Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 88

Thread: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

  1. #1

    Default Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Not that enjoy watching them lose, but the absolute worst case scenario is for them to miss the playoffs AND the draft pick this year. In order for them to keep the pick, they have to be one of the worst 10...which by my calculations, at least at this moment in time, is only if they manage no better than a .450 record.
    As of the loss to Philly, they are 29-32 (.474), and would have to finish the rest of the way no better than 6-15, which a month ago I would have not thought possible...but now is.
    If they could do like the baseball Cardinals and flip a playoff switch, then fine...but I see no signs of life like that...and they have no team leader who is the basketball equivalent of Albert Pujols.
    I almost hate to see them get the 8th seed, because it's one and done if they play the Pistons...but at least that's marginally better than finishing 9th or 10th seed and walking away with nothing, no playoff/no pick (first OR second round).

  2. #2
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    6,938

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Good thread title. Really expresses the anguish of indirectly rooting for the lottery protection to kick in.

  3. #3
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northside Bias
    Posts
    12,960

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    You know, we're only 2 games out of the 10th spot:

    1. Memphis (16-48)
    2. Boston (18-43)
    3. Charlotte (22-41)
    4. Milwaukee (23-39)
    5. Atlanta (25-39)
    6. Philadelphia (25-38)
    7. Seattle (25-37)
    8. Portland (25-36)
    9. Minnestoa (27-35)
    10. New Jersey (28-35)
    11. NO/Oklahoma City (28-34) .5
    12. Golden State (29-35) .5
    13. Sacramento (28-33)1
    14. Orlando (29-34) 1
    14. New York (29-34) 1
    16. Indiana (29-32) 2

    Sure, it's 6 teams we have to do worse than, but the way things are going...

    (Of course, as has been said, we'd probably get screwed in the lottery and end up with the 11th pick. )
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Woodside,NY
    Age
    32
    Posts
    281

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I guess I can see the logic of tanking the season to get the 1st pick and draft a franchise player like Oden who will improve that team by 10 games atleast, but tanking the rest of the season to get the 10th pick and hoping to get somebody who can crack your rotation next season boy thats pathetic. You guys make it sound like this 10th pick is going to be the franchise's savior.

  5. #5
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,987

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_D View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I guess I can see the logic of tanking the season to get the 1st pick and draft a franchise player like Oden who will improve that team by 10 games atleast, but tanking the rest of the season to get the 10th pick and hoping to get somebody who can crack your rotation next season boy thats pathetic. You guys make it sound like this 10th pick is going to be the franchise's savior.
    While making the play-offs, getting sweeped in the first round and then seeying one of the best drafts unfold without a pick is going to make this team better?

    I will take that pick with open arms, thank you. Unlikely we will get a superplayer, but most certainly a decent player at the least, which definitely could help this team and its currently limited talent level.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  6. #6
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Venice, CA
    Posts
    9,690

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    If you can't suck it up and root for your team, just root for your team to suck.

    If it's the last game of the season and losing means we get the #1 pick, I would root for the team to win. It's just how I'm built. I'll go to my grave knowing that I'm right to do so.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  7. #7
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,987

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you can't suck it up and root for your team

    *snip*
    I'm not any less of a fan then you. I will always root for my team.

    That doesn't mean that in my heart I rather have the pick then seeying four one-sided games, followed by the draft without a pick, followed by the ENDLESS number of threads about not having a draftpick this year, many from the same people, like LA, who are now claiming that getting to the play-offs is like getting to the promissed land and pointing at people seeying it differently as people who "can't suck it up" to root for their team.

    I guess beying a 50/50 team, but making the play-offs every year, consequently going out in the first round aside from one or two token second round appearances, and supporting that as a fan makes you a better fan or something?

