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Thread: Trading J.O.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Oh, there is no chance in hell JO opts out.

    He still might get traded though.
    I agree with that

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    Since I have talked about Seattle a bit in this thread I think that any both of these trades you are basically saying JO=Ray Allen which is BS. Shawne is also worth more than Watson easily.
    I completely agree with you. On a talent level, JO is "better" than Ray Allen, and Shawne certainly should develop into a better player than Earl Watson could ever dream of being.

    That being said, JO played in 95 games over the two seasons prior to this on. Ray Allen played in 156. JO makes about $5,000,000 more per year than Allen. That's a mid-level player, which a team like Seattle could use. Also, the Pacers have far more frontcourt talent than they do backcourt talent.

    The only way the Pacers are going to get equal talent in a trade for JO is if they get draft picks and draft a guy that turns out to be a stud. The draft's always a crapshoot anyway.

    To close, and I think many would agree, look at these two lineups.

    Watson/Tinsley
    Allen/Daniels/Dunleavy
    Granger/Daniels/Dunleavy
    Diogu/Murphy/Baston
    Foster/Murphy/Harrison

    vs.

    Tinsley/Armstrong/Greene/McLeod
    Dunleavy/Daniels/Marshall
    Granger/Daniels/Williams
    JO/Diogu/Baston
    Murphy/Foster/Harrison

    Which would you rather have?

    One more thing, and I'll go on record with this, as long as Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird are in the front office, the Pacers will never undertake a Chicago/Boston style rebuilding process.
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  3. #53
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Would JO demand a trade? He doesn't strike me as demanding a trade. Kind of like KG with the wolves right now nothing is happening but no trade demand.
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    I completely agree with you. On a talent level, JO is "better" than Ray Allen, and Shawne certainly should develop into a better player than Earl Watson could ever dream of being.

    That being said, JO played in 95 games over the two seasons prior to this on. Ray Allen played in 156. JO makes about $5,000,000 more per year than Allen. That's a mid-level player, which a team like Seattle could use. Also, the Pacers have far more frontcourt talent than they do backcourt talent.

    The only way the Pacers are going to get equal talent in a trade for JO is if they get draft picks and draft a guy that turns out to be a stud. The draft's always a crapshoot anyway.

    To close, and I think many would agree, look at these two lineups.

    Watson/Tinsley
    Allen/Daniels/Dunleavy
    Granger/Daniels/Dunleavy
    Diogu/Murphy/Baston
    Foster/Murphy/Harrison

    vs.

    Tinsley/Armstrong/Greene/McLeod
    Dunleavy/Daniels/Marshall
    Granger/Daniels/Williams
    JO/Diogu/Baston
    Murphy/Foster/Harrison

    Which would you rather have?

    One more thing, and I'll go on record with this, as long as Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird are in the front office, the Pacers will never undertake a Chicago/Boston style rebuilding process.
    Honestly I would rather have the one we have. I know its like choosing between a kick to the balls and a punch to the face but I'll take the punch to the face. I think Earl Watson is such an overrated player by some on this board and the thought of JO and Shawne for Ray and Watson makes me ill.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Im not 100% convinced Indiana is going to trade JO this offseason. I think TPTB will see what is out there in terms of big names.Guys like Ray Allen,Bibby, J.Kidd,Vince Carter,Rashard Lewis, Pierce. These are all guys who could become available.If the pacers have a shot with a star I think there more likely to trade for them because I don't believe Bird and Walsh really want to have a major rebuilding project.

    If Oneal is traded I wouldn't mind one second trading him to the bulls if we could somehow get Hinrich.He's my ideal pg.But I think a more likely scenario would be a trade with the Celtics.
    They have some nice young talent at pg in West/Rondo, they have a Greene at SG and Jefferson at pf.I'm sure any of the above players would intrigue Indiana if we are truly looking to rebuild.

    For Boston getting Oneal would make alot of sense especially if they decide to keep Pierce plus the draft pick which could be Oden if he comes out. Boston at least on paper becomes pretty scary.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think it's more likely that Granger get traded than JO. An all-star big man is a rare commodity these days, and I dont think DW and LB are going to be quick to get rid of him. I could easily see us trading Granger+Dunleavy for a good, starting SG. If we did this, we have Shawne at SF who I feel has a much higher ceiling than Granger anyways. JMO though

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartlandFan View Post
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    I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think it's more likely that Granger get traded than JO. An all-star big man is a rare commodity these days, and I dont think DW and LB are going to be quick to get rid of him. I could easily see us trading Granger+Dunleavy for a good, starting SG. If we did this, we have Shawne at SF who I feel has a much higher ceiling than Granger anyways. JMO though
    I would be surprised to see them trade Granger. I like Williams as well, but maybe one of them can play SG. Granger has done it before and certainly he's a better defender of the position than MDJ. He is also a better shooter. So, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just start Williams at SF. We need his perimeter shooting.

