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Thread: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

  1. #51
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    I wonder what it would take to just get our pick back from Atlanta?
    I was about to answer this, but I don't think anyone, even Granger, would get Atlanta to let Indiana have their pick back.

    They would obviously want O'neal, but they'd have to deal Joe Johnson and the pick, and I doubt they'd do that.

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    Member CableKC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by indyman37 View Post
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    yeah...i think...the more you lose the more ping pong balls you have.
    I know that sounded like a stupid question...but when I look at the NBA League standings on ESPN......our standing...relative to the bottom of the standings...differs based on how they figure out the "Games Back" compared to "Winning Percentage".

    I'm still trying to figure out if we are 2 games out of the 10th worst record in the league...or if we are 4 games out of the 10th worst record in the league
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Don't forget, Atlanta doesn't have their own pick either (they traded it to Phoenix for Joe Johnson), so I'm guessing they want to stay in this draft.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I know that sounded like a stupid question...but when I look at the NBA League standings on ESPN......our standing...relative to the bottom of the standings...differs based on how they figure out the "Games Back" compared to "Winning Percentage".

    I'm still trying to figure out if we are 2 games out of the 10th worst record in the league...or if we are 4 games out of the 10th worst record in the league

    the only way games back and winning % don't line up the same is if teams have a different number of games played.

    By the end of the season, it'll be the same, so don't worry about it.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
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  5. #55
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Seth said..."I don't consider losing the 12th pick this year horrifying compared to losing the 12th pick next year instead. This draft is deeper, but not that much."

    Some things to consider. If the Pacers get the 9th or 10th position in the lottery this could turn into the number one pick. Also the Pacers could be
    much better next year with who knows what off-season moves are made.
    Not likely but possible. So, before you assume that next year the Pacers
    will have a better pick there are some other factors to consider.
    This pick, 10 or better, may be the best pick the Pacers see for several years.
    {o,o}
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  6. #56

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Will you get back to us in 2008 when Atlanta gets the Pacers #9 pick after they struggle during rebuild mode with their #8 draft pick this year? Oops, there goes a PG higher rated than Acie Law, or oops there goes a PG you wanted instead of this project big man who is struggling to get it going (as plenty of 8-12 bigs end up doing).
    Or we can give Atlanta our 2008 pick which could be possibly 1-3 range. Works both ways but my point is that now is the time to start the process of changing this around since we have had 3 very tough seasons. The more tough times one has the harder it is to reverse that process. We could easily trade for a PG if we draft a coveted big.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I suppose the argument that a potentially higher draft pick next year would be more valuable than say, a #10 pick this year, is a valid one. On the other hand despite the purportedly large class of top PGs next year, is it worth giving up on the 'chance' of landing Oden or Durant?
    What bugs me is that in order to land that potentially higher pick next year we would REALLY have to torch yet another season to get it...and by then will we have any of the remaining pieces to win anything (JO gone? Danny's status? etc).
    The other consideration just might be that Atlanta decides to go ahead and let us pick the #11-14 this year...counting on the P's to really stink for the next year, then pick up the PG they want for the '08 draft.
    Perhaps the best case scenario is that the Pacers get the pick this year, then do horrid for 07-08 and land the PG they also need if they finish in the bottom 10 again. Again, I'm not certain as to the precise details of the deal with Atlanta, so I don't know if we only protect the top 8 for '08, then top 6 for '09, etc...or if it's just top 10 for the next 4 years.

  8. #58

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by kellogg View Post
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    I suppose the argument that a potentially higher draft pick next year would be more valuable than say, a #10 pick this year, is a valid one. On the other hand despite the purportedly large class of top PGs next year, is it worth giving up on the 'chance' of landing Oden or Durant?
    What bugs me is that in order to land that potentially higher pick next year we would REALLY have to torch yet another season to get it...and by then will we have any of the remaining pieces to win anything (JO gone? Danny's status? etc).
    The other consideration just might be that Atlanta decides to go ahead and let us pick the #11-14 this year...counting on the P's to really stink for the next year, then pick up the PG they want for the '08 draft.
    Perhaps the best case scenario is that the Pacers get the pick this year, then do horrid for 07-08 and land the PG they also need if they finish in the bottom 10 again. Again, I'm not certain as to the precise details of the deal with Atlanta, so I don't know if we only protect the top 8 for '08, then top 6 for '09, etc...or if it's just top 10 for the next 4 years.
    Right we manage to keep our picks until we restock this team with competitive athletes. In other words get a top 10 pick this year and a top 8 next year until we finally give up a 21-30 pick in three years or more.

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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Right we manage to keep our picks until we restock this team with competitive athletes. In other words get a top 10 pick this year and a top 8 next year until we finally give up a 21-30 pick in three years or more.
    So...the aim of the next 2 seasons is to tank so that we can keep our 2 draft picks ( get the 10th worst record this season...then get the 8th worst record the next season ) and then come out in the 2008-2009 season and actually try so that we can give the Hawks a cr@ppy pick?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  10. #60

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    So...the aim of the next 2 seasons is to tank so that we can keep our 2 draft picks ( get the 10th worst record this season...then get the 8th worst record the next season ) and then come out in the 2008-2009 season and actually try so that we can give the Hawks a cr@ppy pick?
    Yes if we can rebuild into a competitive team absolutely. Do you think that we should suffer through 10 and perhaps 20 game losing streaks only to have to repeat 10 and perhaps 20 game losing streaks? what's your scenario? Early exit in the playoffs and then whoopee we made the playoffs?

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Yes if we can rebuild into a competitive team absolutely. Do you think that we should suffer through 10 and perhaps 20 game losing streaks only to have to repeat 10 and perhaps 20 game losing streaks? what's your scenario? Early exit in the playoffs and then whoopee we made the playoffs?
    Assuming that we can't get the type of players in any JONeal trade that will allow us to stay competitive in the Playoffs.......I won't mind a complete rebuild....but I doubt TPTB will want that. I just get the sense that the Playoffs are the goal for TPTB....not rebuilding over the course of 2 seasons.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  12. #62

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Assuming that we can't get the type of players in any JONeal trade that will allow us to stay competitive in the Playoffs.......I won't mind a complete rebuild....but I doubt TPTB will want that. I just get the sense that the Playoffs are the goal for TPTB....not rebuilding over the course of 2 seasons.
    Personally I also don't want to gamble that trading JO will improve this team because if it doesn't then we are lots worse off than now. If JO is traded for really young guys we will have several more years of losing. Let's face it we can't improve by signing free agents and can't improve by making a one-sided trade yet again so we have to do it the old fashioned way by the draft. The people who think that this team will eventually click have to realize that while we have some decent players we don't have the makings of an elite team with the exception of JO. Other than DG we have a team of guys who were not really wanted elsewhere. The Eastern conference is retooling and we should too. Even the Knicks have better players than we do.

  13. #63

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Well folks...the Death March continues (#10):

    Statistics so far...win percentage 0.461..."good" enough for 8th seed tie, pending some other games' outcomes tonight.

    The 'magic number' is down to 13...they should finish no better than 6-13 to have a shot at the lotto...certainly a goal well within reach, especially after watching them 'snatch defeat from the jaws of victory' against Minny tonight.

  14. #64

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Yes if we can rebuild into a competitive team absolutely. Do you think that we should suffer through 10 and perhaps 20 game losing streaks only to have to repeat 10 and perhaps 20 game losing streaks? what's your scenario? Early exit in the playoffs and then whoopee we made the playoffs?
    When you think about the history of the Spurs, they sort of did something similar...after David Robinson got hurt, they had an absolutely dismal season, but that year of futility put them into position to eventually draft Duncan...and three championships later (and counting) they are still reaping the benefits.

  15. #65
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I'm "OK" with tanking this season, I'm definitely NOT "OK" with tanking next season.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  16. #66
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I think if we can "get by" Washington and Atlanta, our odds will rise quite a bit. The Atlanta game is a crucial loss. You know if they pass us in the standings, we have reached our "one goal". The rest of March is quite a promising schedule with San Antonio and alot of excellent teams to match up with. It should be a "good run".

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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I think if we can "get by" Washington and Atlanta, our odds will rise quite a bit. The Atlanta game is a crucial loss. You know if they pass us in the standings, we have reached our "one goal". The rest of March is quite a promising schedule with San Antonio and alot of excellent teams to match up with. It should be a "good run".
    Atlanta's gonna want to lose that game as much as we do...

  18. #68

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I think if we can "get by" Washington and Atlanta, our odds will rise quite a bit. The Atlanta game is a crucial loss. You know if they pass us in the standings, we have reached our "one goal". The rest of March is quite a promising schedule with San Antonio and alot of excellent teams to match up with. It should be a "good run".
    BlueNGold...this post is SO wrong !

    LOL

  19. #69
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Seth, I think the mentality is that Law, for example, might push us up to the 20s in draft pick range. If we do trade JO though and decided to blow this team up then no doubt I'd prefer waiting for next year. Especially if we somehow end up with someone like Eric Gordon who could really put butts in seats as well as help us win. I think the wisest move might be to stay in the playoffs, let the young guys get some more playoff experience...a butt-whupping by a team like Detroit could teach them a lot. Then in the off-season, you can trade JO to Chicago, for example, for that NY pick where Law might be available and get maybe one of the other young Bulls in the process. That way, you rebuild for next year. Go to war with the young guns and position yourself to rebuild nicely for 08.
    This is similar to what I said in the trade JO thread, you let ATL have it this year but trade back into the draft via JO. You accept a very brutal season next year and then add Gordan/Conley/etc...and Oden might be coming out next year instead.


    I'm still for fighting through as much as possible.

    BTW, one reason I don't believe tanking exists - what's the motivation for the PLAYERS? You are tanking for a pick, typically in a rebuild fashion. That means that the players may be facing a trade rather than being around to enjoy the new pick(s).

    On top of that you are ruining your own market value for that next contract as your stats go in the toilet. Players may not care about the team, but that just backs my view that they wouldn't "tank" for the sake of the franchise. They might just give up on their own, but not for the team's benefit (aka tanking).

  20. #70
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I don't believe the players are tanking, but right now this is not a very good
    team. Injuries along with poor chemistry and new players is not helping.
    {o,o}
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  21. #71
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Atlanta's gonna want to lose that game as much as we do...
    It reminds me of this from last season hehe...

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=20671
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  22. #72

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Death March...Fans Held Hostage...Day 11

    The 'magic number' is down to 12...win percentage (.454) now within striking distance of 'worst ten'.

    From looking at the list of games left...for them to finish no better than 6-12 is certainly right there for the taking.

  23. #73

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    This is similar to what I said in the trade JO thread, you let ATL have it this year but trade back into the draft via JO. You accept a very brutal season next year and then add Gordan/Conley/etc...and Oden might be coming out next year instead.


    I'm still for fighting through as much as possible.

    BTW, one reason I don't believe tanking exists - what's the motivation for the PLAYERS? You are tanking for a pick, typically in a rebuild fashion. That means that the players may be facing a trade rather than being around to enjoy the new pick(s).

    On top of that you are ruining your own market value for that next contract as your stats go in the toilet. Players may not care about the team, but that just backs my view that they wouldn't "tank" for the sake of the franchise. They might just give up on their own, but not for the team's benefit (aka tanking).
    I am in favor of tanking, because it is easier to get from 10 to let say 3 or 4 than trading JO to get in...

    if you guys remember a few years back, during Shaq's rookie year, the pacers and orlando is playing for the last playoff spot.. eventually we got the 8 spot.. but on lottery day, orlando got the first pick which theoretically should be ours... which they used to draft webber and traded him to Golden state for Penny and 2 more picks..

    just imagine what a young webber/penny can do to that pacer team..

    also, i want to lose now, make the players remember how it feels to lose, so that they appreciate what it means to win...

    I dont want this kind of season again...

  24. #74
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Losing isn't good for anyone involved.

    It makes Larry look incompetent.
    It adds another blemish to the Pacer franchise.
    It breaks a streak of playoff appearances Pacer fans are proud of.
    It doesn't bode well for Rick Carlisle ( who's recently been put on the hot seat by fans)
    It's not good for the regular rotation players.
    It's not good and counter-productive for players coming up on free agency.
    It's certainly not good for attendance.
    It's not good for the Simons or their bottom line.
    It makes the mid-season trade look worse than it really was and puts unnecessary strain on Dunleavy and Murphy.
    It puts JO in a bleak position considering his remarks about going elsewhere if he can't lead this team to a championship ( imagine not even making the playoffs).
    Half the league makes the playoffs. You don't want to be associated with the other half. Especially if you need free agents to shore up the roster.
    It's not a good note for Donnie to leave on.
    People start questioning the trades made last season.
    The common fan doesn't care about high draft picks they care about the playoffs.
    It's not ...in 49 states people are jealous of our high draft picks.

  25. #75

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    It's good if you ever want to see a franchise player on this team. AND
    It's good if you don't want this to happen again next season.

    No fan wants this but this is the cure for all the mistakes this franchise has made for many years and for all the nonsense this team has had to go through for the last several years. I also hate to see the pacers tank but given salary cap, not being able to sign FA, and no draft pick what else can this team do? Firing the coach won't give us better players.

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