    Mourning

    edited, and warning issued - Shade
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  8. #8

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I have been a PACERS fan for a long long time (even from ABA days). I always buy playoff tickets hoping for a long run. Always thought we had a chance to win but with this team I don`t get the same feeling. I`ll take a low lottery selection to get a decent player( maybe a nice PG ) then to getting wiped aside in the first round. PLUS do not forget still have a chance to get a top 3 pick (which could be used in a trade to a better player). here`s hoping the ping pong balls bounce our way!!!!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I guess that's why I worded the initial post the way I did, as some fans get this visceral reaction with just the suggestion of tanking the season. We can get into a whole debate over this.

    My point was that I think this team is showing no signs that it is capable of anything more than a first round exit...best case scenario. No one can argue that. Whether that's Tinsley's fault or RC or the offense around JO, I don't know.

    And no, the 10th pick doesn't secure you a top player, but in 'this' draft it might...as opposed to the picks in the next few years (Atlanta has to choose between now and 2010). And remember, although statistically if we end up #10 we should get #10, Boston had a 33% chance to landing Duncan and the Spurs (with something like a 10% chance), ended up with him. Now how many here wouldn't swap a first round playoff exit for Oden/Durant...or even a chance at one of them.

    Additionally, who knows if the Pacers might swap Tinsley and/or JO (or others) to move up from #10 to say, #3 or #2. Don't you suppose a Jerry West might just trade a Noah for a sure thing like JO...again, I'm not landing on any one side of this issue, but this is just a 'for instance' example.

  10. #10
    Member circlecitysportsfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Noblesville, IN
    Age
    33
    Posts
    579
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Sorry but i want the Pacers to lose as many games as possible. It is what is best for the long term future of this team. If you have even the slightest chance at greg oden or durant or any pick in the 10 you have to take it.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    31
    Posts
    257

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I suppose my take on the whole thing is this:

    I don't really WANT the Pacers to lose, losing is painful. However, with that being said, I would rather them lose now in the hopes of landing a good player in the draft or finally forcing management to make some changes rather than barely making it into the playoffs only to be ejected in the first round.

    Does that make me a bad fan? I don't think it makes me any worse of a fan than those cheering for mediocrity.

  12. #12
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,987

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordecaii View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I suppose my take on the whole thing is this:

    I don't really WANT the Pacers to lose, losing is painful. However, with that being said, I would rather them lose now in the hopes of landing a good player in the draft or finally forcing management to make some changes rather than barely making it into the playoffs only to be ejected in the first round.

    Does that make me a bad fan? I don't think it makes me any worse of a fan than those cheering for mediocrity.
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  13. #13
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordecaii View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I suppose my take on the whole thing is this:

    I don't really WANT the Pacers to lose, losing is painful. However, with that being said, I would rather them lose now in the hopes of landing a good player in the draft or finally forcing management to make some changes rather than barely making it into the playoffs only to be ejected in the first round.

    Does that make me a bad fan? I don't think it makes me any worse of a fan than those cheering for mediocrity.
    Well said. The team continues on to a new season next year. It doesn't end here. If this were the last season in the NBA, hell yes I'd root to make the playoffs and win as much as possible.

    But it's better for our 08 team to have that pick (without having to trade [also known as giving something up] for one, probably one at the end of the round) than it is for them to get slaughtered by Detroit in 4 games and have no pick (again, unless we give something up for it, probably Danny if we want a first-rounder).

    You can't treat every year this way, but when it makes the most sense, you do it.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,936

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I'd love to have the pick and even the slightest chance of a top 3 lottery pick, but I just can't bring myself to root for this team to miss the playoffs.
    This team is a great back court, and some chemistry away from a championship team, but they're still better then they're playing now.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    By the way, I've heard differing explanations here, that's why I'm asking...but does anyone know 'for sure' what the arrangement with Atlanta was. I was under the impression that they get a first round pick between the 07-08 and 10-11 drafts, but it was protected through #10...then someone on another post said it was protected through #10 THIS year, then it was only protected through #8 next year and maybe #6 the following, etc etc.

    Anyone know for sure here?

    Still, given the purported depth to this 2007 draft, I wonder if a #10 this year wouldn't be better than a #10 in other years...If I remember correctly the year Kobe came out he was after the Pacers pick (who I think was #10 Erick Dampier), for example. Also wasn't Amare a #9...

  16. #16
    Member Knucklehead Warrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    874

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    The process is called "Sportsmanlike Dumping". Some, like LA, would say there is nothing sportsmanlike about it. Others argue that purposely losing to improve your team's chances later on are worth it, i.e. the ends justify the means and there is no rule against it.

    This has been an ongoing debate for decades, particularly in the world of soccer and to some extent in bridge competitions. There is talk of a round robin in pro tennis, which would of course introduce sportsmanlike dumping by default. I wouldn't argue against it ever happening in the NBA.

    The Bridge World (magazine) puts the blame on condition of contest, i.e. if the rules were changed, it wouldn't be happening, therefore no issue. That's what the NBA has tried to do by introducing the lottery many years ago. Now dumping games to improve your draft pick is a more of a crapshoot.

    Is it sportsmanship to make your team better within the rules? Clearly it is. In fact you owe it to your team, your owners, and your fans. If a team chooses to miss the playoffs on purpose in order to improve itself, it seems to me that is a pretty high price to pay, yet if they insist that it is a fair price to them, then they should be allowed to do so.

    If that galls your sensibilities, as it slightly does mine, then perhaps some rules need to be changed.
    Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

  17. #17
    Banned Big Smooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,204

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Screw you! I'm not any less of a fan then you. I will always root for my team.

    That doesn't mean that in my heart I rather have the pick then seeying four one-sided games, followed by the draft without a pick, followed by the ENDLESS number of threads about not having a draftpick this year, many from the same people who are now claiming that getting to the play-offs is like getting to the promissed land and pointing at people seeying it differently as people who "can't suck it up" to root for their team.

    I guess beying a 50/50 team, but making the play-offs every year, consequently going out in the first round aside from one or two token second round appearances, and supporting that as a fan makes you a better fan or something?

    Mourning
    Good post. I've never really seen the usefulness in some fans beating their chest and claiming to be a "better fan" than others.

    Myself, I've never cheered for one of my teams to tank but when apathy sets in, you kind of come to accept all the possibilities and it all doesn't seem to matter quite so much. The last few Pacers games I've watched, I can't say that I felt any real passion for the P's.

    I've been watching the Pacers since Chuck Person's rookie season and the only other P's team that made me feel this apathetic was the 1996-97 team that quit on Larry Brown.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smooth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    I've been watching the Pacers since Chuck Person's rookie season and the only other P's team that made me feel this apathetic was the 1996-97 team that quit on Larry Brown.
    That's a really interesting observation Big Smooth, but I'm not so sure that team necessarily 'quit' on Larry Brown as much as just 'tuned him out'. Perhaps this is all semantics as functionally the outcome was/is the same. I really view this team (and the one the last two years, just tuned RC out)...much like New York did to LB in his first/only year in NY.

    What makes it frustrating is that the solution becomes more complex as it's clearly not just a matter of getting rid of Al and Jax...or Tinsley and JO or RC or anyone else. It is rapidly looking like this team as a whole doesn't 'believe' it can win, and when they come away with a win it's like they have a collective 'sigh of relief'. This team is getting a certain 'Grizzliesque' losing ethic...and I'm not sure a change in any one person will help. Championship teams have a certain confidence, or perhaps even a swagger of sorts.

    That all being said, I do think RC is a good coach, but something I've noticed back to his Detroit days (and when he was running the offense for Larry Bird) is that he does his best work when he does NOT have a single player to lean his whole offense around, no star player to cow tow to. Not to say that JO is a whiner necessarily, but his complaining early in the season about 'not getting touches' did prompt RC to change the offense to the boring 'toss it in to JO and everyone else stand around' again game plan.

