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Thread: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

  1. #26

    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    If getting a high draft pick is the goal isn't it better not to get a draft pick and be even worse (or better depending on the definition) next year so that we can get an even better pick in 08?

    As far as playing the young guys there are only two, Ike and Danny, and Danny is already starting. I'm not sure who on this roster there is to develop.
    Who would willingly want to subject themselves to another year of lottery status? We've seen the effect of the point guards that have come out of college lately. The effect is HUGE. If the Pacers get Law/Conley this year I have no reason or statistical evidence to believe that they'll be worse next year.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    I don't like what the word "tank" means either, but at this point I'm not sure this group of players and coaches can win another game, not to say that they would be purposely trying to lose, I just think they aren't good enough to win another game. So, to answer your question I would say get the pick, but get it trying to win, not trying to "tank" a.k.a. lose on purpose.

    Let JO rest for as long as he needs. The sad thing though is that it could be the last time we see him playing for the Pacers. Let the young guys get some mins. and someone light a firer under Granger, the kid is just out of gas, looks like he hit the 2nd year wall a month or so ago. Watching him in that Houston game he just looked lost and confused. Also my hope is that RC will start IKE, unless the Pacers plans are to use him in a trade, he should be get a lot more time on the floor, this kid can play, given consistent time.

    In closing I would like to just echo what another poster said in that I just want the season to be over, this is just the saddest Pacers season since "The Brawl". It will be hard watching the Playoffs without the Pacers in them, but at this point I don't want them there. Oh and what do we do with Murphleavys' massive contracts, looking at the trade now I would rather have kept Jack and Al, but I guess everything happens for a reason.

    P.S. FIRE RC ASAP!!!

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by maragin View Post
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    Play hard. Every night. Let the rest sort itself out.
    That is damn near signature worthy.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    I would prefer to make the playoffs, as long as we don't play Detroit (or, to a lesser extent, Washington) in the first round.

    Otherwise, I'm okay with "tanking," which at this point basically means just playing Pacers basketball. It feels pretty much routine at this point.

    Either way, we need to make some MAJOR changes in the offseason, from the backcourt to the bench.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    There is only 3 outcomes for the Pacers once the 2006-2007 season is over.

    A ) We will either end up with the 9th/10th worst record in the league ( and therefore likely keep the pick )
    B ) We will likely watching an early exit in the 1st round of the Playoffs ( yes, I seriously believe that we have a very slim chance of winning 2 games...much less winning a 7-game series...against the Pistons, Cavs or Wizards )
    C ) We end up with the 11th to 14th worst record in the league while missing the Playoffs and ( likely ) losing out on the 2007 draft pick.

    I do understand the importance of "not giving up" or "giving our best...win or lose", but ( because I'm a pessimist ), I simply look at certain realities that we face right now with this team and its laundry list of weaknesses ( that can easily be exploited in a 7-game series ) and really wonder what the point of even trying is.

    Maybe because I have been so jaded over this and the last couple of seasons, I have simply moved on to the offseason and care more about what we need to do to fix this team rather then what we do now. I know that getting a draft pick won't guarantee that we can turn this ship around in the next season ( much less pan out in the long term ), but ( assuming that we don't pick up another SF, PF or Center...which I could still see Bird/Walsh doing ) I would much rather take a risk of getting a player that may ( or may not ) help this team in the immediate furture rather then watch ( what I think ) will be a short-lived Playoff run and be in a worse position ( in the offseason ) to try to fix this mess of a team that TPTB cobbled together.

    In short, I would much rather sacrifice the "short term" ( not making the Playoffs ) then the "immediate future" ( trying to keep the pick and giving TPTB another asset to work with to try to fix things ).

    But I guess if "tanking" is not an option and TPTB really wants to make a push for the Playoffs, then maybe the best option ( like many of you suggest ) is to play JONeal, but limit his minutes so that we can (A) minimize the risk of further injury to him while (B) we give more minutes to Ike and Shawne so that we can see what they have to offer while developing him. Maybe the best way of losing games ( while not purposely losing games ) is to go out and try our hardest while giving the most # of minutes to Ike and Shawne for the rest of the season so that we can see what they have to offer. This way, we are in a better position to see what changes we have to make in theh offseason given the players that we have.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh4d3 View Post
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    I would prefer to make the playoffs, as long as we don't play Detroit (or, to a lesser extent, Washington) in the first round.