    I would like to see the following lineup:

    Quis - PG
    Granger - SG
    Williams - SF
    Ike - PF
    JO - C

    We have a couple shot blockers in the middle, both with well rounded offensive games. We have a two good perimeter shooters in Granger and Williams. We have a slasher in Quis. Generally, this would be a good defensive team as well. Certainly Quis can bring the ball up the court as well as AJ. It would be a huge upgrade on D. Huge!

  8. #58

    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    One of the big problems with trading JO at this point may be the other quality big men available in trade - Gasol and possibly KG. Gasol has been on the trade block and after KG's reported comments about opt outs, he very likely could be as well. You could easily argue that those two players are more attract trade targets for opposing teams than JO. If all three are available they could drive down their already deflated trade values.

    I think TBTP missed an oppurtunity lasy year when NY had several expiring contracts. They had shown a willingness to except long contracts and could have taken Tinsley and / or Jackson. They had a few first round picks - 2 last year (although late picks). They had some decent, although not great, young talent (Crawford, Lee, Frye)

    The best option now may be Charlotte. I doubt you could get Okafor, Wallace, or Felton, but if they don't win the lottery (1 or 2) you may be able to get their pick and May. The key being not having to take back alot of salary.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartlandFan View Post
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    I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think it's more likely that Granger get traded than JO. An all-star big man is a rare commodity these days, and I dont think DW and LB are going to be quick to get rid of him. I could easily see us trading Granger+Dunleavy for a good, starting SG. If we did this, we have Shawne at SF who I feel has a much higher ceiling than Granger anyways. JMO though
    If JONeal stays.....I agree with you....but I don't think that it will be Dunleavy that's packaged with Granger....but Tinsley.

    Like it or not....the only way that I think that we can improve the roster...especially in the backcourt ( outside of trying to spending money on a FA that will likely be a backup player ) is to try to package Granger or Shawne with Tinsley.

    It may not be preferable....but I would argue that there are several reasons to try to move either Granger ( the likely candidate ) or Shawne:

    - Although Dunleavy should be the first to go...no one is going to take on Dunleavy's overpaid contract. I just don't think that many GMs want to take on the contract. If Dunleavy could easily be moved....he would have been moved by the Ws a long time ago. The reality is that Dunleavy's a decent backup player that is simply overpaid...no GM will take him.
    - Since Dunleavy isn't a long-term solution at the SG spot and won't likely be moved anytime soon....this means that we will have to figure out a way to get a new Starting SG ( Sorry...but I just think that Marquis is best used as the 1st Guard to come off the bench and should not...for now...be relied upon to be our starting SG ). Unless we are able to somehow sign Desmond Mason or Pietrus.....which I doubt....we're gonna have to trade for one.
    - Because I think that it is absolutely critical to move Tinsley while getting back the best Guard available......I don't think that Shawne will fetch as much of a backcourt as Granger would. Although I would prefer to move Shawne first....since Granger is more of a known quantity....he simply doesn't have as much trade value as Granger does.
    - Assuming that we somehow get a SG...but we don't move one of the existing SFs.....there isn't enough minutes to give to whoever our new Starting SG is, Marquis, Granger, Dunleavy and Shawne. Shawne won't be able to crack the SG/SF rotation without someone getting injured...or moved.

    If we could somehow move Tinsley ( by himself ), sign a FA starting PG that can run the show, somehow trade or acquire a SG without including Granger, Shawne or Ike....then I would be happy with keeping Granger or Shawne. But the way I look at it....if JONeal won't be moved or Granger, Shawne or Ike isn't traded....then we are going to be stuck being the mediocre team that we are now. Keep in mind that I don't want to move Granger cuz he's bad or anything...I just think that he's the best tradeable asset next to JONeal that can help us get rid of Tinsley and get a decent PG back in return...something that I think is absolutely critical for the offeason.
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    I don't think that the Pacers should trade JO because this would really hurt them defensively. Find some other way to get this turned around. But if it happens?

    JO and Shawne for Randolph and the Blazers number 1 pick? Of course Portland won't do it if the pick is 1 or 2. I wonder if Portland would do it for Noah at 3. Plus if the Pacers wind up with a top 10 pick of their own, maybe they could add Acie Law.

    There is always the Knicks. JO would probably like to play for Thomas. Would you trade Tins and JO for Francis, Crawford, Frye and whatever number 1 pick the Bulls give them. Don't the Bulls have the option of the Knick pick or Bulls pick or was that last year? Would NY do it? I still think it hurts the Pacers defensively unless Frye is better defensively than I think.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    Lets say we end up in the 11 to 14 range as far as our draft pick goes, losing it to the Hawks.

    How about O'Neal to Atlanta for a player & their 2 first rounders?
    The Hawks won't be much below the cap this summer, will they? A lot of Hawks players would be needed to make a deal - unless they wanted to send us Joe Johnson, which I doubt they'd do.

    The Hawks traded their '07 pick to the Suns in the Joe Johnson deal. The pick is top three protected though.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman View Post
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    The Hawks won't be much below the cap this summer, will they? A lot of Hawks players would be needed to make a deal - unless they wanted to send us Joe Johnson, which I doubt they'd do.

    The Hawks traded their '07 pick to the Suns in the Joe Johnson deal. The pick is top three protected though.
    I'd rather trade with the Celtics.Rondo or West+Green or Jefferson+Theo Ratliff and future 1st round pick for Oneal? Don't know if the Celtics will go for it but they have alot of young talent that they might make expendable if they can get a guy with Oneals skills.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Ship him back to Portland for Randolph, Pryzbilla and a 1st rounder.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by tora tora View Post
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    Ship him back to Portland for Randolph, Pryzbilla and a 1st rounder.
    If the Pacers traded O'Neal to get Randolph I probably wouldn't be a Pacer fan anymore. This coming from someone who knew what he did and was like around Marion Indiana in high school and don't forget the fact that he loved our fans so much he flipped us off in his home state. Oh yeah can't wait to get that guy, I imagine that'd take Portland a whole .2 seconds to decide but probably tell Donnie and Larry they'll call them back and think about it, so they have enough time to pop the champagne and pour it all over themselves in celebration in pulling off the heist of the century.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    If the Pacers traded O'Neal to get Randolph I probably wouldn't be a Pacer fan anymore. This coming from someone who knew what he did and was like around Marion Indiana in high school and don't forget the fact that he loved our fans so much he flipped us off in his home state. Oh yeah can't wait to get that guy, I imagine that'd take Portland a whole .2 seconds to decide but probably tell Donnie and Larry they'll call them back and think about it, so they have enough time to pop the champagne and pour it all over themselves in celebration in pulling off the heist of the century.
    Randolph would be worse than trading JO for Mo-Ron. What's worse is we would get a lesser talent who is also a bad character guy.

    I am ok with trading JO, but not for that garbage.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    We would regret trading Jermaine.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Get JO outta here. He is as soft as a pillow. Most overrated superstar in the league. Lets get someone who can take the ball to the hoop, someone who can take some contact w/o having to sit out the next 3 weeks. I dont know why people here are arguing about value for JO, anything would be an improvement.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Getting rid of Carlisle and actually runnin "today's style" of basketball can be both good for players and fans. . .Our boring team doesn't get anything done anymore. . I think Jermaine will stay if Rick is gone, but we also need to run the style of play our playersare used to!!! we need to Run

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan View Post
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    We would regret trading Jermaine.
    I agree....I think that we will regret trading JONeal....but I don't think we are going to have much choice in the near future.

    Unless we are able to move Tinsley somehow while getting a new starting SG ( without moving JONeal )....I don't think that ( at least between now and the 2008 trade deadline ) there is going to be any way to improve this team without trading JONeal ( unless we go down the "trade Granger" path ).
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I agree....I think that we will regret trading JONeal....but I don't think we are going to have much choice in the near future.

    Unless we are able to move Tinsley somehow while getting a new starting SG ( without moving JONeal )....I don't think that ( at least between now and the 2008 trade deadline ) there is going to be any way to improve this team without trading JONeal ( unless we go down the "trade Granger" path ).
    I agree we won't have much choice but the problem will be his contract versus relative trade value and exactly what we'd expect in return.

    I'm not sure reality lines up with expectations...

    Of course I'm looking at it from the POV that it's time to move O Neal (past time actually).

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneal07 View Post
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    Getting rid of Carlisle and actually runnin "today's style" of basketball can be both good for players and fans. . .Our boring team doesn't get anything done anymore. . I think Jermaine will stay if Rick is gone, but we also need to run the style of play our playersare used to!!! we need to Run
    Am I the only one that not entirely enamored with the style of play that we are trying to migrate to ( re: running "today's style" of basketball ) given the current roster of players that we have?

    The way that we played in the last 3 seasons may not have been exciting....but at least we played above average defense...and we were winning games. I don't know what to say....I may not like that our offense can often stall....but given the way this team is made up now....with an abundance of player that don't have a shred of defensive skills.....I think that we may have no choice but to change the way that we play and head in the direction that we are headed in.

    This is more of a question to those that have a way better understanding of Basketball then I do ( which is pretty much all of you ):

    With a player like JONeal ( a low-post to mid-range jumping scoring threat ) that has a supporting cast of 3rd/4th scoring options that play below average defense....what type of offense ( as in run/gun, half-court offense, slow the game down to a crawl basketball ) are we best suited for ( let's ignore whether Carlisle is the coach or not and whether he can run the type of offense that we maybe best suited for )?

    Based off of the way the team is currently built.....and after watching 4/5 of the season completed.....do you think that we are capable of running the type of offense that Bird wants us to?

    Should we mold the team's offense to our players skill's rather then try to mold the players into an offense that the rest of the league is trying to emulate?
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    This is more of a question to those that have a way better understanding of Basketball then I do ( which is pretty much all of you ):

    With a player like JONeal ( a low-post to mid-range jumping scoring threat ) that has a supporting cast of 3rd/4th scoring options that play below average defense....what type of offense ( as in run/gun, half-court offense, slow the game down to a crawl basketball ) are we best suited for ( let's ignore whether Carlisle is the coach or not and whether he can run the type of offense that we maybe best suited for )?
    The answer to your first question is an offense that is basically a grind the whole time...just keep feeding it down low and use JO's post skills to get a lot of our points. The rest of the time, we would take jump shots from the 3 point line and in. But the biggest part is that we would wait to score until there would be like less than 10 seconds on the shot clock.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Based off of the way the team is currently built.....and after watching 4/5 of the season completed.....do you think that we are capable of running the type of offense that Bird wants us to?

    With the way this team is current built, there is absolutely no way that we can run Bird's preferred offense. We just don't have the athletic enough forwards that are suited for that type of play.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Should we mold the team's offense to our players skill's rather then try to mold the players into an offense that the rest of the league is trying to emulate?
    I think if Bird wants to run so badly...he should bring in players that are capable for that. It would be an exciting style that fans would like, but we can't do that as of right now.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by denmunny6 View Post
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    Get JO outta here. He is as soft as a pillow.
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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyman37 View Post
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    The answer to your first question is an offense that is basically a grind the whole time...just keep feeding it down low and use JO's post skills to get a lot of our points. The rest of the time, we would take jump shots from the 3 point line and in. But the biggest part is that we would wait to score until there would be like less than 10 seconds on the shot clock.

    [/COLOR]
    With the way this team is current built, there is absolutely no way that we can run Bird's preferred offense. We just don't have the athletic enough forwards that are suited for that type of play.


    I think if Bird wants to run so badly...he should bring in players that are capable for that. It would be an exciting style that fans would like, but we can't do that as of right now.
    With the type of players that we have right now....I think that we should mold the offense to the players....not the players to the offense. Frankly, I don't care if the offense or games look boring if we have to slow things down .... as long as we play the best offensive system that will fit the current build of the team and we somehow pull off wins......then I am happy.

    That's what I have a problem with Bird wanting to run this "up-tempo, more exciting" offense......its like Bird wants the team to run like a Italian precision race-car but went out and got parts from a Ford and Hyundai and threw the parts under the hood expecting that it will just happen.

    Have the top teams in the league chagned their style of offense to match up with the current "trend" of NBA Basketball? I would hazard a guess that teams like the Mavs, Pistons, Spurs, Suns ( the lone exception ) and even the Heat haven't changed the way their offense runs.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Trading J.O.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    ....I don't think that ( at least between now and the 2008 trade deadline ) there is going to be any way to improve this team without trading JONeal ( unless we go down the "trade Granger" path ).
    That's what I think has to happen. Jermaines contract just limits things too much. There's no way to get value for him. And then we don't have a dominating scorer or much in the way of shot blocking. Get a decent 2 for Danny and if Shawne develops JErmaine will be very valuable again. He's not unstoppable so that makes him a whipping boy here, but every team in the league would love to have him.

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