  19. #19
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Venice, CA
    Posts
    9,690

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Screw you! I'm not any less of a fan then you. I will always root for my team.

    That doesn't mean that in my heart I rather have the pick then seeying four one-sided games, followed by the draft without a pick, followed by the ENDLESS number of threads about not having a draftpick this year, many from the same people who are now claiming that getting to the play-offs is like getting to the promissed land and pointing at people seeying it differently as people who "can't suck it up" to root for their team.

    I guess beying a 50/50 team, but making the play-offs every year, consequently going out in the first round aside from one or two token second round appearances, and supporting that as a fan makes you a better fan or something?

    Mourning
    Seriously, You start out with "screw you" and then put a tirade in about "people" - which is a cowardly way to passively accuse me of something.

    There is a huge HUGE difference between rooting for your team to win and being "satisfied" with mediocrity. Whoever said I was satisfied??? No but I guess you didn't accuse me of that, you just said "people".

    EDIT: Ending removed.

    Additional Edit: I'm all for tradeing to re-aquire a pick. but the idea that a #10 pick will somehow save our franchise is ... well ... not sound.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  20. #20

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I do not, for 1 second, believe the Pacers are going to purposefully tank the season for a high draft pick. However, I don't believe they are good enough to win more than 6 of their remaining game if they play at the top of their capabilities.

    If they played well, won all their remaining games and then the championship with who we have, I would be the happiest guy in Indiana. Unfortunatlely, its just not going to happen.

  21. #21
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,987

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Seriously, You start out with "screw you" and then put a tirade in about "people" - which is a cowardly way to passively accuse me of something.

    There is a huge HUGE difference between rooting for your team to win and being "satisfied" with mediocrity. Whoever said I was satisfied??? No but I guess you didn't accuse me of that, you just said "people".

    EDIT: Ending removed.

    Additional Edit: I'm all for tradeing to re-aquire a pick. but the idea that a #10 pick will somehow save our franchise is ... well ... not sound.
    There changed it as you requested!

    Now, please, if you could tell me to where I wrote that a #10 pick is going to "somehow save our franchise" then please feel free to point it out to me.

    Offcourse, you couldn't write that what most of the fans that see it like I do don't see that pick as our salvation, but as a good starting point to work from. Something that atleast gives us some flexibility this summer whether we keep it or use for a trade or for going up or down in the draft.

    Actually a much better starting point then you seem to be at the least suggesting with your trade... tell me again what are we going to give up to get into the first round, let stand the top 10?

    And for you taking your supposed moral superiority by claiming to go to your grave knowing your right for your point of view .... mind I suggest waking up at 02:00 AM about twice a week to listen to Pacers games before you take that moral superiority position of beying a better fan.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  22. #22
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,132

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    While making the play-offs, getting sweeped in the first round and then seeying one of the best drafts unfold without a pick is going to make this team better?
    It's called a culture of losing. And it very quickly becomes ingrained.
    Or are you missing that part??????

  23. #23
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,132

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you can't suck it up and root for your team, just root for your team to suck.

    If it's the last game of the season and losing means we get the #1 pick, I would root for the team to win. It's just how I'm built. I'll go to my grave knowing that I'm right to do so.
    Yes you are.

  24. #24
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,132

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordecaii View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I suppose my take on the whole thing is this:

    I don't really WANT the Pacers to lose, losing is painful. However, with that being said, I would rather them lose now in the hopes of landing a good player in the draft or finally forcing management to make some changes rather than barely making it into the playoffs only to be ejected in the first round.

    Does that make me a bad fan? I don't think it makes me any worse of a fan than those cheering for mediocrity.
    Do what makes you happy. But to a lot of us it makes you a LOT worse fan than those cheering for WINS.

  25. #25
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,987

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's called a culture of losing. And it very quickly becomes ingrained.
    Or are you missing that part??????
    By missing ONE play-off series (or do you seriously expect the team as currently constructed to take us... further??)? Riiiiiiiight .
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •