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Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

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  • #16
    Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

    Originally posted by Shade View Post
    What is the Pacers' record losing streak? Because it will probably be 7 in a row after tomorrow night.
    I see 12 game streaks in '82-83 and '84-85.....
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
      Rick, Bird, and Walsh were all so inspired by the Pacers play in the second half, Rick is going to be coaching for at least the next 2 seasons
      Thats too bad...


      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

        Originally posted by MagicRat View Post
        I see 12 game streaks in '82-83 and '84-85.....
        Where are you getting that info. Online?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
          Where are you getting that info. Online?


          Do you have a Pacers media guide? They have season by season results and scores.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

            Originally posted by Shade View Post
            There's a reason for that.
            That's a pretty good line.

            It's sucks that leaving Tinsley wide open is smart defense.

            -Bball
            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

            ------

            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

            -John Wooden

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

              Originally posted by Dat Dude View Post
              Whatever floats their boat. Sad day when you come on the Pacers board and we are happy because the team TRIED to play hard.
              I'm with you. I have the opportunity to listen to the game on the Kings radio station....and I gave up listening to the game after the half cuz I pretty much knew what was going to happen. Its good that we kept it close....but we simply have so many flaws on this team that I knew that there was no hope for us to pull out a win.

              If we're not going to win any of these upcoming road games...much less win any game without Marquis ( who I hope is going to rest and recover until we return from the road trip )....I really wouldn't mind if TPTB really opened things up and extended Ike and Shawne's minutes ( sink or swim ) so that we can get a better idea about what we have with them going into the offseason....cuz that's all that I am looking forward to.

              What's bad about this season is that many of us are slowly starting to lose the one thing that we have always had....hope.
              Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                Originally posted by pacerwaala View Post
                Does Kevin Martin remind anybody of a young Reggie Miller? lean SG, awkward looking jump shot but gets the jobe done!
                Yea, SOME similarity.... height, weight, nothing more. Very different games! But awkward looking jumpshot? Reggie??? Why does so many people say that? You cant even explain if i gave you 10000 millions... Reggies jumpshot was EXACTLY like a slower Ray Allen jumpshot from an experienced ballers view, look carefully... both have exactly the same motion and shooting procedure, stroke, followthru... the THING that fools almost all Fans is his weird "after effect" or "backslash" if you call it, he kindoff throws his shooting arm to the left side AFTER the ball has been released, after the followthru.. you can even hear it sometimes, when his arm smacks his left arm after the ball has been released. I mean, if THAT was his shooting procedure and follow thru then the ball would be in the stands 24 / 7...
                But it has nothing to do with the shooting procedure... ITS HOW IT LOOKS BEFORE YOU RELEASE AND WHILE YOU RELEASE THE BALL.

                After you release you can put your shooting arm in the butt, who cares... its just a habit....... Understand my point? It has nothing to do with the shooting procedure, its just simply something you love to do after you shot it!

                Kevins shooting tho.... oh my god, i can write a book with all the things he does wrong. He is a walking miracle... honestly, he and Shawn Marion. Kevins shooting motion looks like the shape of an "S", if you look from behind him... while a shooting motion should look like straight like a line.. "l" ... straight UP. Not like Kevin Martin, ball goes from right side of his hip to the left side of his head / shoulder and then followthru goes --------------->
                Its ridicilous!!!! Honestly, i wake up sometimes having nightmares, me dreaming that i stuck with a shooting procedure like that! Its HORROR! But it works.........


                Anyways! Ontopic, Good game! A loss, but they showed some heart/effort tonight indeed... i have nothing to complain about.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                  Originally posted by bnd45 View Post
                  1. We couldn't make up for Bender II's abscence.
                  please don't jinx us with that one. that's the last thing we need now Marquis, get well soon.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                    I don't know, folks. Yes, there was noticeable energy at times in the 2nd half. At the same time, the nearly overcoming a 20 pt deficit and exciting style of play must be considered within the context of our opponent for the game.

                    As we are well aware Sac is a notoriously defensively challenged team, not so unlike us now. I might go so far as to say the teams in question suffer from defensive intolearnce syndrome. But, true there was some entertainment value.

                    Keep Dun's 3 attempts low to non existent. He's a much more proficient shooter from midrange. Yes, Tins could stand to take that advice, too. Murphy will have to put that type of game together over time to convince me he's worth anything and against somebody other than ol' soft touch Sactown.

                    And if the losses just a keep on comin', hope the top 10 pick isn't far behind.
                    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                    -Emiliano Zapata

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                      Where are you getting that info. Online?

                      Some of the young whippersnappers who think this season is bad need to check these out....

                      http://www.basketballreference.com/t...D&yr=1982&lg=n
                      http://www.basketballreference.com/t...D&yr=1984&lg=n
                      PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                        Yeah so we lost, BUT...

                        I think we made progress. I'll give props to Carlisle for making some nice adjustments to the offense to help us get easier baskets, I like the fact that he threw Orien Greene in the mix with a point guard to give us a defensive presence, and I'll even give Carlisle credit for keeping this team focused last night.

                        A couple of people mentioned that Granger is still in his slump, and I'm going to disagree. Ok, yes from three-point land he's not knocking them down, but twice last night I saw him split a double team -- once for a dish to Ike for a layup + free throw, and the other time he split it for a nice layup. He had a couple of other aggressive baskets as well. I'll take him attacking the basket [I wish he'd try to draw more fouls] any day over him wasting his talent camping out beyond the three-point line.

                        I liked Dunleavy's aggressiveness, I liked Murphy's aggressiveness, and I liked the fact that Jermaine did his thing without dominating the ball. I think what lost us the game tonight was Tinsley's slow feet on Bibby. In the 4th quarter Bibby knocked down a series of jumpers off a few screens -- screens which Tinsley was extremely slow at recovering from.

                        Back to Carlisle though. I've said a lot of negative about him even though I don't dislike him at all, I've felt he's not the right coach for this team. It'll take a lot more than one game to convince me that he's the right guy, but last night he made some changes I thought he'd be too stubborn to make.

                        The biggest thing he did was he made Jermaine's game blend in with the rest of the offense instead of Jermaine dominating the offense. In addition to that, there was non-stop ball movement all-night-long. It didn't even look like we were the same team we've been offensively all season. Sure, it was against the Kings, but we all know we're known for making other teams' defense look good. We actually shot a good percentage from the field even though we were 1-16 from three-point land. I also noticed that even when Jermaine did get the ball, he'd quickly make his move and shoot the ball instead of waiting for the double-team and causing the rest of the offense to stop.

                        Our defense even showed up late in the 4th quarter, but obviously that was too late. I hope they continue working on the defense, and keep the offensive scheme they played last night. The offense was 100% unpredictable, it was effective, there was good rhythm, and it was also fun to watch. But yeah, lets get that defense going...

                        Tonight vs. the Jazz we're really going to need our defense to step it up. Jerry Sloan's teams always seem to put on a basketball clinic featuring layup drills. If our defense shows, I think we can win.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                          Originally posted by MagicRat View Post
                          Some of the young whippersnappers who think this season is bad need to check these out....

                          http://www.basketballreference.com/t...D&yr=1982&lg=n
                          http://www.basketballreference.com/t...D&yr=1984&lg=n
                          Thanks MR.

                          1983 season, Yes ending the season 9-52 is incredible. After January 1st the Pacers had losing streaks of 6, then 5, then 12, then 5, then 7.

                          Pacers never won more than 2 straight and they only did that twice. Once in November and once in December. That was it. So in those losing streaks I referrenced above at no time were they separated by anything more than a "1 game winning streak"

                          Wow that is worse than even I remember

                          ___________

                          OK, now for the 1985 season.

                          Well ending the season 3-21, was very unpleasant. Pacers actually had a 3 game winning streak at the end of December. That must have been when I was guaranteeing the playoffs and thinking we had finally "turned the corner. Wayman was going to lead us to the promise land.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                            Originally posted by Bball View Post
                            That's a pretty good line.

                            It's sucks that leaving Tinsley wide open is smart defense.

                            -Bball
                            THAT, and the matador defense is why he simply can't play anymore.(as a starter)
                            I watched him specifically on 2 series in a row and in both he was trailing his man by FIVE feet as the man ran around a pick. Uncontested layup on one, dish to Jermaines man as Jermaine came to help on the other.
                            Gotta stop.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                              Originally posted by Ev_eezy View Post
                              Yeah so we lost, BUT...

                              I think we made progress. I'll give props to Carlisle for making some nice adjustments to the offense to help us get easier baskets, I like the fact that he threw Orien Greene in the mix with a point guard to give us a defensive presence, and I'll even give Carlisle credit for keeping this team focused last night.

                              A couple of people mentioned that Granger is still in his slump, and I'm going to disagree. Ok, yes from three-point land he's not knocking them down, but twice last night I saw him split a double team -- once for a dish to Ike for a layup + free throw, and the other time he split it for a nice layup. He had a couple of other aggressive baskets as well. I'll take him attacking the basket [I wish he'd try to draw more fouls] any day over him wasting his talent camping out beyond the three-point line.

                              I liked Dunleavy's aggressiveness, I liked Murphy's aggressiveness, and I liked the fact that Jermaine did his thing without dominating the ball. I think what lost us the game tonight was Tinsley's slow feet on Bibby. In the 4th quarter Bibby knocked down a series of jumpers off a few screens -- screens which Tinsley was extremely slow at recovering from.

                              Back to Carlisle though. I've said a lot of negative about him even though I don't dislike him at all, I've felt he's not the right coach for this team. It'll take a lot more than one game to convince me that he's the right guy, but last night he made some changes I thought he'd be too stubborn to make.

                              The biggest thing he did was he made Jermaine's game blend in with the rest of the offense instead of Jermaine dominating the offense. In addition to that, there was non-stop ball movement all-night-long. It didn't even look like we were the same team we've been offensively all season. Sure, it was against the Kings, but we all know we're known for making other teams' defense look good. We actually shot a good percentage from the field even though we were 1-16 from three-point land. I also noticed that even when Jermaine did get the ball, he'd quickly make his move and shoot the ball instead of waiting for the double-team and causing the rest of the offense to stop.

                              Our defense even showed up late in the 4th quarter, but obviously that was too late. I hope they continue working on the defense, and keep the offensive scheme they played last night. The offense was 100% unpredictable, it was effective, there was good rhythm, and it was also fun to watch. But yeah, lets get that defense going...

                              Tonight vs. the Jazz we're really going to need our defense to step it up. Jerry Sloan's teams always seem to put on a basketball clinic featuring layup drills. If our defense shows, I think we can win.
                              Dannys shooting is MESSED up. His form is terrible, he's throwing the ball at the basket on 3's. no chance. Shot an air ball on an uncontested 3!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Post game thread - Kings vs Pacers - well that was much better

                                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                                There may not be any moral victories in the NBA - but at least we saw the effort tonight, at least we saw a little desire, a little aggression, a little heart, a little energy.

                                The second half was fun to watch and great to see - and it just shows what a little hustle can do for a team

                                3 players I want to focus on. Green, Murphy and Dunleavy

                                1) Murphy - finally a little aggression - and he took the ball to the basket (we have to remember horrible defenders were guarding him, mostly Brad Miller or Corliss) - but it was still great to see him driving the ball. I didn't know he could do that

                                2) Green - good coaching decision to have him on the floor a lot tonight with a point guard. Green did what he does, defend, create havoc, cause turnovers and just make things happen

                                3) Dunleavy - I don't care about his contract, I don't care than it seems like Pacers fans are turning on him. I really like his game he's the second best passer on the team, he's completely unselfish and generally makes the "right play"


                                Turnovers in the first half and rebounding in the second half were the undoing.

                                But I can't complain about the effort
                                I agree. I've said some of my thoughts in other threads, but I guess game specific stuff belongs here most of all.

                                1) Greene - great on defense, really impressive and I liked that Rick went that way (not like he's got tons of choices). HOWEVER, Greene on offense is a disaster waiting to happen. By PG standards he's a terrible ball handler and can't be trusted to run the show.

                                So you can use him as long as you don't remove offense from the other positions. Rick did that at least once and quickly saw it wasn't working (and subbed). He had Greene, Foster and DA out there and it was just too many offensive breakpoints to keep SAC honest and keep the offense flowing.

                                4 on 5 you can make work, 2 on 5 isn't going to score a lot of points.



                                2) Dunleavy - inside the arc he's been money. Not just good, but great. He runs the transition better than anyone on the team, which is specifically why I bumped my "no more running" thread to give him credit. I like when I see running with Dun and Murph on the floor.

                                They aren't good on defense (Troy is awful in fact), but they can create and convert breaks far better than anyone could on this team back in DEC.

                                I think Dun is still lost in the system. He is making wrong cuts or bad spacing choices at times, and I think he's a step behind on some plays. I noticed the first play of the LAC game that he left the FT line flash just as Jeff was passing it too him and that Jeff was clearly frustrated by Dun's choice. To me that looked like Dun just didn't know exactly what the play was trying to accomplish.

                                At another point he brought the double to JO by setting up in the same corner as JO's post when JO was pushed off the block already (meaning closer to the corner than normal). This is a TEAM play because Jeff did the same thing last night but went baseline off a JO pass behind the double (for that pretty layup). I just think Dun didn't read it right when he tried to do it because he's not comfortable with it yet.

                                Look, its one thing to run from point A to point B, it's another to truly know why and to know what is going to come from that. I don't think Dun has reached that understanding, and that doesn't surprise me anyway given the timing of the trade. I assume Murph is in the same boat.

                                Dun can produce for the Pacers, but it's going to take time and it's going to take some overall team adjustment.


                                3) Murph has been aggressive the last few games going off the dribble. I really like that. What I don't like is his rebounding compared to Jeff's. Jeff is a MUCH better defender and rebounder, and if Murph isn't making outside jumpers (0-4 from 3 the last 3 games) this isn't even a decision anymore (between him and Jeff).


                                4) There are 2 players I want to see getting 40 minutes a night - JO and Jeff. Everyone else I don't trust right now.


                                5) Army is on fumes. Love his energy, not sure his body is so fond of it though. He is really struggling out there, especially on offense. Quite a change from the scoring threat he was to start the season. Now he looks a lot more like a guy at the end of his career (inspite of his never-ending energy level). He can't do things on the court that he used to. I prefer Greene seeing more time than him, which Rick did last night.

                                Freaking 0-8 from 3 in March, 2-13 overall.


                                6) With Tins, Dun, Granger, Murph and DA all shooting poorly (and Shawne too) you have a team effort from 3 in March of 10-49 (20.4%!!!!). You think that affects how hard teams double JO. I do.

                                At least Dun has really shifted his focus to inside the arc.


                                7) Energy and Desire - I don't see this as the problem at all. I see confidence and understanding as the problem. There is a lot of wheel spinning and counter-productive effort going on out there.

                                When you see a long outlet to Dun who throws that ahead to Danny for the dunk, that was all effort. The key is on those plays they knew what they were trying to do and were coordinated in their effort.

                                I don't blame Rick at this point because it's just ridiculous to expect a coach to first massively adjust to the new roster, and then to have to repeat that process when he loses Quis along with anyone able to make a 3pt shot.

                                That forced them to shift the playbook again after just adjusting to the new players a few weeks prior. I don't think this is anywhere near the best that Rick could get this team playing (meaning without Quis and without the 3 ball - put those things back in and the team is instantly better period).

                                If they can stabalize a little I think a strategy better suited to them could be sorted out. Right now I feel like we don't even know what the roster is going to look like from night to night, let alone be able to have some amount of expectations for them (in terms of details of what each of them can do on the court).




                                So when is Rick going to quit?
                                Probably when Bird trades JO and Granger for a #14 pick, Peja and David West. You know, because the team needs a shooter and need to get back in this deep draft. And right now the team's overall talent level is still running a bit too high for Larry's taste.

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