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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
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Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

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  • #1

    Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

    I think its pretty obvious by now that even the most blind of Jermaine O’Neal fans can now see that his talent is severely limited. Sure he’s playing with a gimpy knee, but then again when isn’t Jermaine hurt? Sure he’s gutting it up to play in games with that Gimpy knee, but still the Pacers have lost the last 13 of 14 games. I repect any Jermaine O’Neal fan that comes on this board and just is ,well, a fan. But when it comes right down to it Jermaine trys to do to much with the limitations that he has. How can Jermaine change his game? Well believe it or not his game only needs a tweak or two.
    fficeffice" />>>
    He needs to learn that when he gets the ball with 9 seconds on the shot clock and a double team coming at him how to find an open shooter….but wait there are no shooters on this Pacer team. Jermaine has LIMITED range and hops. He is to casual after a dunk or a fade-away jumper (make or miss) for my taste. But you know what? That’s O’Neals game and it isn’t going to change. The Pacers need a decent point, and shooting guard out on the floor with him. I don’t mean another two projects. I mean a couple of vets with gas left in the tank. The only thing is that the only players that anyone will be interested is O’Neal, Granger and maybe Foster. Lets not forget that O’Neal can opt out after next season. The writing is on the wall for O’Neal and the Pacers…its now time to move him for a little of something instead of a whole lot of nothing.
    >>
    Danny Granger while only being a second year pro still makes to many of the same mistakes night in and night out. His passive aggressiveness on the court has cost the Pacers key baskets at key times. He does not cover the weak side rotation with any consistency and if his shots not going down he’s basically invisible on the court. I honestly thought early in this season that Danny could become the leader of this team, even over Jermaine…but for some reason he doesn’t do it or doesn’t want to make waves in the clubhouse. His post up game needs major work, but who on the Pacer coaching staff is capable of working with him on this? Danny needs a big mans camp and a self esteem course and he will be a fine pro. Danny still has upside!
    >>
    Jeff Foster is the biggest waste of money on this Pacer team, his injuries are almost rivaling Jonathan Bender, except Bender could shoot and Foster can’t. Lately Jeff has been totally ineffective on the floor, commits the worst kind of unnecessary fouls and isn’t rebounding worth a tinkers darn. Foster needs to go, faster than O’Neal and Tinsley. He is basically a luxury on a team that has other glaring needs. He also has been getting in lengthy conversations with officials after the dumb fouls that hes been committing, can anyone say Stephen Jackson.Fosters skills are on the downword slope, and that isn't saying much.
    >>
    Jamal Tinsley, well if you didn’t see the San Antonio game then you don’t know how bad its got for Jamal. His floor game is one night adequate and then the next night terrible. His shooting is one night adequate and then the next night terrible. When it comes right down to it, he isn’t a player that your ever going to go anywhere with. Meaning that Tinsleys game belongs on the playground, because his attitude, and his skill set is ALL playground. Who was the last playground legend to make good in the NBA? The next playground legend to make good will be the first. Jamal will probably be bought out at the end of the season because the Pacers have continually tried to move him and no one wants the attitude and the inconsistent skill set.
    >>
    Last but not least how about talking about the Pacer fans that want to get rid of Rick Carlisle. Eveyrone says that Rick has LOST this team. My question is that to lose a team you first have to have a team. None of the starters play with the intelligence or attitude that it takes to be a competitive NBA team. The bench at times plays way above their skill sets, but usually fizzle out against any other teams starters. How about a point guard that can be an extention of the coach on the floor…is Tinsley even close to that? How about a franchise player that makes the players around him better? Jermaine has NEVER made anyone around him any better. He’s one of the blocked shots leaders in the NBA, but what good has that done for the Pacers? It hasn’t, so it’s a non factor stat. Do injuries play a part? Sure, but every team has them, what every team doesn’t have is a GM that tries to be more then fair with his players,in a way he overcompensates for the small market that the Indian Pacers are in. Rick Carlisle will be the coach next year as will Donnie Walsh will be the GM. Who are you going to find with a better track record then these two….really!

    I would really love to bash the Golden State players, but the problems that this Pacer team is having has been here for a lot longer than January of this year.
    >>
    Players that WILL BE moved this summer right before or during the draft include, Jermaine, Jamal, Jeff Foster, Troy Murphy, Keith McCloud.

