since Marquis Daniels doesn't look like he is capable of playing more than a 5th of a season and we are desperate for athletecism and playmaking from the #2 spot.

    Just my two cents.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    I happen to think Acie is that donut with the frosting and sprinkles.

    Great shooter, well above average defender, finds the open man, can get to the rim, and has raised his level of play every single year.

    He's unstoppable during crunch time, and it's not always about him scoring. He's just a terrific player. To be honest, he's what Mike Conley should hope to become.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Honestly, I could care less about this year's draft. If the team does poorly enough to get into this years top 10 on draft day, then so be it. I just think it will cost us a better draft pick, anyhow. I really rather not make the play-offs in the same vein just because this team doesn't look good enough to play in the play-offs.

    Even if we get our pick back...what stops mgmt from drafting best available over need at a position. We've seen it happen here time after time where we feel like we need this position, then they draft a guy that plays that position. I wouldn't be suprised to see mgmt. draft another forward just because a fwd was higher on their draft board. I know when it happens, I will tune in here to watch everyone lose their collective minds, just like last year when we passed on Marcus Williams.
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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Also, IMO, getting into this years draft gives us all of next season to trade for a pick in the next draft. So it isn't necessarily this year OR next. It could be both.

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    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I happen to think Acie is that donut with the frosting and sprinkles.
    That was kind of my point. When there's only one to look at...there's not much of a selection. Look at it like hot chicks...if there's one hot chick, you'd probably say the same thing. If there were ten hot chicks, you'd start to nitpick. You know what I'm saying. Besides, I'm with Gnome on this one. History shows they'll select the best player regardless of position.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    if you have a written in blood contract with stern to get acie law...maybe.

    but past that, not a ton of PGs that i think are franchise this year(as i actually figure conley and others will stick it out in college).

    so i lean towards next year. and to be brutally honest, why get a good pg this year and put them in a situation with tinsley, a disappointed JO, a tenously positioned RC and a pissed fan base? Instead, let's finish the housecleaning and prime this team for 08.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    The fan base is getting shaky and another entire year just list this past few weeks would leave nobody in the gym but Uncle Buck and Peck.

    Tanking 2 months is one thing, but tanking 1 year and 2 months is another.

    You might just be tanking for the 2008-2009 Las Vegas Pacers.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    And we will still have to wait to see if Law becomes a good NBA PG! Most 1st rounders don't....

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Law is the best non-NBA PG around at this moment. There are others with more potential, but none are playing at his level. Many people had DJ Augustin rated above of Law, but anybody who watched the USC game could tell that he's not ready for the NBA.

    I'm not in favor of tanking to get Law, but I would be in favor of trading into the mid-first round to get him. I would probably give up Danny or Shawne to do so, and I think both those guys are good players.

    The freshman PG's are most likely going to stay in school, and if they come out, they won't be ready to play in the NBA next year. Conley and Lawson are the best of the bunch. The thing about next year's draft is that it will have OJ Mayo (a PG who will be next year's Durant).

    All in all, Goldfoot's right. Next Year's draft class is (probably) rich in PG's, while this year's is lacking. I guess my point would be that if we're going to get rid of Tinsley and bring in a youngster/rookie to run the team, I want Law. If we're going to have Tins or another veteran start, we can wait a year and get the PG of the future in the middle of next year's draft. Someone good will be there, maybe even Conley.
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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    That was kind of my point. When there's only one to look at...there's not much of a selection. Look at it like hot chicks...if there's one hot chick, you'd probably say the same thing. If there were ten hot chicks, you'd start to nitpick. You know what I'm saying. Besides, I'm with Gnome on this one. History shows they'll select the best player regardless of position.
    There's really no guaruntee about next year as too where the Ps would draft, who would be available, or any other variables.

    He's a great player, and would be a huge lift for this team. Boston thought they could out smart everyone and hold out for Tim Duncan, and look how that turned out.

    When/if you have the chance for a big upgrade in a position that you're in need of fixing you pull the trigger. There's no guaruntee about next year.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I've seen a few posters make mention of being willing to tough it out for a few bad seasons. I think what I've read is trade some current player for a pick/tank the rest of the season.....to get Law. I ask those same people if their willing to tough it out thru one more draft until 2008's projected Point Guard heavy draft? According to NBADraft.net, in 2007 they see one 1st round PG and 6 total draftees but in 2008 they see eleven 1st rounders and 22 total. Wouldn't it make more sense to wait for that draft.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is if there's only one donut.....mmm a donut.

    If there's a dozen donut's....I want the one with frosting and lightning bolt sprinkles.

    Anybody else follow that line of thinking?
    I agree with the analogy, but looking into next year, there are a ton of talented points, but why stick it out when the prototype point we want is right here?

    Next year, asuming Connely, Augustine, et al come out, I'm not sure they'd do it for us. We need a devesive point who can step up in the clutch(really, anybody who can step up in crunch time would be nice). Augustine's collapse against USC was pretty bad. I'm not going to lay it all on him (Rick Barnes really crapped the bed there), but DJ fell apart completely in the last few minutes. And finally, Law's a leader. AS much as I love Danny and JO on this team, neither one are leaders.

    I'd be willing to trade up into the draft (I'm totally against tanking) to get a drfat pick. Heck, in the event Law gets taken before he gets to us, which is highly unlikely, Hasheem Thabeet may still be available.....

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    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    I'm not suggesting tanking a season. I was suggesting waiting to jump ship until there's a better selection of replacement point guards. In all likelihood, if the Pacers enter next season with the same team they be better suited to compete. They won't be a bunch of guys thrown into the fire and asked to pretend like they've gelled into a team. A single round in the playoffs, the amount of regular season they've played and the offseason/preseason should at least give them some time to become a team. It would also give the coaching staff time to come up with a better approach to utilizing some of the newer guys talents and a new cast of wannabe NBA players will surely occupy the end of the bench. The Pacers would likely end up with another middle of the 1st round pick in 2008 and then they could select with that pick or maybe trade for a better shot at one of those young studs like Mayo or Rose or whoever else surfaces by that time.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    To be fair, I believe that what we've been doing for 3 seasons already qualifies as "toughing it out". I do expect things to get tougher for at least one and perhaps several seasons. I give it 5 years before Pacer Pride returns to form.

    I don't know why Acie Law is suddenly considered a godsend. He may be the best PG in the draft, but most mocks don't have him going in the top 10.
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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Based off of what I've read and heard about him, I would love to get Acie Law, but I'm afraid Gnome is correct. Most likely thing to happen is we "waste" the pick on another forward.

    The only bright spot about that is it allows you to perhaps trade one of your other F's for a G, but I'd rather just take Acie.

    I try not to get worked up about it either way, though. I think we're gonna end up in the playoffs (2004 Celtics II, baby!) or with the 11-14th pick anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Honestly, I could care less about this year's draft. If the team does poorly enough to get into this years top 10 on draft day, then so be it. I just think it will cost us a better draft pick, anyhow. I really rather not make the play-offs in the same vein just because this team doesn't look good enough to play in the play-offs.

    Even if we get our pick back...what stops mgmt from drafting best available over need at a position. We've seen it happen here time after time where we feel like we need this position, then they draft a guy that plays that position. I wouldn't be suprised to see mgmt. draft another forward just because a fwd was higher on their draft board. I know when it happens, I will tune in here to watch everyone lose their collective minds, just like last year when we passed on Marcus Williams.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    The reason I like taking Law in this draft is that there are also a lot of very good two guards in next years draft that we could be able to get our hands on. (Cough, Eric Gordon, Cough).

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  18. #18
    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Acie Law is a stud. But, as has been stated, with him being the best of the bunch in the point guard crop. If we could get him, it would be a great day for our backcourt.

  19. #19

    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    problem with all this drooling over law is, the pacers need a lot more than a little pg help to become a legit team again...

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I've seen a few posters make mention of being willing to tough it out for a few bad seasons. I think what I've read is trade some current player for a pick/tank the rest of the season.....to get Law. I ask those same people if their willing to tough it out thru one more draft until 2008's projected Point Guard heavy draft? According to NBADraft.net, in 2007 they see one 1st round PG and 6 total draftees but in 2008 they see eleven 1st rounders and 22 total. Wouldn't it make more sense to wait for that draft.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is if there's only one donut.....mmm a donut.

    If there's a dozen donut's....I want the one with frosting and lightning bolt sprinkles.

    Anybody else follow that line of thinking?
    You lost me after your donut analogy......

    That's the problem with this draft......its top heavy in Frontcourt players.....and have a few Guards to really pick from. But I wouldn't be surprised if TPTB tries to make some sort of run at Acie Law ( probably offering up Shawne or Granger ) to see if we can land us the draft pick for Acie.

    And before you ask....yes....I think that TPTB are desperate enough to at least try ( during this offseason ) to get a young PG that they will try to clear up the clutter of SFs that we have. It will either be Granger or Shawne....assuming that JONeal isn't moved....cuz no one but Bird wants Dunleavy. But if the opposing GM wants more.....TPTB will just try their luck in the FA market or do some other trade for some Vet that is on the market and then wait til the 2008 draft to get a guard.
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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    problem with all this drooling over law is, the pacers need a lot more than a little pg help to become a legit team again...
    Law is a step in the right direction. With all the complaints over leadership from the PG position Law would immediately eleviate that problem as well as add a consistent perimeter shooter to the PG spot.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    The thing about next year's draft is that it will have OJ Mayo (a PG who will be next year's Durant).
    My own opinion is that Mayo is the next big headcase. He already has a good start on that title, having been booted from his original High School team in Cinci. during their tournament, and this last week (doing his hot-dogging - show-off best) throwing the ball into the stands during a 41 point win.

    No Thanks on that guy!

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    My own opinion is that Mayo is the next big headcase. He already has a good start on that title, having been booted from his original High School team in Cinci. during their tournament, and this last week (doing his hot-dogging - show-off best) throwing the ball into the stands during a 41 point win.

    No Thanks on that guy!
    I agree. Mayo isn't even much of PG. He is more two guard than point. His questionable decision making off the court is also a turn off. Plus his decision to go to USC raises some serious questions for me. Especially with all the allegations Bush has dealt with since leaving there.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    My own opinion is that Mayo is the next big headcase. He already has a good start on that title, having been booted from his original High School team in Cinci. during their tournament, and this last week (doing his hot-dogging - show-off best) throwing the ball into the stands during a 41 point win.

    No Thanks on that guy!
    Ditto! I want nothing to do with this jerk.

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    Default Re: ? for those willing tough it out to get Law

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMac View Post
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    And we will still have to wait to see if Law becomes a good NBA PG! Most 1st rounders don't....

    HUH????????

    Chris Paul.
    Deron Williams.
    Come to mind right off the bat.

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