Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Blow it up....

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    740

    Default Blow it up....

    I know we are stuck for the rest of the season, but it is time to finish it and start all over. We have many very good young pieces in place. Its time to rebuild around them. We need to move JO and package Tins with him. Get the last of the old blood out of here.

    The the dark cloud this team plays under will never go away until JO and Tinsley are gone. We have 10 guys on the roster that this is their first year as a Pacer. Did you guys realize that? 10 players in their first year in a Pacer uniform. Granger in his second year, Harrison his third. Thats 12 of 15 that have been here less than 3 years. Finish it. Get rid of the last of the old blood.

    Package JO and Tins and start developing and building around these kids we got. It cant be any worse. This team just has issues. And they are not going away. And I aint talking about off the court issues. This team just doesnt consistently BRING IT every night. And it hasnt since the brawl.

    And as much as it pains me to say it, Rick needs to go to. I think Rick is a great coach, but this team needs a complete change. The last of the old blood needs to be gone. All of it. Then maybe this dark cloud will move on as well.

  2. #2
    Member denyfizle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nap Town
    Posts
    1,409
    Mood

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    Well you said it yourself, it's not the personnel that's really the problem. Fire Carlisle. It doesn't matter who we get unless I guess it's LbJ or Jordan (even at that I have my fears that RC might find a way to restrict their game) RC has to go. I'd like to keep JO and see him under a different system. Tinsley and DunDun are expendable. We all know about DunDun's shooting struggles but most of all the dude is soft. He gets pushed around by guys like Sam Cassell. If we can get a PG that can shoot and defend, and the new coach develops Ike and DH into banging Dale Davis post guys then we can still make something out of what we have. Carlisle is a big reason why most of our players perform as poor as they have been. He claims he puts players in a position to succeed, but he frustrates almost every single one of them in the process and put them in situations they are not comfortable with. At some point you got to question the man's megalomaniacal stance. He will not bend nor adjust to cater to his players even if it means a disgruntled locker room.

  3. #3
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    7,006

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    I've had this same feeling at times about just start fresh. Eliminate all ties with the brawl era guys, including RC. It's tough though b/c JO's played hard and played well for the most part. Definitely our best player and our best comodity. It's got its attractive points. Since nothing's going down until the summer anyway, I'm kind of reserving final judgment. Another 1st round exit or worse and I'll start weighing the option more seriously.

    On a related note, I wish we could just ship out Murph and Dun just like we shipped em in. Now we have them and Tins. What would we have to add in to get rid of any one ? Frightening thought. And with the two GS guys, even though I don't think that highly of their games-very mediocre IMO, I could get beyond that if I got the impression they brought energy, toughness, a little something extra. But the only sense I get is sleepwalking or deer in the headlights. The same sense I got watching them play in GS.

  4. #4
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,820

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    Quote Originally Posted by naptown View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    Package JO and Tins and start developing and building around these kids we got. It cant be any worse. This team just has issues. And they are not going away. And I aint talking about off the court issues. This team just doesnt consistently BRING IT every night. And it hasnt since the brawl.

    I'm not really sure what you mean, "it can't get any worse". But as far as fielding a competitive team - believe me it can get a whole lot worse. Ask fans in Atlanta, Charlotte, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Golden State, Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, and Memphis. You could also ask fans in cities like Chicago, Washington, Clippers fans, Minneapolis, Orlando, Cleveland, Toronto, New jersey - ask those fans how fun it is to re-build and ask them how long it takes to get back.

  5. #5
    streets ahead
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    DC
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,754

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    im not sure what "blowing this team up" truly means. usually that phrase goes along with the Florida Marlins when they have a fire sale and trade expensive players for near nothing just to eliminate payroll.

    i think we need to start a true rebuilding process and that begins with trading JO. im not a 'hater' or even a 'disliker' but i think that this team has gone as far as it can with JO as the leader. he just doesn't fit that role for this team. which is fine, i can't fault him for that. some players just were never meant to be in that role and i don't think JO is really comfortable doing that. so without a true leader we've got a team of a few role players and then just spare parts. and that doesn't lead to long-term, even short term success. i also think JO would be anxious to go somewhere else. and in the right situation he may be able to earn his massive contract but i dont think he can when he's in a place where he is the face and the voice of the team.

    i believe what needs to be blown up is the asst. coaching staff. bring back dick harter or another defensive mind, bring in a true big man coach; who that is exactly im not sure (my ideas have included hakeem [not sure he's actually interested in coaching but he's helped emecka okafor], popeye jones [has been working with the dallas big men]). and then the final piece to that coaching puzzle whatever that would be. but i believe with all of our young players we desperately need a coach to teach defense and to develop our bigs. that is going to be essential for the long term success of this team.
    This is the darkest timeline.

