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    Default Conversation with JO (with audio)

    Hey guys, been a while since i've checked in but I wanted to share a little info...

    I sat down with Jermaine for about 15 minutes following the Clippers loss and we talked about where the heart of this problem is coming from. The issue Jermaine has right now is he hates the offense. Ok maybe hate is a strong word but it's broken. He feels teams have figured it out... That the coaches will call out a play and the opposing bench will call out exactly what is coming. Teams have been sending double teams as soon as Jermaine touches the ball in the post. It used to be they would wait until he started to make his move, and now they won't even let him do that. They are daring us to shoot and no one is hitting their shots. He said he has been trying to step out of the post and shoot but if he misses, we have no rebounders so our possessions are typically one-and-done.

    It seems to me that our leader does not believe in our offense right now, which I think is saying something considering the offense is supposed to be built for him.

    Also of note, I spoke with Donnie after the Clippers game and he said he's never been one to put a lot of stock in a single game but he was clearly concerned with the current slide. After the game he said it was one of those games where it makes you look at your coaches and players and everyone involved and ask "what the (bleep) is going on?"

    He also said the team is already gearing up for the draft and my impression was that they are going to trade for a first round pick.

    Edit: Here is most of the post-game with Jermaine. It's about 8 minutes long so give the file some time to load. Enjoy! http://www.absolutepacers.com/audio/JO.WAV

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    If all of this is true, then Jermaine O'Neal may be the worst human being alive.

    Alright, Artest is still worse. But how in the name of God could he possibly be upset with the offense. We play this way to keep him happy, and the reason we have no rebounders is because of the way we play.

    JO down in the post, everyone bolted to the floor behind the 3pt line.
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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
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    If all of this is true, then Jermaine O'Neal may be the worst human being alive.

    Alright, Artest is still worse. But how in the name of God could he possibly be upset with the offense. We play this way to keep him happy,
    You think so? You think this is the way Jermaine wants to play? You think Rick's playing this offense to keep the peace with Jermaine?

    I don't. And this would seem to back up my side of the debate.
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    You think so? You think this is the way Jermaine wants to play? You think Rick's playing this offense to keep the peace with Jermaine?

    I don't. And this would seem to back up my side of the debate.
    I think we play this way because Rick believes it is the only way to give us our best chance to win yet keep Jermaine happy.

    Maybe another coach would have a better plan but game 8 told me Rick was open to trying something else.

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Every team knows exactly what play every other team is running?

    In the playoffs I agree.

    In the regular season its been stated/admitted many times by coaches that in the shoot around/meetings that are held earlier in the day on game nights they stick to broad concerns on defense and don't focus on the multitude of plays. (e.g. "Watch the pick and roll from the elbow with the so and so" "Player X likes to take it left, force him right" "This team runs a lot of back-cuts, keep tight baseline rub-offs")

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Q: Given all the headaches you've had recently, why are you still doing this? You could be playing golf.


    A: (laughs) Because I'm sick.


    I don't know; it's in my blood. And I'm competitive. I don't know. I played, I coached . . . I didn't want no part of that coaching. But the way I did it, I managed the team and Rick (Carlisle) did the Xs and Os. I loved the defense part of it. I had one of the best (assistants), Dick Harter.

    I couldn't believe the stuff he got out of these guys. But I managed the team and me and Dick did the defense. Every once in a while I'd look at Rick's offense and say, 'You've got too many plays. Keep it simple. And run the stuff we ran in Boston.' We weren't brain surgeons, but we knew how to run the plays.

    It was very interesting to me when I was coaching, how you manage your team. That's very important in this league. This day and age, somebody better be managing your players. And you better touch every one of them every day.


    Why'd I do this? I just think it's in my blood. . . . And the craving for a championship . . . It's the drive that I want to get back there one more time.
    That says it all Bird even questions Ricks massive playbook.

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    That says it all Bird even questions Ricks massive playbook.

    Yet he admits just a few lines up that he let Rick run the X's and O's part of the team while Larry was the head coach.

    Call me crazy but I believe that team went to finals.

    EDIT: It amazes me that all these teams and players know the Pacers plays, yet our own team talks about how difficult they are to learn and how they often get confused. It's like the opposition knows them better. Is it the players or is it the system?

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    High Flyers ThA HoyA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yet he admits just a few lines up that he let Rick run the X's and O's part of the team while Larry was the head coach.

    Call me crazy but I believe that team went to finals.

    EDIT: It amazes me that all these teams and players know the Pacers plays, yet our own team talks about how difficult they are to learn and how they often get confused. It's like the opposition knows them better. Is it the players or is it the system?

    you are right but that team had veterans and wouldnt need to call every single play. It just reminds me of when i played basketball in highschool if we did something that wasnt called by the coach on the court we would be like oh **** and look over to see if he was upset it just made it uptight, and he and rick are both micromanagers

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yet he admits just a few lines up that he let Rick run the X's and O's part of the team while Larry was the head coach.

    Call me crazy but I believe that team went to finals.

    EDIT: It amazes me that all these teams and players know the Pacers plays, yet our own team talks about how difficult they are to learn and how they often get confused. It's like the opposition knows them better. Is it the players or is it the system?
    Good point.

    Maybe trade for all those guys beating the Pacers to spots and reading passes, the team needs some guys with better awareness.


    you are right but that team had veterans and wouldnt need to call every single play.
    But that is the team that had a massive playbook and did run a huge variety of sets, even adding variations during the season as the players got good with the original stuff and opponents started reading them. Even if Jax called them too it was only because he was capable of doing so. They still used Rick's deep offensive book as a basis for what was being done.

    This team isn't good enough to make those types of adjustments because they are still getting up to speed with what they've got.

    This is one of the main things I meant when I complained about the distraction of a massive mid-season trade. When in the hell are 4 new players, plus bench guys thrust into new roles all supposed to be learning the playbook to the point that it's instinctive?

    See that's one thing you had with Jackson, he knew the system. That's why you would see he and Foster guiding the other guys on floor spacing (Danny especially). It takes time, and TPTB bailed really early.

    Think about the last 3 seasons. By Nov 19th, HUGE overhaul of the starters, one out for the year.

    Then another huge overhaul featuring the Ron benching, then Ron for Peja swap, then huge changes due to Tins and JO injury.

    Then this year you follow that up by first moving a big chunk of the bench in the summer, then 2/5th of your starters 2 months in.

    Let me ask this, just when does Bird plan to let the team go an entire season with effectively the same group of players? I mean if we are talking about what the 2000 team did different, maybe let's start with the starting 5 playing the first 50-60 games straight together.

    You think something like that might help a team flow and play together? I do. And it's not like they weren't already used to each other from AT LEAST the previous 2 seasons (most of them for 5-6 together as a unit).

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    That says it all Bird even questions Ricks massive playbook.
    How can you possibly optimize your play when you have too many plays? You need a smaller number of plays and use them more frequently during games and make small adjustments to them....learn how to adjust them based on the opponent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    How can you possibly optimize your play when you have too many plays? You need a smaller number of plays and use them more frequently during games and make small adjustments to them....learn how to adjust them based on the opponent.

    exactly thats what i hate about Rick honestly plays are an important part of the game but having a massive amount doesnt help in a game like football its reasonable to have a lot of plays, u have to rely on your strengths more and also not have too many to be like wtf?

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    You think so? You think this is the way Jermaine wants to play? You think Rick's playing this offense to keep the peace with Jermaine?

    I don't. And this would seem to back up my side of the debate.
    I don't think RC is thrilled with it either though. I think this is a "trying to make this mess limp along enough to survive" strategy from RC. I don't think JO has a magic answer, he's just frustrated. Of course he's not going to like plays when they are being executed like crap.

    My point doesn't blame JO or Rick, both are people trying to make the best of a tough situation.

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    I knew someone would say that about JO.

    But the strange thing is the Pacers get more offensive rebounds per game than any team in the NBA - of course part of that is because they shoot so poorly. I think percentage wise the Pacers are 4th in the league in offensive rebounds. This is in sharp contrast to Rick's 5 previous years as head coach when his teams were always poor offensive rebounding teams. Of course there is a flip side to this. That might explain why the Pacers transition defense is putrid IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I knew someone would say that about JO.

    But the strange thing is the Pacers get more offensive rebounds per game than any team in the NBA - of course part of that is because they shoot so poorly. I think percentage wise the Pacers are 4th in the league in offensive rebounds. This is in sharp contrast to Rick's 5 previous years as head coach when his teams were always poor offensive rebounding teams. Of course there is a flip side to this. That might explain why the Pacers transition defense is putrid IMO
    Well then conversly that must mean JO doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the rebounding.
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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    DD, sorry but without a verbatim, this is exactly what he said in the post press conf. Opponents have figured it all out, every play called is answered before it is ran, something I said 2 weeks ago when it became very clear.

    As your father noted in another thread, RC calls every play even after a rebound given half the chance, add to that the outside players not being able to hit the broadside of a barn from 3 feet and you have the outcome you are looking at.

    Once more: I am sure JO would never say that (hating the offense), but he said something of that nature (without "hating" the offense, but that it has been figured out completely) in the post game press conference.
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    able, every team knows every opponents play calls, they know what play they are going to run. There are no secrets. The key question is whether the other teams can stop the plays. And with the new defensive rules, dribble penetration is so important and stopping dribble penetration is even more important. Rick has one of the thickest playbooks in the NBA.

    I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I like Rick calling the plays (how in the world that became taboo, I'll never know or understand) most of the best coaches in the NBA call almost all the plays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    able, every team knows every opponents play calls, they know what play they are going to run. There are no secrets. The key question is whether the other teams can stop the plays. And with the new defensive rules, dribble penetration is so important and stopping dribble penetration is even more important. Rick has one of the thickest playbooks in the NBA.

    I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I like Rick calling the plays (how in the world that became taboo, I'll never know or understand) most of the best coaches in the NBA call almost all the plays.
    UB, how come we don't see it with the Mavs, or Suns Or Pistons?

    How come those PG's go out with a choice/read/react hand?

    I see no other coach in the NBA calling out every play all the time, except Rick.

    That stands aside the fact that it is clear that the bad-shooting brings it all to a halt, JO can kick the ball out as much as he wants, if it only ends in missed shots, it's still worthless.
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    UB, how come we don't see it with the Mavs, or Suns Or Pistons?

    How come those PG's go out with a choice/read/react hand?

    I see no other coach in the NBA calling out every play all the time, except Rick.

    That stands aside the fact that it is clear that the bad-shooting brings it all to a halt, JO can kick the ball out as much as he wants, if it only ends in missed shots, it's still worthless.

    Well I'm with you here Able. Carlisle does call too many plays in my opinion. And I know there are subtle differences, but most involve an isolation play by someone.

    UB, this is bad only because I believe Rick has no ability to measure momentum. If were start rolling, we don't need to slow it down, get the play, and then execute.

    Tinsley knows the plays, let him make the decision in transition and we can attack that much faster.

    That being said, maybe he just can't trust Tinsley. The Suns and Pistons have great point guards, and everyone on Dallas can score. Good teams don't need a lot of in-game coaching. Just like the Pacers of between 98-00.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
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    That being said, maybe he just can't trust Tinsley. The Suns and Pistons have great point guards, and everyone on Dallas can score. Good teams don't need a lot of in-game coaching. Just like the Pacers of between 98-00.

    The Perfect Storm is upon the Pacers and it does not look like it is going to be
    pretty. We have the worst shooting team in the league with a coach who
    will not trust his players because the players do not show the prerequisite
    smarts plus some injuries and you have a ship waiting to sink.
    Maybe my analogy should be a building that is on fire and is burning to the ground. At least with that analogy we can hope the Pacers can rise phoenix like from the ashes again.
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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Please this team isn't sinking like the Titanic. It is soaring soaring into the sky if anything it is the Hindenburg.

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    UB, how come we don't see it with the Mavs, or Suns Or Pistons?

    How come those PG's go out with a choice/read/react hand?

    I see no other coach in the NBA calling out every play all the time, except Rick.

    That stands aside the fact that it is clear that the bad-shooting brings it all to a halt, JO can kick the ball out as much as he wants, if it only ends in missed shots, it's still worthless.

    No we don't see it with the Suns at all, the Pistons not very often and the Mavs not very often.

    But we do with the Heat, the Rockets, the Jazz (Sloan always called the plays even during Stockton's time as the point guard) The Spurs not nearly as much as we used to, but Pop still calls his fair share.

    Until I see Rick stopping fastbreaks to get his play call in, I have no problem with him calling the plays. I don't trust Tinsley anyway.


    Rick doesn't call every play - simply isn't true


    I do have a question though: so many people say that Rick calls too many plays and it is bad that he does. I feel it is one of those things where it has been said enough, almost everyone believes it it is bad. Please someone explain to me why it is bad.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Rick doesn't call every play - simply isn't true


    I do have a question though: so many people say that Rick calls too many plays and it is bad that he does. I feel it is one of those things where it has been said enough, almost everyone believes it it is bad. Please someone explain to me why it is bad.
    Except for the occasional "fast break" in which some players hesitate looking at the bench to see if it is "ok" to "run", Rick DOES call every play (see Peck's post).

    Now, why is it bad?
    Imagine you are a mechanic, workin on whatever every day, paid because you are good at it or at least supposed to be adequate.
    Now imagine that the mechanic is bend over an engine and has to wait for his boss to call out what tool to use, what part to do when etc.

    Do you really think the engine gets fixed better? faster?

    Do you think the mechanic will love his job? have faith in his own abilities?
    Do you think his collegues trust him with a job?

    That's why it is VERY bad, not just BAD.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Please someone explain to me why it is bad.
    Because it doesn't work.

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    Default Re: Conversation with JO

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I like Rick calling the plays (how in the world that became taboo, I'll never know or understand) most of the best coaches in the NBA call almost all the plays.


    Not true and you know it. It is well documented that the Rick calls more plays than ANY OTHER COACH.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    Not true and you know it. It is well documented that the Rick calls more plays than ANY OTHER COACH.
    You forgot half a sentence there!

    (more plays) in the first quarter (than...COACH) in the whole game!
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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