Tweet
Re: Kobe.....MVP?
Kobe 50 again tonight...
...so thats 65, 50, 60, 50.
and the Lakers win.
Kobe 50 again tonight...
...so thats 65, 50, 60, 50.
and the Lakers win.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMltKsoDwe8&NR=1
press pause on the second slow-mo replay around 0:12 mark
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
50+ in four straight games is damn impressive.Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
MVP doesn't go to the best player in the league, but Kobe is the best player in the league.
I don't care who they are playing, how meaningful those points are, or however you try to explain it away--50+ points 4 games in row is unbelieveable."They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.
"'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
It's annoying when people go, he scored 81 on the sucky Raptors...
It doesn't matter, come on he scored Eighty-One.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMltKsoDwe8&NR=1
press pause on the second slow-mo replay around 0:12 mark
Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
The MVP used to be and should be the award given to the best player in the league. Does anyone really doubt that Kobe is the best player in the NBA? Shaq should have gotten more than one, and I don't think Kobe should be denied because his team stinks without him. Dallas and Phoenix would both make the playoffs without their MVPs. Lakers would have the worst record in the league. Otherwise they should wait to give the MVP until after the finals when the championship is crowned. (And yes, Kobe should have won last year, he dominated Nash and a much better Suns team in some major games.) ((Kobe is the most dominant player since Jordan, Jordan's teams were much better when they won the championships.)) (((It's not MVTP: Most Valuable Team Player.)))Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
The MVP doesn't necessarily go to the best player, although a lot of times it works out that way.
If Kobe wasn't playing for the Lakers, I think they would still be hovering around .500 ball. He still doesn't fully comprehend how to make his teammates better on a nightly basis.
Last night's game is a prime example of it being all about Kobe. Late in the third quarter LA goes up by 18 points. However, Kobe plays 46:52!!!! Instead of giving him a rest, he remains in and the Hornets make a comeback. It was simply a canard for Kobe to play a full game and for Phil to accommodate it.
As far as his three rings...never would've happened without Shaq. As far as Shaq winning three without Kobe...don't believe it would have happened. He would have only won two..Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
It was never ever given simply to the best player. Wilt averaged 50 and 25 and didn't win it. Oscar didn't win it in his triple double season.Originally posted by Millerartest View Post
It has never been defined but it is certainly understood by the voters that the league MVP is:
1) an elite player
2) on one of the very best teams
3) who leads his team to an extremely successful regular season, placing them in a position to contend for an NBA title
I have no problems with this accepted definitionThe poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
I really wish I could enjoy the way Kobe's been playing, but he's such an egotistical *** (amongst other things) that I just can't find myself being happy for him.Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
Exactly, thats the way i feel to... he just makes it extremly difficult to like him if you are person who care about teamplay, personality, behaviour, unselfishness & the will to make his teammates better.Originally posted by Sh4d3 View Post
For me, people who are Kobe Fans are those who dont care about these things.... or they maybe do, but they are brainwashed, they are geting brainwashed because Kobe is that good scorer and then they say "!1230+)"#"# score freakin !!! 81 pts!! dude!!! and 50 pts 4 straight timezzz! Thats teh 1337!! Respectzzz!"
Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
A MVP to me is what Kobe has done he was using his teammates pretty much up until the losing streak started and then said you know what this team is struggling and said get on my back theres no way in hell we wont make the playoffs. Damn i wish we had that. And honestly Kobe and shaq needed each other for those 3 rings.Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
Agreed. Though I am willing to buy into arguments that discuss just how much worse off a team would be without a player, even in the case of blah teams. Kobe gets considered by this factor.Originally posted by pacertom View Post
And I'm one of those that says "yeah, but look at the competition". This isn't freaking golf. What, if a RB goes for 150 yards on the Colts defense no one says "sure, but its the Colts run D"? Of course they do.
Kobe was great in these four games and extremely efficient for a volume scorer. It is great no matter what, but it still has to be taken with a grain of salt. Have you forgotten that Kobe got lit up by Arenas AND Redd earlier in the year?
I'm a big Yanks fan, but I totally buy into the anti-ARod version of his own stat stuffing, where people notice how un-timely a lot of his stats are, vs bad pitching or in games where it doesn't matter.
MVP implies getting your team through the TOUGH GAMES more than stat loading in easier matchups. So as good as this run has been, Kobe won't get MVP unless he pairs it with some 25-30 point efficient nights vs playoff race competition, leading his team to some critical playoff seed affecting wins.
This isn't just an anti-Kobe thing, as I said ARod catches it too, and in fact the corollary of this view is what helped raise Reggie Miller's status as a HOF caliber player.
And is it really so much to ask him to bring it vs Houston or PHX, or even the 2 games vs Denver? If he's the MVP he will and the Lakers will get some big wins in at least 2-3 of those games because of him.
The argument "how can you not give him the MVP just because he had some bad games vs good teams? look what he did vs the crap teams" isn't very strong.
