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Thread: Danny letting the team down?

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    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Danny letting the team down?

    Don't mean he isn't trying, but it ain't happening. And the effort isn't what it was last year. Won't be a popular opinion here but I think one of the biggest reasons we are stinking the place up (aside from the injury to Marquis) is that Danny has in no way done the job of becoming the 2nd option on this team. His defense is much less than last year, his rebounding has basically disappeared from the scene, as has his inside game. Finally even his jumper has been AWOL of late. Murphy and Dunleavy are MUCH better as 3 and 4 options than they are as 2 and 3.
    It's huge.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    He is slumping and struggling to push to the next level, but overall this year his game has clearly improved. He's not letting the team down, he's just not the instant star that some fans envisioned.

    I'm critical of his game from the "no, he's the greatest, let's build around him" fanboy attitude. But from my own modest expectations he's progressing just fine.

    I do think relying on him is hurting the team more than fans realize. He's got a lot of development to go still. I happen to think he's on a nice, steady pace. Not unlike the slow growth of Pippen, who took 3 seasons to really start to reach his true level as well.


    I just can't get over how much grief I caught for pointing some of his flaws back in NOV/DEC. Some fans just really didn't want to hear it I guess, or were so worked up about the usual suspects that they couldn't fathom that anyone else might be hurting the team.

    Replacing Foster for Danny was one of the best moves Rick made all season.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Right now, I don't expect Granger ( at this point in his career ) to be the 2nd scoring option player that we all hoped he would be when SJax and Harrington were traded ( which is different then wishing that he could be a very reliable 2nd scoring option player ) .

    If you revisit this thread in 1 year and he is still doing what he is doing now....then I am more apt to agree. But right now, this post is 1 year too early.
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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Danny is right where he should be offensively. Defensively he seems to have slipped a little, but that is probably due to fatigue or the same virus that makes every Pacer horrible on defense right now.

    Jumping from 7.5 to 13.5 PPG is a good thing. Next year will probably be closer to 16.5 - 19 PPG. Most players do have a 3 year buildup in points. Danny seems to be right where I expected him in year two on offense.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    He sure isn't stepping up thats for sure, seems like he is scared to take the shots
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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
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    He sure isn't stepping up thats for sure, seems like he is scared to take the shots
    Didn't he drain two threes in the last ten seconds the other night?
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Smooth_for_VICE Pres. Smooth_for_Pres.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by storm1015 View Post
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    Danny is right where he should be offensively. Defensively he seems to have slipped a little, but that is probably due to fatigue or the same virus that makes every Pacer horrible on defense right now.

    Jumping from 7.5 to 13.5 PPG is a good thing. Next year will probably be closer to 16.5 - 19 PPG. Most players do have a 3 year buildup in points. Danny seems to be right where I expected him in year two on offense.
    I agree. He seems to be struggling with his block and his dribble defense but I think he's right where he shoud be.

    PacerMan - What do you think he should be doing now that he isn't? No, he hasn't gone into the phone booth and emerged the super player that we would like, especially right now, but I think to say that he is letting the team down is unfair. As we all know, there are a lot more things going on with this team that don't promote the development of a young, talented player. I think Danny needs someone to help mentor him. One of the most endearing traits of Artest was his mentoring of Granger and it was known because Danny talked about how much he got out of those one-on-one sessions. I'll even throw back to Baby Al sleeping on AD's couch. Point being, I'm not convinced that Carlisle has made his development a priority and there isn't another vet on the team that is taking him under their wing. He's just expected to go out on the floor and be phenomenal while everyone else deals with suspensions, legal troubles, injuries, personal ambitions, or their own forgotten development. (Sorry, I guess i was venting a little)
    Yes, he could be better on D, but I need to know that HE's not the one being let down by the rest of this team.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    No, he is not letting the team down, he on the other hand isn't lifting them up either. I never thought Danny would be the first or second option on this team, now or prior to the last trade. Danny will never be more than a complimentary player and to expect more than that is pie in the sky thinking.



    I look at Danny as a tweener, and that is his main problem, too small to play PF and not quick enough at the SF spot, and this is why I think that he struggles on defense. He plays too robotic and not instinctively. I don't believe that the Pacers envisioned Danny being an allstar, just a sidekick for an allstar.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Right now, I don't expect Granger ( at this point in his career ) to be the 2nd scoring option player that we all hoped he would be when SJax and Harrington were traded ( which is different then wishing that he could be a very reliable 2nd scoring option player ) .

    If you revisit this thread in 1 year and he is still doing what he is doing now....then I am more apt to agree. But right now, this post is 1 year too early.
    Talking about NOW!
    I also expect he'll be playing much better next year. My point is that they made the deal in part because they thought he was ready to step up a notch.
    That isn't happening.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth_for_Pres. View Post
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    I agree. He seems to be struggling with his block and his dribble defense but I think he's right where he shoud be.

