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Thread: Conversation with JO (with audio)

  1. #26
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    JO was right back at game 8, the running stunk and they needed to focus on an offense they could run.

    He's also right now. PHX did double BEFORE he caught the ball, and no one is hitting shots behind him to eliminate that.

    He calls that "offense broken", I'd call it wrong offense for the players they now have, at least if they aren't going to hit the jumpers and punish teams that jump the gun with the hard doubles.

    You put Peja or Ray Allen dropping 3's or going to the lane every time teams doubled JO, you'd see a post-based offense rolling right along.

    The Pacers made a major trade, it didn't really adjust the team in a productive way. It seems to have hurt as much as helped, if that. So you get the results of that.

    When a driver leaves Ferrari for BAR, it ain't the driver that got worse the next season, it's the car. A method is only as good as the tools you use to implement it.

  2. #27
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    I did hear or read somewhere, that Rick calls too many plays. Maybe it was just someone on here, but if you watch the games, you clearly see Carlisle standing up and yelling out plays more often then the opposing coach.

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I would wager that he saves just as many TOs, 3-4, in the same game they lose those layups.

    I don't trust Tinsley to wash my car, let alone give him free reign to run a basketball team.

    I asked earlier last week, and it was ignored, so I'll say it again. Why SHOULD Rick trust him to call the right plays? What evidence has he given that it would be a good idea? Just because you're their starter doesn't mean that should just be expected. He's the starter by default.

    He makes horrible decisions PERIOD, on or off the court, and you want him to have more opportunity to make decisions he thinks is best for the team? That's just asking for "Bad Jamaal" to be out 90% of the time, instead of the 30% of the time, which is still way too much.
    That's it to me. I do NOT like Rick Carlisle calling all of the plays. I also think there's a lot of truth to his social inadequacies playing a role in his problems as a head coach (I'll always remember my conversation with Piston's trainer Arnie Kander and he described Rick as "socially illiterate"). Legitimate concerns. BUT whenever we've had stretches where Rick stopped calling most of the plays, and let the team "just play", we more often than not racked up 20-30 turnovers in a game and played matador defense. He doesn't trust them because they apparently can't handle it.

    We're screwed either way, folks. That's the bottom line with our situation. There's no fix that can be made without many changes.

  4. #29
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
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    If all of this is true, then Jermaine O'Neal may be the worst human being alive.

    Alright, Artest is still worse. But how in the name of God could he possibly be upset with the offense. We play this way to keep him happy,
    You think so? You think this is the way Jermaine wants to play? You think Rick's playing this offense to keep the peace with Jermaine?

    I don't. And this would seem to back up my side of the debate.
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  5. #30
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    You think so? You think this is the way Jermaine wants to play? You think Rick's playing this offense to keep the peace with Jermaine?

    I don't. And this would seem to back up my side of the debate.
    I think we play this way because Rick believes it is the only way to give us our best chance to win yet keep Jermaine happy.

    Maybe another coach would have a better plan but game 8 told me Rick was open to trying something else.

    -Bball
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  6. #31
    High Flyers ThA HoyA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Q: Given all the headaches you've had recently, why are you still doing this? You could be playing golf.


    A: (laughs) Because I'm sick.


    I don't know; it's in my blood. And I'm competitive. I don't know. I played, I coached . . . I didn't want no part of that coaching. But the way I did it, I managed the team and Rick (Carlisle) did the Xs and Os. I loved the defense part of it. I had one of the best (assistants), Dick Harter.

    I couldn't believe the stuff he got out of these guys. But I managed the team and me and Dick did the defense. Every once in a while I'd look at Rick's offense and say, 'You've got too many plays. Keep it simple. And run the stuff we ran in Boston.' We weren't brain surgeons, but we knew how to run the plays.

    It was very interesting to me when I was coaching, how you manage your team. That's very important in this league. This day and age, somebody better be managing your players. And you better touch every one of them every day.


    Why'd I do this? I just think it's in my blood. . . . And the craving for a championship . . . It's the drive that I want to get back there one more time.
    That says it all Bird even questions Ricks massive playbook.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Every team knows exactly what play every other team is running?

    In the playoffs I agree.

    In the regular season its been stated/admitted many times by coaches that in the shoot around/meetings that are held earlier in the day on game nights they stick to broad concerns on defense and don't focus on the multitude of plays. (e.g. "Watch the pick and roll from the elbow with the so and so" "Player X likes to take it left, force him right" "This team runs a lot of back-cuts, keep tight baseline rub-offs")

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    LMAO, Richard Jefferson last year in the playoffs said that after a game you know how the Pacers' play, fans been saying this, and Rick Calls all the plays, I watch the game connected to speakers and all you hear is Rick Callin plays. . .HEY HEY HEY, JAMALL, 3 Down, 3 Down, 4 Up, Let's Go!!

    Rick needs to lay off and open up the offense, Pacers are just boring right now

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    That says it all Bird even questions Ricks massive playbook.

    Yet he admits just a few lines up that he let Rick run the X's and O's part of the team while Larry was the head coach.

    Call me crazy but I believe that team went to finals.

    EDIT: It amazes me that all these teams and players know the Pacers plays, yet our own team talks about how difficult they are to learn and how they often get confused. It's like the opposition knows them better. Is it the players or is it the system?

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    That's it! I am just done listening to people blaming Jermaine! He is the best player in Pacers NBA history and he just gets blamed more than anyone not named Jamaal Tinsley or Rick Carlisle. If he is vocal about things going wrong then people get mad at him. If he isn't vocal, he isn't a leader. I mean, what does the guy have to do?! Back off of him, already! He wants to win more than anything. I'm sure he is more disappointed in himself than any of this board's posters for not being able to push this team to more wins. [/ rant]

    I'm so sorry. I'm not usually a vocal JO supporter like this but the man has been awesome this year and effort, which is the number one thing I want from a player, is never lacking. As always, I do respect people's opinions on JO, however. No matter how different from mine they may be.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    I just finished listening to the audio snippets on poster's site. I feel bad for Jermaine, because he's holding up his end of the deal. He clearly hates losing.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Where's the site? I'd like to hear the quotes.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    the quotes there bear no resemblance to the statements above.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  14. #39
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    That says it all Bird even questions Ricks massive playbook.
    How can you possibly optimize your play when you have too many plays? You need a smaller number of plays and use them more frequently during games and make small adjustments to them....learn how to adjust them based on the opponent.

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
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    That being said, maybe he just can't trust Tinsley. The Suns and Pistons have great point guards, and everyone on Dallas can score. Good teams don't need a lot of in-game coaching. Just like the Pacers of between 98-00.

    The Perfect Storm is upon the Pacers and it does not look like it is going to be
    pretty. We have the worst shooting team in the league with a coach who
    will not trust his players because the players do not show the prerequisite
    smarts plus some injuries and you have a ship waiting to sink.
    Maybe my analogy should be a building that is on fire and is burning to the ground. At least with that analogy we can hope the Pacers can rise phoenix like from the ashes again.
    {o,o}
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Please this team isn't sinking like the Titanic. It is soaring soaring into the sky if anything it is the Hindenburg.

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    What I have on my site is not the full statement from JO. But I'll go ahead and post a link directly to the full audio I do have if it's alright by the admins. Some of the frustrations I mention in my original post are not in the audio clip but there is plenty there for you to get the idea. I hope those that run PD realize that i'm not trying to away members here and if it is truly about sharing team related information, please allow me to post it. Visitors to my site aren't looking for a message board anyway. It is different content that brings readers to my site as compared to what they are looking for when they visit here...

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    High Flyers ThA HoyA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    How can you possibly optimize your play when you have too many plays? You need a smaller number of plays and use them more frequently during games and make small adjustments to them....learn how to adjust them based on the opponent.

    exactly thats what i hate about Rick honestly plays are an important part of the game but having a massive amount doesnt help in a game like football its reasonable to have a lot of plays, u have to rely on your strengths more and also not have too many to be like wtf?

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yet he admits just a few lines up that he let Rick run the X's and O's part of the team while Larry was the head coach.

    Call me crazy but I believe that team went to finals.

    EDIT: It amazes me that all these teams and players know the Pacers plays, yet our own team talks about how difficult they are to learn and how they often get confused. It's like the opposition knows them better. Is it the players or is it the system?

    you are right but that team had veterans and wouldnt need to call every single play. It just reminds me of when i played basketball in highschool if we did something that wasnt called by the coach on the court we would be like oh **** and look over to see if he was upset it just made it uptight, and he and rick are both micromanagers

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
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    What I have on my site is not the full statement from JO. But I'll go ahead and post a link directly to the full audio I do have if it's alright by the admins. Some of the frustrations I mention in my original post are not in the audio clip but there is plenty there for you to get the idea. I hope those that run PD realize that i'm not trying to away members here and if it is truly about sharing team related information, please allow me to post it. Visitors to my site aren't looking for a message board anyway. It is different content that brings readers to my site as compared to what they are looking for when they visit here...
    Feel free

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Thanks Hicks. I've posted it in the first post of the thread. Hope you all find it an interesting listen!

    Nick

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyPacer View Post
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    Please this team isn't sinking like the Titanic. It is soaring soaring into the sky if anything it is the Hindenburg.
    asking TPTB to completely reconstruct this team is an interesting proposition, you can request that it be completely rebuilt but TPTB will call make the ever-so-slight cosmetic changes they want at the pace that they want... its like boxing a glacier.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  23. #48
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yet he admits just a few lines up that he let Rick run the X's and O's part of the team while Larry was the head coach.

    Call me crazy but I believe that team went to finals.

    EDIT: It amazes me that all these teams and players know the Pacers plays, yet our own team talks about how difficult they are to learn and how they often get confused. It's like the opposition knows them better. Is it the players or is it the system?
    Good point.

    Maybe trade for all those guys beating the Pacers to spots and reading passes, the team needs some guys with better awareness.


    you are right but that team had veterans and wouldnt need to call every single play.
    But that is the team that had a massive playbook and did run a huge variety of sets, even adding variations during the season as the players got good with the original stuff and opponents started reading them. Even if Jax called them too it was only because he was capable of doing so. They still used Rick's deep offensive book as a basis for what was being done.

    This team isn't good enough to make those types of adjustments because they are still getting up to speed with what they've got.

    This is one of the main things I meant when I complained about the distraction of a massive mid-season trade. When in the hell are 4 new players, plus bench guys thrust into new roles all supposed to be learning the playbook to the point that it's instinctive?

    See that's one thing you had with Jackson, he knew the system. That's why you would see he and Foster guiding the other guys on floor spacing (Danny especially). It takes time, and TPTB bailed really early.

    Think about the last 3 seasons. By Nov 19th, HUGE overhaul of the starters, one out for the year.

    Then another huge overhaul featuring the Ron benching, then Ron for Peja swap, then huge changes due to Tins and JO injury.

    Then this year you follow that up by first moving a big chunk of the bench in the summer, then 2/5th of your starters 2 months in.

    Let me ask this, just when does Bird plan to let the team go an entire season with effectively the same group of players? I mean if we are talking about what the 2000 team did different, maybe let's start with the starting 5 playing the first 50-60 games straight together.

    You think something like that might help a team flow and play together? I do. And it's not like they weren't already used to each other from AT LEAST the previous 2 seasons (most of them for 5-6 together as a unit).

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    You think so? You think this is the way Jermaine wants to play? You think Rick's playing this offense to keep the peace with Jermaine?

    I don't. And this would seem to back up my side of the debate.
    I don't think RC is thrilled with it either though. I think this is a "trying to make this mess limp along enough to survive" strategy from RC. I don't think JO has a magic answer, he's just frustrated. Of course he's not going to like plays when they are being executed like crap.

    My point doesn't blame JO or Rick, both are people trying to make the best of a tough situation.

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