  6. #6
    Hall of Famers FrenchConnection's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,664
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not really sure what you mean, "it can't get any worse". But as far as fielding a competitive team - believe me it can get a whole lot worse. Ask fans in Atlanta, Charlotte, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Golden State, Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, and Memphis. You could also ask fans in cities like Chicago, Washington, Clippers fans, Minneapolis, Orlando, Cleveland, Toronto, New jersey - ask those fans how fun it is to re-build and ask them how long it takes to get back.
    Yeah, people think that rebuilding is a one-shot process. In almost every case, teams have to have a few iterations before the rebuilding process begins to even be moderately successful. For example, Chicago went through two sets of young players until they fell into on the current group. Remember how every year they would amass whole bunches of cap space and then not be able to attract free agents? If we tried the same path, we would have an even harder time getting free agents (small, cold markets are not magnets for NBA players). I don't see a way out, but a complete rebuild without free-agent signings would take 5-7 seasons at least, by which time the Oklahoma City Pacers would be a first-round playoff team.

  7. #7
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,628

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not really sure what you mean, "it can't get any worse". But as far as fielding a competitive team - believe me it can get a whole lot worse. Ask fans in Atlanta, Charlotte, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Golden State, Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, and Memphis. You could also ask fans in cities like Chicago, Washington, Clippers fans, Minneapolis, Orlando, Cleveland, Toronto, New jersey - ask those fans how fun it is to re-build and ask them how long it takes to get back.
    And while we are busy removing "all ties" to the brawl, let's change the team name, colors, remove Detroit trips from the schedule, get rid of Bird/Walsh/the Simons, take down Reggie's jersey number so I don't have to picture him holding Ron down on the scorer's table, and eliminate all beer sales at games.

    Oh, and move the team back to the Fairgrounds.

    And let's not forget to remove all dustpans from around the arena.


    Get rid of JO but keep Dun, Murph, Greene, Baston, Rawle, etc? Um, I would like to see the team get back to a state where they are competitive, and that USUALLY starts with an AS/DPOY/MVP caliber player on the team.


    Yeah, people think that rebuilding is a one-shot process. In almost every case, teams have to have a few iterations before the rebuilding process begins to even be moderately successful.
    And at some point I even question if it's the same process anymore. I mean isn't THIS the rebuild still from 2000? At what point does the NEW process start?

    IMO Chicago FAILED to rebuild using the blow-up/cap space route the first time out. Then they kept trying to rebuild over and over. They got better with a good draft, but then bailed on some of that talent with a big trade, followed by chasing down a top FA for big money (which worked this time around).

    That's NOT part of the same plan from 1999. Heck, I don't even see it as the same plan as 2004 for them. They had to give up on some approaches and roster situations, not just "tweek" them.


    So it DID NOT WORK for them. A couple of times. Their improvement last year and this year WAS NOT a natural progression of things. Lots of teams get to where they were and stay there.

  8. #8
    Tyrant maragin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,216

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    There should just be one "blow it up thread" that RoboHicks bumps after every loss, so melodramatic people can chime in on it.

    That's not to say that there aren't sensible people that want changes in the team, but in my opinion: Ground zero is an terribly low point to start from.

  9. #9
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,628

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    My house is dirty and we need new carpet. Time to BLOW IT UP baby!

    Car's out of gas too, you know what that means...

  10. #10
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    7,006

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And while we are busy removing "all ties" to the brawl, let's change the team name, colors, remove Detroit trips from the schedule, get rid of Bird/Walsh/the Simons, take down Reggie's jersey number so I don't have to picture him holding Ron down on the scorer's table, and eliminate all beer sales at games.

    Oh, and move the team back to the Fairgrounds.

    And let's not forget to remove all dustpans from around the arena.

    OK, Seth. The dust bin part is hilarious. On the other hand, you know the rest is not what anybody is suggesting.

  11. #11
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,394

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    Sorry JO. It's time now.

    Attachment 478
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 07-02-2007 at 10:22 PM.

  12. #12
    Member Moses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    3,565

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    I don't want to get rid of JO, but I certainly want to get rid of Carlisle. He wore out his welcome 2 years ago.

  13. #13
    Member Mr.ThunderMakeR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    1,094

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    I thought this was going to be another really bad thread but thanks to Seath and BlueNGold its actually been quite entertaining.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    740

    Default Re: Blow it up....

    Not surprising for this board, that ridiculing people for their opinions is what most of you find entertaining.

    Now back to my original point. This team is a joke. You cant even call it a team. No one is on the same page, no one acts like they care. Tinsley, Oneal and Rick are the root of the problems. Tins and JO are supposed to be the leaders. They are far from anything resembling a leader and Rick has just plain lost this team. Get rid of those three and lets start building around the other guys on this team.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •