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Thread: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

  1. #26

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Well, in keeping with the title of this post...as of the loss to Cleveland tonight the Pacers record is 29-33 (.468).
    The 'magic number' is officially down to 14; by my estimates, they would have to do no better than 6-14 the rest of the way to have a shot at #10 or better.

  2. #27
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    There changed it as you requested!

    Now, please, if you could tell me to where I wrote that a #10 pick is going to "somehow save our franchise" then please feel free to point it out to me.

    Offcourse, you couldn't write that what most of the fans that see it like I do don't see that pick as our salvation, but as a good starting point to work from. Something that atleast gives us some flexibility this summer whether we keep it or use for a trade or for going up or down in the draft.

    Actually a much better starting point then you seem to be at the least suggesting with your trade... tell me again what are we going to give up to get into the first round, let stand the top 10?

    And for you taking your supposed moral superiority by claiming to go to your grave knowing your right for your point of view .... mind I suggest waking up at 02:00 AM about twice a week to listen to Pacers games before you take that moral superiority position of beying a better fan.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    For the record, I did not request that you or anyone else edit your post.

    What does losing the rest of the games this season gain the team? A mid-level draft pick.

    Not worth it, and that's just my opinion.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Since when is 1-10 mid-level? Mid-level is from about 11 down to about 20.

  4. #29
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Since when is 1-10 mid-level? Mid-level is from about 11 down to about 20.
    I stand corrected.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  5. #30

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_D View Post
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    I guess I can see the logic of tanking the season to get the 1st pick and draft a franchise player like Oden who will improve that team by 10 games atleast, but tanking the rest of the season to get the 10th pick and hoping to get somebody who can crack your rotation next season boy thats pathetic. You guys make it sound like this 10th pick is going to be the franchise's savior.
    I have TOTAL CONFIDENCE that Walsh and BIRD will pull off the steal of the draft at #10 or wherever they might be.



    What I really find hard to believe is that people are STILL actually following this team

    WHAT a JOKE of AN ORGANIZATION

  6. #31

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    The idea that when your team really sucks you show your loyalty by not criticizing or figuring out a strategy to reverse it is just plain ridiculous. When your kid comes home with D's on his/her report card do you just accept it as a loyal parent or try to fix it. Acceptance of mediocrity is just that and does not indicate a more loyal fan but perhaps a fan who just accepts mediocrity. It's not that complicated.

  7. #32
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    You know what, I stuck my neck out for winning ball games, yet this companion thread is thin on suggestions:

    http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=30346

    I politely request participation there to round out the conversation. Who is going to be available at the #10 slot that is worth losing for?
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  8. #33

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    You know what, I stuck my neck out for winning ball games, yet this companion thread is thin on suggestions:

    http://pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=30346

    I politely request participation there to round out the conversation. Who is going to be available at the #10 slot that is worth losing for?
    Exactly what kind of upside to this team do you see that the rest of us are missing? Are you saying a top 10 pick won't help and that we should go another year with the team pretty much as is waiting for the 2008 draft before help is on the way? Or are you saying we should make a trade to get a pick whereby some team will give us a high round pick out of some kind of generosity? Suck it up now and try to change the team before the morale even gets worse.

  9. #34
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Exactly what kind of upside to this team do you see that the rest of us are missing? Are you saying a top 10 pick won't help and that we should go another year with the team pretty much as is waiting for the 2008 draft before help is on the way? Or are you saying we should make a trade to get a pick whereby some team will give us a high round pick out of some kind of generosity? Suck it up now and try to change the team before the morale even gets worse.
    We're playing the toughest part of the season's schedule against genuine contenders who are fine-tuning their games with our All Star Big man and our 6th man out.

    What kind of upside am I supposed to see?

    Are we going to lose a lot of our games from here on out? Yes.

    Are we going to fall to the bottom ten? Maybe.

    Am I going to be happy if that happens? No.

    Am I going to be happy if we end at .500? Overall no, but at this point that would mean winning a lot of games against good teams, so yes I will take joy from those victories.

    I'm never fully happy unless we are in the finals, and even then I was miserable when we lost to the Lakers, so no I would never in a million years say that I accept mediocrity. Far from it, I'm a perfectionist.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  10. #35
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    We have a critical game at Minnesota coming up. They are a team standing directly in our way...just 2 games back from us, holding the 8th worst record in the league. It is a crucial loss for us.

  11. #36
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    We have a critical game at Minnesota coming up. They are a team standing directly in our way...just 2 games back from us, holding the 8th worst record in the league. It is a crucial loss for us.
    THAT sounds so wrong, but damn you are right (IMO)

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  12. #37

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    We have a critical game at Minnesota coming up. They are a team standing directly in our way...just 2 games back from us, holding the 8th worst record in the league. It is a crucial loss for us.
    One of the greatest posts I read.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    There's another side of this that I just saw.

    We are riding a 9 game losing streak and are still in playoff contention. I am actually concerned about teaching guys like Granger, Diogu, and Williams that playing terrible basketball is good enough to get you in the playoffs.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    We are riding a 9 game losing streak and are still in playoff contention. I am actually concerned about teaching guys like Granger, Diogu, and Williams that playing terrible basketball is good enough to get you in the playoffs.
    Good point. On the other hand, if we actually make the playoffs, there will probably be some decent basketball played in the final fifth of the season.

    To make the playoffs Marquis Daniels will need to get healthy quick and Jamaal Tinsley will need to find a new lease on his basketball life. Both those things, along with a JO return to health, don't seem probable.

  15. #40
    Member indyman37's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    If I were the Pacers...I would rest JO and Quis for the rest of the season. I mean, why risk them just coming back and hurting it or in JO's case just keep playing on a nagging injury. I'm not saying this just because I want a draft pick this year. We should try to get them healthy for the offseason and start thinking toward the future.

  16. #41
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    We have a critical game at Minnesota coming up. They are a team standing directly in our way...just 2 games back from us, holding the 8th worst record in the league. It is a crucial loss for us.
    It may come down to who wants the loss more...


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  17. #42
    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    The biggest problem with trying to lose is Rick!

    He's very, very good when we play short-handed. Does an excellent job of maximizing the number of wins with sub-standard personnel.
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  18. #43
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    The biggest problem with trying to lose is Rick!

    He's very, very good when we play short-handed. Does an excellent job of maximizing the number of wins with sub-standard personnel.
    OMG, that's just counterproductive to our goals isn't it? Why the man should be fired !!!
    Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

  19. #44
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Does anyone know what happens if the Pacers keep their pick this year? That's right, they end up giving it away next year instead.

    Have you see the backcourt prospects possibly coming out next year? Huge depth of PG and SG, unlike this season where Law is the only PG current ranked anywhere near the top 15 picks, and there aren't than many SGs considered top 15 picks either.

    Let's give ATL the 15th pick this year, then pick up a guy like Conley with the 15th pick next year instead of letting ATL have that one.


    Since when is 1-10 mid-level? Mid-level is from about 11 down to about 20.
    But we all know that 1-5 isn't the same as 9-10. 9-10 is not that far off of mid-level. Go look at the random success of picking 8-12 in the draft. You could get a pretty strong player, or you could get a guy that no one ever hears from again. And the latter isn't exactly an unlikely prospect.

    Sooner or later the team will lose a 1st round pick. This draft might be considered deep, but is it really deeper in what the Pacers need than the 08 draft is? And while they might lose an 11-12 pick this year, next year they could be forced to give up a 9-10 pick instead as the protection gets less and less.

    Let's get this over with before it goes to unprotected just about the time the Pacers win the lottery in a few years (just saying you never know).

    I don't consider losing the 12th pick this year horrifying compared to losing the 12th pick next year instead. This draft is deeper, but not that much.

    Exactly what kind of upside to this team do you see that the rest of us are missing? Are you saying a top 10 pick won't help and that we should go another year with the team pretty much as is waiting for the 2008 draft before help is on the way?
    Will you get back to us in 2008 when Atlanta gets the Pacers #9 pick after they struggle during rebuild mode with their #8 draft pick this year? Oops, there goes a PG higher rated than Acie Law, or oops there goes a PG you wanted instead of this project big man who is struggling to get it going (as plenty of 8-12 bigs end up doing).

    It's not about waiting for 2008, it's about the fact that as each year passes the protection goes down. Pair that with the mentality of nuking it for a total rebuild through the draft and you see one massive problem - doing so means giving up a future low pick right when you need it to continue your draft rebuild.

    Either the team keeps tanking to keep their picks with lower and lower protection or they bite the bullet and let one go. This year's #13 pick could be next years #9, or 2009's #6 or 2010's #1. Is #13 this year really better than those other picks, especially if you are losing at a rate to be giving up picks that high?

  20. #45
    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    I wonder what it would take to just get our pick back from Atlanta?
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  21. #46
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Seth, I think the mentality is that Law, for example, might push us up to the 20s in draft pick range. If we do trade JO though and decided to blow this team up then no doubt I'd prefer waiting for next year. Especially if we somehow end up with someone like Eric Gordon who could really put butts in seats as well as help us win. I think the wisest move might be to stay in the playoffs, let the young guys get some more playoff experience...a butt-whupping by a team like Detroit could teach them a lot. Then in the off-season, you can trade JO to Chicago, for example, for that NY pick where Law might be available and get maybe one of the other young Bulls in the process. That way, you rebuild for next year. Go to war with the young guns and position yourself to rebuild nicely for 08.

  22. #47
    I consume tiny briefs Robobtowncolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    I wonder what it would take to just get our pick back from Atlanta?
    A plan?
    Narf!

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    I wonder what it would take to just get our pick back from Atlanta?
    Somehow I'm thinking of Spotswood and Gary from Team America.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Is the number of Ping Pong balls ( and therefore overall record ) determined by our winning percentage compared to the rest of the league?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  25. #50
    Member indyman37's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death March (aka 'Road to the Worst Ten' = Keeping Draft Pick)

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Is the number of Ping Pong balls ( and therefore overall record ) determined by our winning percentage compared to the rest of the league?
    yeah...i think...the more you lose the more ping pong balls you have.

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