BTW - regarding the Lakers losing and winning streaks, again you look at the schedule. I was talking about this back in NOV when they had played something like 8 of 9 at Staples (including a road game vs the Clips). Was the streak about Kobe's role or about playing easier teams finally? A road back to back after an OT game and going to the East coast, a trip to PHX, a visit from DAL...and Kobe led the Lakers in scoring in 6 of those 7 straight losses by the way.
Vs OKC he took 29 shots for 50 points, but in the loss to Minny he took 30 for 40, not exactly different strategy there. He also threw up 11-28 vs PHX and 12-27 vs PHI. So let's get off the "he was asked to shoot more and that turned it around". He shot just as much in several of those losses, he just MISSED A LOT. That's your MVP, a guy that goes 11-28 vs a prime contender or even 12-27 vs a non-playoff team from the East???
Let me guess, you leave those games off the MVP application, right?
Cripes, the Lakers won IN SPITE of his dreadful shooting vs Golden St and Utah less than a month ago. That also doesn't say MVP.
So his record isn't just obviously all great and MVP caliber. If it weren't for some of those games I mentioned he would be the obvious MVP. Of couse the Lakers would have won a few more of those games too. It goes hand in hand.
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
MVP's don't come from mediocre teams. If Kobe continues this and the Lakers win 12 out of their last 13 games, then maybe Kobe would have an outside shot at it.Originally posted by ThA HoyA View Post.Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
Kobe is the biggest offensive threat of our generation. It's hard to compare him to Chamberlin because Wilt was like a College player playing with 7th graders, compared in size and talent. This is the new age, and kobe is even better then M.J. M.J went off but I have never seen M.J be tripled team fake left, then right and then shoot a fade away on the right three point line and hit nothing but bottom. Kobe Is proving a point, he is showing he can score at any give time. Not only is kobe the best of our generation he is by far the most underrated player superstar EVER. I watch him almost every game and Sportscenter doesn't even cover Half of what he does in games. Unless he scores 50 or 60 he doesn't get any credit. The utah game at the beginning of the season, I still think about because it was such an impressive offensive display. He hit every single shot in the third quarter and we aren;t talking easy shots. Kobe should be MVP no doubt...Comment
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Re: Kobe.....MVP?
Just a reminder
Nash is at 11.6 assists with a 47% 3pt average, overall FG% of 53.6% for 19 a night. He's 88% from the FT to boot and has 3.5 rebounds.
Dirk is at 9.5 rebounds with a 42% 3pt average, overall FG% of 50%, 90% from the FT line
and even has 3.5 assists going per night.
Kobe shoots and scores the most, but his FG% is only at 46.7% and his 3pt number is a rather bland 36%. He is shooting FTs at an 87% rate himself which is strong. His 5.8 rebounds and 5.3 assists are great numbers, but considering that Dirk and Nash are only a couple lower on their weaker categories and 4-6 higher on their strong ones, it seems to indicate that they offer more in total. He gets credit for all-around game of course.
Kobe is damn impressive. It just happens that like Wilt found with Russell, so is his competition.
The Lakers are 34-30 with Kobe (.531)
They are 3-2 without him (.600)
The Suns are 50-12 with Nash (.806)
They are 2-4 without him (.333)
The Mavs are 56-11 with Dirk
They are 1-0 without him...not really any kind of sample at all. That win was at Denver with AI but without Melo. Dirk only missed 1 game last year too. Maybe not missing games should count toward his voting actually.
In 14 of the last 16 games Nash has gone EITHER for 10+ assists or scored 20+ points on 80%+ FG shooting. Sometimes both. In one of those 2 he didn't he was 4-7 with 8 assists in a win over HOU and in the other he was 9-14 with 9 assists in a loss at Philly (both 50%+ nights and 8+ assists, these are his BAD games). That's just how insanely off the hook Nash's game is right now, right in the heat of the playoff race.
In that same span Kobe has had ONE game of 10+ assists, ONE game of 10+ rebounds, and SIX games where he shot 19+ FGAs at a 41% rate or worse (2 were below 34% even). That's his bad games, 6-19 (32%) with 9 rebounds and 3 assist in a home loss vs Dallas just 2 weeks ago.
Nash is paid to pass the ball and add in 15-20 points a night. He does this EVERY night. Kobe is paid to fill it up. Most nights he does this, but there are plenty of nights he fails pretty badly at it.
Would Kobe be MVP if Nash/Dirk weren't around, certainly. But they are around and they are putting up nights just as sick. So sick people are bored with it. Nash is putting up MAGIC JOHNSON caliber assists, but with much better shooting/scoring to go with it. And I'm pretty sure Magic's Lakers had more talent than the current Suns do.
While we are at it, Dirk's numbers are rather similar to Bird's (reb, 3p% fg%, a couple lower on assist though), another guy with plenty of talent around him.
You put Bird, Magic and Jordan in their primes in the same season together you are going to have a couple of great seasons that don't result in an MVP award. Only one can win, that's the tough break on it (unless there is a tie in the votes I suppose).Comment
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