    Possible replacements…Kevin Garnett, Randy Foye, Loul Deng, Ben Gordon, Kurt Heinrich, Paul Gasol, Mike Miller, Andre Miller, Omeka Okafer , Raymond Felton, Adam Morrison, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Ryan Gomes, Ray Allen…..
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

    Originally posted by DaSMASH View Post
    Danny Granger while only being a second year pro still makes to many of the same mistakes night in and night out. His passive aggressiveness on the court has cost the Pacers key baskets at key times.

    How can a Pacer's play be passive aggresive? Does he turn to Tinsley in the huddle and say "well, I guess I can take the shot if you don't think you can make it"?
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    • #3
      Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

      Originally posted by DaSMASH View Post
      Players that WILL BE moved this summer right before or during the draft include, Jermaine, Jamal, Jeff Foster, Troy Murphy, Keith McCloud.

      First, would anyone take Murphy's contract on? Second, who would be left to play center...David Harrison???

      Originally posted by DaSMASH View Post
      Possible replacements…Kevin Garnett, Randy Foye, Loul Deng, Ben Gordon, Kurt Heinrich, Paul Gasol, Mike Miller, Andre Miller, Omeka Okafer , Raymond Felton, Adam Morrison, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Ryan Gomes, Ray Allen…..
      I would absolutley love to have either of these players on this team. Ray Allen would give us a consistent shooter and a definite starter at the SG position. Reasons for wanting KG are obvious. But Ben Gordon is a rising star and would help our shooting and he can be a reliable scorer.
      I think KP is a Captain Planet fan. He believes that the collective will of five decent starters can outweigh the power of top-level talent. Too bad Herb won't cut the check for their Planeteer rings.

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      • #4
        Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

        Originally posted by DaSMASH;559773[FONT=Times New Roman
        Jeff Foster is the biggest waste of money on this Pacer team, his injuries are almost rivaling Jonathan Bender, except Bender could shoot and Foster can?t. Lately Jeff has been totally ineffective on the floor, commits the worst kind of unnecessary fouls and isn?t rebounding worth a tinkers darn. Foster needs to go, faster than O?Neal and Tinsley. He is basically a luxury on a team that has other glaring needs. He also has been getting in lengthy conversations with officials after the dumb fouls that hes been committing, can anyone say Stephen Jackson.Fosters skills are on the downword slope, and that isn't saying much.[/FONT]
        What in the world are you talking about. He's had one minor injury all season and he missed two games - all season.

        Needless to say I disagree with everything you posted in total, including the tone

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        • #5
          Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

          Originally posted by DaSmash
          He also has been getting in lengthy conversations with officials after the dumb fouls that hes been committing, can anyone say Stephen Jackson.
          Come on, now...
          Were you just trying to get my attention with that line?
          ...Still "flying casual"
          @roaminggnome74

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          • #6
            Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

            I strongly disagree that Foster is just a big waste of money.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMltKsoDwe8&NR=1
            press pause on the second slow-mo replay around 0:12 mark

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            • #7
              Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

              The Foster analysis is way off base, but the Tinsley analysis was "smashing".

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

                "Is it Talent or Attitude?" Maybe, but it is also chemistry. These players just do not fit well together. Maybe give them a full training camp to get to know each other (and get healthy), but this current roster is just defective.

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                • #9
                  Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

                  Totally disagree on the Foster comments. I think he gets hit with some ticky-tack fouls and yes he does make a whine after it but I don't see him yelling at officials instead of getting back on D.

                  Hell, he's probably the only dude still hustling on the team.

                  As for Jermaine, Jamaal, Foster, Murphy, and McLeod all definitely being moved by the draft, I'll believe it when I see it. I hope you're right regrading the first two, though.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

                    How does Gilbert Arenas get his own commercial for staying on the bench for the first 40 games of his career? Jermaine O'Neal was on the bench for four years (he probably would have been better off spending those years on campus) before his big break!

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

                      Originally posted by Shaggy View Post
                      "Is it Talent or Attitude?" Maybe, but it is also chemistry. These players just do not fit well together. Maybe give them a full training camp to get to know each other (and get healthy), but this current roster is just defective.
                      Yeah, and this dude is right (I think). Except for Troy Murphy - he is third-string at best.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

                        Like everyone....I disagree about your comments about Foster...but does agree that I think he will likely be moved.

                        I think that either Granger or JONeal will be traded...but not both. I really hope that TPTB try to package Tinsley and ( maybe ) Foster with either of them to try to get the best Backcourt available ( I'm not saying getting all-stars....I'm just saying the best one available ). I know that Tinsley+JONeal has a lot of salary going out....but I would have no problem taking back ( at most ) one bad salary as long as that bad salary fills a need.
                        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

                          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                          Like everyone....I disagree about your comments about Foster...but does agree that I think he will likely be moved.

                          I think that either Granger or JONeal will be traded...but not both. I really hope that TPTB try to package Tinsley and ( maybe ) Foster with either of them to try to get the best Backcourt available ( I'm not saying getting all-stars....I'm just saying the best one available ). I know that Tinsley+JONeal has a lot of salary going out....but I would have no problem taking back ( at most ) one bad salary as long as that bad salary fills a need.
                          We also need to trade either Dunleavy or Murphy. I would prefer to keep Dun because he at least tries to get into the game a little more often than Murphy who is content to have a good game once a week which he learned from JT (or the other way around). This team just doesn't expect to win because they do not have confidence in one another.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

                            I ditto the Foster comments. Sorry Smash, you can complain about Foster's offense all you want. Maybe even talk about his soft screens, even though he is one of the few players on this team who attempts to screen. But to complain about his injuries... well, I'm sorry.... I really don't think you know what you are talking about.

                            As for Jermaine, when you posted your first rant about the Pacers, you mentioned then that his blocks were basically a meaningless statistic. I think that is also BS. Blocked shots are always important. They may be "icing on the cake", but jeesh man... they are often run busters or game turners. The problem is not that Jermaine blocks shots, its that we don't do other things defensively as well as we should.

                            With respect to Tinsley, anyone paying attention knows that I loathe Tinsley. But even I will admit that he has an excellent offensive skill set when it comes to handling the ball. His problems, apart from the fact that he can't play a lick of defense, are that he makes poor decisions, pushes his own agenda a little too much and loses focus on the needs of the team.

                            Regarding Danny, I've always had the opinion that young players show their most marked improvement in their 3rd season. Going into this season, Granger had obviously added significant range to his jump shot. And, early on, he was fairly consistent with it.

                            Even though I haven't seen a lot of the games since early December, I'm assuming that Danny is now recognized by other teams (especially after the trade) as being one of the potential scorers on this team and is being guarded much better, even on the perimeter. But I'd wait to see what we can add this summer to alleviate pressure on Danny, as well as Danny's improvement over the summer before I'd give up on him.

                            For trades this summer, I'd probably keep Granger, Foster, Dunleavy, Williams, Diogu and Marshall. But I'd be willing to trade everyone else. I'd also be willing to part with Foster and Dunleavy if it returned something really worth while.

                            We need a true leader, preferably at the PG position. We need perimeter defenders and consistent shooters. Aw, what the hell? We need damn near everything.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Is it Talent or Attitude thats in question?

                              Originally posted by DaSMASH View Post
                              fficeffice" />>>
                              Last but not least how about talking about the Pacer fans that want to get rid of Rick Carlisle. Eveyrone says that Rick has LOST this team. My question is that to lose a team you first have to have a team. None of the starters play with the intelligence or attitude that it takes to be a competitive NBA team. The bench at times plays way above their skill sets, but usually fizzle out against any other teams starters. How about a point guard that can be an extention of the coach on the floor…is Tinsley even close to that? How about a franchise player that makes the players around him better? Jermaine has NEVER made anyone around him any better. He’s one of the blocked shots leaders in the NBA, but what good has that done for the Pacers? It hasn’t, so it’s a non factor stat. Do injuries play a part? Sure, but every team has them, what every team doesn’t have is a GM that tries to be more then fair with his players,in a way he overcompensates for the small market that the Indian Pacers are in. Rick Carlisle will be the coach next year as will Donnie Walsh will be the GM. Who are you going to find with a better track record then these two….really!
                              Seriously the pacers have traded away too many players to count to fit Rick's system and it still hasnt worked eventually you cant keep trading players to find those that fit the system because if you do you take on players that nobody intially would think about getting(Murphy, Dun,Daniels) after a while moving players and still not working you have to take a look at the system thats being run and by whom.

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