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Thread: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

  1. #26
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

    I agree with Pacer Tom and RWB. The whole thing's -ed up. I don't think players or coaches can be defended at this point. Everyone needs to be held responsible. And let's not stop there. Gotta point the finger at management, too.

    I'm know it won't happen, but my ideal scenario for next season would be a team without RC, JO, JT, Jeff, DH, Bird, and Walsh. We need to clean house. This core is now rotten or at least it's had its opportunity and has done nothing but fail.

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    Default Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

    Talent, 110%.

    We've got 1 great starter (O'Neal), 2 average starters (Granger and Murphy) and 2 below average starters (Dunleavy and Tinsley). Add it all together and you've got a below average team.

  3. #28
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawne View Post
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    Talent, 110%.

    We've got 1 great starter (O'Neal), 2 average starters (Granger and Murphy) and 2 below average starters (Dunleavy and Tinsley). Add it all together and you've got a below average team.
    I agree, but I'd put Foster in average starter status and Murph in below average. And Quis of course is an average starter I think, when/if he plays.

    Foster rebounds and plays defense every night. Murph's offense is hit and miss. Each is about equally ineffective on the opposite end (Jeff on OFF, Troy on DEF).


    I see people wanting Foster gone but keeping DunDun? Are you kidding? This team needs changes and perhaps they won't be able to do things they want to do because of salary, but why would someone want to move JO and Foster but keep the horrible defense of Dun on the team to go with his Jack-esque shooting streaks?

    I like the kid's attitude and hustle and I root for him to put it together every night, and honestly this team typically desperately needs him to have his shot going most nights, but I don't see him as part of the solution. He, Troy and Ike joined the team and the team started playing worse, primarily on defense.

    It wasn't a coincidence. GS was ranked very poorly in defense before the trade, Troy and Dun were big minutes guys during that stretch, so you have to assume that some of that came with them. The Pacers are giving up something like 100 ppg since the trade.


    But what the team needs is to dump it's 2 best defensive players (outside of Greene that is) and keep a guy like Dun? To me that continues heading in the wrong direction. I'd rather keep the guys that were here when the team won 61 and move the guys that have never been on a winning team.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I agree, but I'd put Foster in average starter status and Murph in below average. And Quis of course is an average starter I think, when/if he plays.

    Foster rebounds and plays defense every night. Murph's offense is hit and miss. Each is about equally ineffective on the opposite end (Jeff on OFF, Troy on DEF).


    I see people wanting Foster gone but keeping DunDun? Are you kidding? This team needs changes and perhaps they won't be able to do things they want to do because of salary, but why would someone want to move JO and Foster but keep the horrible defense of Dun on the team to go with his Jack-esque shooting streaks?

    I like the kid's attitude and hustle and I root for him to put it together every night, and honestly this team typically desperately needs him to have his shot going most nights, but I don't see him as part of the solution. He, Troy and Ike joined the team and the team started playing worse, primarily on defense.

    It wasn't a coincidence. GS was ranked very poorly in defense before the trade, Troy and Dun were big minutes guys during that stretch, so you have to assume that some of that came with them. The Pacers are giving up something like 100 ppg since the trade.


    But what the team needs is to dump it's 2 best defensive players (outside of Greene that is) and keep a guy like Dun? To me that continues heading in the wrong direction. I'd rather keep the guys that were here when the team won 61 and move the guys that have never been on a winning team.
    Yes I am one of the people who like Dun because he is always trying to get into position to make a play or receive a pass, rebound, or shoot. I have also appreciated Foster but this year he seems a bit slower and still has no shot. The same reason you like Foster is why I like Dun because he hustles. Would I rather see someone who can shoot play SG? Of course but with a minimum number of real players on this team I would keep Dun. Truthfully I do not know who to keep other than JO. Everyone else is a question mark but the guys I would truly get rid of are JT and Murphy whose games can go from great to terrible. Forget the 61 games. They aren't coming back with this team or this coach. Perhaps when Venus and Mars are aligned as they were in 2004 will RC be that successful.

  5. #30
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSMASH View Post
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    Jamal Tinsley, well if you didnít see the San Antonio game then you donít know how bad its got for Jamal.
    The San Antonio game showed that Jamaal just can't be coached. How many times does Chuck have to tell him that the most efficient way to get a ball into the stands is by punting?
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  6. #31
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Yes I am one of the people who like Dun because he is always trying to get into position to make a play or receive a pass, rebound, or shoot. I have also appreciated Foster but this year he seems a bit slower and still has no shot. The same reason you like Foster is why I like Dun because he hustles. Would I rather see someone who can shoot play SG? Of course but with a minimum number of real players on this team I would keep Dun. Truthfully I do not know who to keep other than JO. Everyone else is a question mark but the guys I would truly get rid of are JT and Murphy whose games can go from great to terrible. Forget the 61 games. They aren't coming back with this team or this coach. Perhaps when Venus and Mars are aligned as they were in 2004 will RC be that successful.
    I can appreciate that. The "kid" I was referring to was Dunleavy, not Foster, so I also enjoy what he brings in that regard. I wish he could make good on it more often, and I get really ticked with people that see him as a huge improvement over Jackson, which he honestly isn't. But in general I have no problem with him getting some PT and being a Pacer.

    I just hate the whole "now they are likeable so it's okay" thing while the stands remain unfilled as long as the losing continues.

    Some parts don't fit, at least as the team stands right now. They need that guy off the dribble that Quis is, they need Danny or Dun going for 20 every night (one or the other every night) with less than 18 FGAs to do so. And they need defensive improvement at the 1, 2 and 3.

    If Dun can help fill those needs then things aren't so bad, but if they need to make moves then the contracts he and Murph brought with them only make the situation tougher.



    Rat - I thought of the Chuck punt too. The day after that (IIRC) my girlfriend and I went down to Edinburgh to see Mike Williams. We met him in Indy at a signing and he was very nice, so we wanted a chance to say hi again and show support for a very likeable player.

    He remembered us, and then proceeded to ask me "what did that punt look like on TV?"

    Back then it really was us vs the world and Chuck's punt was a finger to the rest of the sports world not giving them the respect they deserved. Williams certainly seemed to enjoy it and we had a good laugh about it.

    Now it's a sign of ruined moral fiber. Go figure.

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