    PacerMan - What do you think he should be doing now that he isn't? No, he hasn't gone into the phone booth and emerged the super player that we would like, especially right now
    When the trade was made it was reported that part of the reason was to open up shots and time for Danny. At first he stepped up big time and had some great games. That has stopped. MAYBE because other teams are now giving him some defensive attention, I don't know.
    To answer your question: Get back in the paint, especially now with Jermaine out. Get some dang rebounds. SHow that shot blocking ability again. Go INSIDE when the jumper has deserted you (and even when it hasn't).
    "letting the team down" was too strong a statement. I didn't mean to imply that he's not doing his best. Simply that he isn't living up to what the PACERS expected of him.(which you could say about a lot of the team)

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan View Post
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    To answer your question: Get back in the paint, especially now with Jermaine out. Get some dang rebounds. SHow that shot blocking ability again. Go INSIDE when the jumper has deserted you (and even when it hasn't).
    I agree with this. Although I believe that his lack of presence inside has more to do with the plays being called. He's being asked to be a three point/perimeter shooter when it is not his natural strength. I don't know how else you can explain it when he was always known for his defense. In college and last season. It's the thing he does with instinct, as was commented on earlier. The only way you stop doing what is instinctual is when someone is telling you to do something else.
    As you can tell, I'm on the Fire Carlisle bandwagon but that's another thread.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan View Post
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    Talking about NOW!
    I also expect he'll be playing much better next year. My point is that they made the deal in part because they thought he was ready to step up a notch.
    That isn't happening.
    EDIT - After reading your further posts....I get what you mean.

    Maybe my expectations of him aren't as high as yours are.....but the kid has only played 1 1/2 seasons in the NBA going from backing up Artest and SJax to becoming a starter in his 2nd year. I just don't expect the world of him this soon . That's why I said that this is more of a valid post in another year.
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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    He is slumping and struggling to push to the next level, but overall this year his game has clearly improved. He's not letting the team down, he's just not the instant star that some fans envisioned.

    I'm critical of his game from the "no, he's the greatest, let's build around him" fanboy attitude. But from my own modest expectations he's progressing just fine.

    I do think relying on him is hurting the team more than fans realize. He's got a lot of development to go still. I happen to think he's on a nice, steady pace. Not unlike the slow growth of Pippen, who took 3 seasons to really start to reach his true level as well.


    I just can't get over how much grief I caught for pointing some of his flaws back in NOV/DEC. Some fans just really didn't want to hear it I guess, or were so worked up about the usual suspects that they couldn't fathom that anyone else might be hurting the team.

    Replacing Foster for Danny was one of the best moves Rick made all season.
    I pretty much agree with everything you said.Im a big Granger fan but lets face it at this stage of the game his offensive game is just not on par as a great number 2 option but its coming along.If anything I would be more concerned with his rebounding and defending ability.He was terrific at those two skills in college and even last season I saw alot of promise in that area.This season Granger has struggled in those two areas.Lets not make Granger more then what he is.He has potential to be a allstar caliber player in another season or two.Thats far different then saying hes a franchise player.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    No way is Danny letting the team down. He has been doing very well for a second year player, if you ask me. Yes, he needs to be more aggressive with his shot, and refocus on his defensive game. But this team has so many other problems right now. Danny will be fine, just give him time.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    My problem with Danny is he playing 10 minutes a night more yet he is rebounding less 4.9 rpg last season in 22 minutes to 4.8 in 32 mpg this season. To me he should be getting 6 or 7 boards a game , his assist have also remained the same 1.8apg.

    Its nice his scoring has jumped from 7.5 to 13.5 ppg , but I'd like to see the other areas improve to. Danny is Derrick McKey a good player but will tease Pacer fans who expect a little more.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Seeing the Warriors play all the time, I think it's really Carlisle's system that prevents players to just live up to their potential. Jackson and Harrington look great here. I guess taking off that mental pressure of having to play for a coach that controls everything and doesn't really give his players the confidence and freedom to play to their real strengths can cause anybody to struggle and underachieve.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    I've heard that Carlisle sucks because he won't let young players develop by giving them extensive time on the court to make mistakes and grow. Isn't that what they are doing now? Letting Granger sink or swim, sacrificing the current season for the future?

    Yeah, Granger right now isn't the player that he will become. Big shock. The question is whether the Pacers should be willing to lose now to improve their future.

    Count me in. Throw some more minutes to Ike and Williams while we are at it.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    [quote=diamonddave00;556701]My problem with Danny is he playing 10 minutes a night more yet he is rebounding less 4.9 rpg last season in 22 minutes to 4.8 in 32 mpg this season. To me he should be getting 6 or 7 boards a game , his assist have also remained the same 1.8apg.
    quote]

    Coming out of College i envisioned him getting 8 or 9bds a game, 1-2blks a game and being a great all around defender who could guard the 2/3/4 positions.Offensively I thought his potential was more in the range of a 15-16ppg scorer.I never thought he was going to be a huge scorer in the NBA. Like you I am amazed that his defense and his rebounding are not what they should be.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    [quote=mike_D;556876]
    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    My problem with Danny is he playing 10 minutes a night more yet he is rebounding less 4.9 rpg last season in 22 minutes to 4.8 in 32 mpg this season. To me he should be getting 6 or 7 boards a game , his assist have also remained the same 1.8apg.
    quote]

    Coming out of College i envisioned him getting 8 or 9bds a game, 1-2blks a game and being a great all around defender who could guard the 2/3/4 positions.Offensively I thought his potential was more in the range of a 15-16ppg scorer.I never thought he was going to be a huge scorer in the NBA. Like you I am amazed that his defense and his rebounding are not what they should be.
    i feel the same too. I can't believe Danny only has one double-double this year.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    I think Granger's giving everything he's got out there. Problem might be he's trying too hard to meet expectations - be effective on both sides of the ball.

    Shooting the ball tends to come naturally to most player, and Granger has had some good looks only his shots aren't falling. On the flipside, his defense hasn't been too bad. It's just not the lockdown defense we're use to seeing from his predecessor. That will come in time. Nonetheless, anyone who expects a SF to score 15+ ppg is asking alot in my book. Ron-Ron somehow managed to do it, but most SF don't because of the energy they have to expend throughout the course of a game. In time, he'll find ways to implement both aspects into his game.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Didn't he drain two threes in the last ten seconds the other night?
    Yeah, I have no problem with his confidence level at this point. He's just flat out learning what moves work for him in which situations, and he's battling the learning curve on both 1 vs 1 and team defense. I think he's actually worse as a 1 on 1 guy right now.

    He adapted pretty well to the pivot spot at the top of the 3-2 zone for example, and early on with that he was not good. Some guys absorb these things and other guys need time with them. Eventually it will become instinct to him I think, and he has the physical ability to still fit that Pippen-ish role when his awareness and game knowledge get there.

    That's a lot better than a really smart player with no guns to make good on his knowledge.


    But again, he doesn't look scared or lazy or any of that. In fact his effort is often TOO aggressive, exactly the reason he gets beat on some types of fakes.

    None of this would stand out much to me except that I see Shawne go out there with a lot more awareness and he would just be a college SOPH right now. Never expected that.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Granger is averaging 16 PPG as a starter after the trade. I don't have the other stats because I calulated that myself. It was 15.8 points, I believe.

    EDIT: I did rebounds. He had 4.6 a game, about the same as before. Only 7 of 22 games were under 4 boards, but several 1 board games weighed him down. When he learns to avoid those "one-fers", his average will probably be in the 5-7 range, which is right where is should be.

    He has a legit steal a game; that's a good sign.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    On his rebounding. Let's keep in mind that he was swung around to the 4 much of last year out of need. This year he's been pushed out to 2 at times and almost never at the 4.

    Maybe that's not a good enough reason, but possibly he defined his focus around where they were asking him to play.

    I look at Danny as a tweener, and that is his main problem, too small to play PF and not quick enough at the SF spot,
    I can't agree with that. That describes Croshere, and Danny is clearly much quicker and faster than Cro was. To me he's pure SF in the traditional mold, especially with his 3 range.

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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Since you guys watch the games more then I do......is Granger filling the role that Harrington pretty much filled when he was on the floor with JONeal ( as in camp on the 3pt line waiting for the ball...if it comes to him )?

    I'm guessing here....but maybe this could explain his rebounding #s....this is his role now....camp out in the perimeter waiting for the ball to get to him when JONeal is out there.

    I'm more interested in how he plays when JONeal isn't on the floor.....in terms of what he does...is it any different then what he does when JONeal is on the floor/game with him?
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    Default Re: Danny letting the team down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    On his rebounding. Let's keep in mind that he was swung around to the 4 much of last year out of need. This year he's been pushed out to 2 at times and almost never at the 4.

    Maybe that's not a good enough reason, but possibly he defined his focus around where they were asking him to play.


    I can't agree with that. That describes Croshere, and Danny is clearly much quicker and faster than Cro was. To me he's pure SF in the traditional mold, especially with his 3 range.

    Danny plays too erect and is a poor dribbler and relies on the 3 way too much. You are correct that he is quicker than Cro, but that isn't anything to brag about. Fans have compared him to Pippen, but Danny isn't half the player that Pippen was, and mainly because he is not quick.

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