    Otherwise, I'm okay with "tanking," which at this point basically means just playing Pacers basketball. It feels pretty much routine at this point.

    Either way, we need to make some MAJOR changes in the offseason, from the backcourt to the bench.
    To tell you the truth......I wouldn't want to play the Cavs either.

    The NBA wants Lebron to make it deep into the Playoffs....if you think that the Refs/Stern/NBA hates the Pacers with bad calls during the regular season.....how many phantom calls do you think that he will get against the Pacers ( much less any other team he faces )?

    If we did end up meeting the Cavs in the Playoffs....I wouldn't be surprised if we see at least 1 game that the Refs hand to Lebron/Cavs.

    To me....its a lose-lose situation...regardless of who we face.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy View Post
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    I'm confident that somehow we'll still end up with a pick (via trade) even if we make the playoffs. So I'm voting for the playoffs. But at the same time, I'm ready for this season to be over with.
    I'm for tanking it. We need talent BADLY and if we want to get into this years draft we either have to suck badly enough for a short period OR we will have to give up talent that we have now for what's probably a much lower pick compared to what we would get if we would tank it.

    We need this talent infusion now and trading is doing what that word means ... giving talent to get talent. We need this pick badly to improve our options and flexibility this summer to change the roster, because our negotiating position will be a lot better if we have it compared to the situation that we don't.

    Regards,

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    I'm for tanking it. We need talent BADLY and if we want to get into this years draft we either have to suck badly enough for a short period OR we will have to give up talent that we have now for what's probably a much lower pick compared to what we would get if we would tank it.

    We need this talent infusion now and trading is doing what that word means ... giving talent to get talent. We need this pick badly to also improve our options and flexibility this summer to change the roster, because our negotiating position will be a lot better if we have it compared to the situation that we don't.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    I'm not 100% convinced that any draft pick will turn this team around....at least not in the next season ( unless we luck out and whatever Guard we draft can hit the ground running )....but I agree with you on your comments about giving TPTB the most options and flexibility to make the REQUIRED changes that we know we must make in the offseason.

    I'm with you.......I'm only looking at the offseason and what we can do to try to fix this team.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    This question and thread is pretty irrelevant because in order to TANK, a team has to be good enough to win if they tried. That is not the case with the current Pacer team.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I'm not 100% convinced that any draft pick will turn this team around....at least not in the next season ( unless we luck out and whatever Guard we draft can hit the ground running )....but I agree with you on your comments about giving TPTB the most options and flexibility to make the REQUIRED changes that we know we must make in the offseason.

    I'm with you.......I'm only looking at the offseason and what we can do to try to fix this team.
    Aggreed on that one draft pick won't normally turn the team around it could certainly help the overal level of the team though, I think we can aggree on that .

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  11. #36

    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    This is all very theoretical.. I think wer'e already tanking.
    Without purpose..

  12. #37
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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seed View Post
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    This is all very theoretical.. I think wer'e already tanking.
    Without purpose..
    Do you mean that we are tanking...but not on purpose?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Tank.

  14. #39

    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Do you mean that we are tanking...but not on purpose?
    Yup . No need to dive into the moral issues.

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    Default I hope to see the Pacers lose the rest of their games

    Seriously what is the point at making the playoffs as probably an 8th seed, and giving the pistons fans more ammo to taunt of with.

    Lose out, and in this draft you really have 2 players that can initiate change within a franchise. So maybe just maybe we will get lucky and can get Oden or Durant.

    Because lets face it, if we don't do killer in the draft this year. We are only going to repeat this next year, then the year after, then the year after. We need a young guy to make granger the sidekick of.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: I hope to see the Pacers lose the rest of their games

    Oh please...how about you take that negativity and bounce?
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

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    Default Re: I hope to see the Pacers lose the rest of their games

    Wow how nice. So polite, and I mean what a great argument. Should I be surprised that the rude people are the same ones that can't make a coherent argument.

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    Default Re: I hope to see the Pacers lose the rest of their games

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyPacersLeft View Post
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    Oh please...how about you take that negativity and bounce?
    How about realism?
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    Default Re: I hope to see the Pacers lose the rest of their games

    Pacers are going to go on a uncharacteristic winning streak starting tonigh. I have been praying .lol (if that could help)
    [SIGPIC]Dun Dun shooting form![/SIGPIC]

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    Default Re: I hope to see the Pacers lose the rest of their games

    Quote Originally Posted by IMissReggie View Post
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    Wow how nice. So polite, and I mean what a great argument. Should I be surprised that the rude people are the same ones that can't make a coherent argument.
    You write that title on a Pacers forum and don't expect to get flamed?

    Mourning's mention of being realistic should start here.
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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Getting into the playoffs accomplishes very little.

    Playoff experience in this case means diddly poo. We're not talking about a lengthy playoff run. We're talking about getting beat in 4 straight games, all by double figures. How is this a good thing? Look at the Boston Celtics we demolished a few seasons back, that playoff experience sure helped their youngsters didn't it?

    And sure, one top-10 pick isn't gonna turn us around overnight, but it's a hell of a start provided the right player is selected. We're gonna continue to suck until talent is added ti the backcourt, might as well get that talent a.s.a.p. instead of going through another season like this one.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    One top 10 pick might turn us around in a few years if that pick happens to be Oden, although by no means does that mean he would do what us Duncan did for the spurs. After all the Spurs were already a very good team, whose front office had a plan.

    But I would much rather get a guy that could turn our franchise around with the proper pieces than get another williams and have 4 maybe 5 playoff games.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by IMissReggie View Post
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    One top 10 pick might turn us around in a few years if that pick happens to be Oden, although by no means does that mean he would do what us Duncan did for the spurs. After all the Spurs were already a very good team, whose front office had a plan.

    But I would much rather get a guy that could turn our franchise around with the proper pieces than get another williams and have 4 maybe 5 playoff games.
    Its unlikely that any pick that we get would turn this franchise around immediately ( unless we somehow got Zeke to choose the player for us ).

    The main reason why I would prefer to go for the "pick" instead of the Playoffs are for the very same reasons why you suggest...but more importantly that any pick is an offseason asset that TPTB can use to fix this team. This is especially important since I believe that our options to improve this team in the offseason is very limited. No matter what happens....we know that we are going to have a huge puzzle to put together this offseason...and the more pieces that we have...the better.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: For the Record, Tank or Playoffs?

    How about a Playoffs Tank?



    No Pistons fan gets out of Conseco alive...

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    Default Re: I hope to see the Pacers lose the rest of their games

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    How about realism?
    How about the Colts never waste time giving the Patriots more ammo in the playoffs ever again....oh wait.

    Weren't the Colts tanking at the end of the season too? Weren't they headed right into a road game disaster vs Baltimore?


    I understand the series thing vs 1 game and that the Colts had been winning. However their run defense was HORRIBLE ALL YEAR, not just at the end.

    Sports is about the unexpected and all I know is that you've got to be in to win. You are giving Atlanta a pick sooner or later, what makes you so sure that next year will be better and that the pick then will be worth less than this one? Or what about a few years down the road when it's unprotected? Do you really want to draft Tisdale now and give up Smits in 2 years?

    There's more at risk here than just that this pick won't be great. Giving up a shot at the playoffs isn't free. This idea that losing is obviously the smarter thing to do makes zero sense.



    The T'Wolves just drafted Foye to go with KG. Foye's doing fine. KG is his typical all-NBA self. So why didn't that draft pick "fix" everything?

    Philly had AI, drafted 9th and got Iggy. And they ended up where exactly?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sh4d3 View Post
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    How about a Playoffs Tank?



    No Pistons fan gets out of Conseco alive...
    Atta boy Shade! I'll take a 1st round upset and then 4 game sweep (Pacers loss) in the next round over a draft pick if it means beating the Pistons. You play to win the game, and add to that you draft players to win the game. Win the game is the key. And pride in yourself and your team is a key part of winning. Tanking runs totally counter to that attitude. It's a loser attitude.

    How is this a good thing? Look at the Boston Celtics we demolished a few seasons back, that playoff experience sure helped their youngsters didn't it?
    The Celtics have picked Delonte West, Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Rondo and Telfair (traded Foye draft slot to get him so basically the same as drafting him) in the first round just in the last 3 years. Tell me how all those draft picks are helping the team? Playoff experience or not, having lots of picks, even a high pick (used eventually to get Foye by POR, then traded to MIN in Roy deal) hasn't gotten them anywhere but worse than ever. Not a little better, much worse instead.

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