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Thread: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

  1. #26
    Member ilive4sports's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    I think Jermaine cares. Nothing suggests to me that this guy will bail on this team until they bail on him. He is loyal as hell. He gives his all cause thats what he knows how to do. Its not his personality type to ask out.
    I think he meant that why should Jermaine care. No doubt the guys gives it his all every night, but he has to question why. I really didnt see any guy out there besides him that cared. DA just got angry. That was it. He didnt care, he showed emotion. Tinsley wasnt horrible but he was Tinsely. Im not blaming him for the loss by any means but we need more especially on the defensive end. Granger was well i have no idea what was going on with him tonight. Dunleavy was playing so well and then got benched. Why? Really Rick what were you thinking? We really need a new coach. Tonight has clearly shown me that. RC does not get through to the players at all. I hope JO rips into these guys bad tonight.

  2. #27
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Quote Originally Posted by Dat Dude View Post
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    BBall you better not be lying to me? If this is true. You are my best friend from now on.
    I'm not lying to you at all. I really felt bad for him and still do.

    I think part of it is that he now knows help isn't coming... the trade deadline has passed... and he just isn't getting much help with what we have. Actually, we all know that now. So WYSIWYG with the team. We're heading into a stretch where we could overachieve and still not do very well record-wise.

    -Bball
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  3. #28

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    NONONO you see that all wrong! Tinsley lost us this game, only he's evil on this team, and he lost it for us! (/sarcasm)


    Yeah afaic this is the 2nd game in a row we get badly outcoached.
    we have by far the worst coach in the NBA and probably NBDL. Muss has no clue and he has certainly never outcoached anyone intentionally. We are 24-31 right now which is about right considering the talent the we have and coach that we don't have. I wouldn't be shocked if Philly kills us tomorrow night. It was just a great night / awful night kinda thing and we had our share of those this season.
    Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores!

  4. #29
    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    WYSIWYG?

  5. #30

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    You know what is so frustrating about this team....we know they can play better. We have seen games where we thought this team could contend, but then they have a stretch of 2-3 games where they play like ****, play good again, then play like **** again. It's like they don't bring it every night. That's the thing with Reggie that everyone loved so much, you knew what he was going to bring to the table everynight. It's like this team takes games off, then shows up for other games. I'd like to see their record on Friday-Saturday games compared to Sunday-Thursday games.
    Sorry, I didn't know advertising was illegal here. Someone call the cops!

  6. #31

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    WYSIWIG: What you see is what you get.

  7. #32
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    I think the team got spooked when they saw Skaut move down to the club level during halftime......
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  8. #33

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    I saw so many problems on offense that I'm not even going to touch on the defense, which spoke for itsself.

    Here's my impressions (in no order of significance):

    - Armstrong's offense sucks. He can't dribble very well, so he passes at the same points every time up the court. Thus we have people who can't pass turning the ball over. He also can't shoot. With him in the game the Pacers had noone who could create a shot.

    - When Dunleavy is your "slasher" you know your team needs a talent upgrade.

    - Marshall is afraid to shoot. Why is Marshall afraid to shoot? I don't know. I like his build and he tries on defense. But on offense he's soft. Which is how I'd describe the entire team outside of O'Neal and Tinsley (and occasionally Murphy) when it comes to offense: SOFT!

    - The team played with no heart. I would have benched Granger for attempting that lacksidaisical layup on a fast break. He's lucky it was goaltended, as the defender should have sent it 10 rows deep.

    - Shawne Williams isn't allowed to shoot. This is not the same as Marshall. Marshall gets the ball, is wide open, then passes and runs as far away from his teammates as possible. Williams is the one guy outside of O'Neal who might be able to cause matchup problems on offense. Too often he's not even looked at on offense. He's smooth, quick, athletic and has a nice shot. Exactly what the team needs. But, like I said, he isn't allowed to shoot.

    -The Pacers did well when they pushed the pace and fell apart when they tried to slow it down to a snail's pace, which is why it's so easy to force a turnover by double-teaming the ballhandler as soon as he comes up the court. Which reminds me, ...

    - When someone is double teamed, at least one of his teammates should be open for an easy shot. This means you protect the ball, pivot, and find him before you make a retarded turnover.

    - The same play is run over and over and over. Tinsley brings the ball up. Dunleavy comes off a screen and recieves the pass. Dunleavy then stops and throws it to Murphy or JO. I like Rick Carlisle, I really do, but it isn't difficult to outcoach anyone when the game plan is that simple.

    On the positive side of things, I thought Dunleavy looked good out there, O'Neal was impressive and Shawne did his thing in limited action.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    To me it looked like the last 2 games, and for a good portion of the season, the effort hasn't been there. I really think the players are tuning out Rick. After the season, he needs to go into the front office, and we need to bring someone new in, and take a look at a rebuilding effort, possibly involving trading JO, if we can get solid value for him.

  10. #35
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    only reason i'm awake right now is so I can hear how Rick tries to talk his way out of this one in the post game quotes on pacers.com and how incredibly ticked JO is if he even comments on anything.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Magic Rat, you don't miss a trick. Do you? The most interesting thing about the second half was Scott and I sneaking by the gate keeper/usher to get into the club level from the balcony.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    I usually just don't post after a blowout. I try not to get too down after a loss, or too up after a big win, and I never agree with the doomsday post that usually follow the loss. This team is frustrating to watch right now. Even in this game they show a lot of promise, if they can get it together. Our best defensive lineup hurts our offense, but I think I'd rather see the defensive lineup get more p.t.
    J.O. played with the effort to win, so he has to be really frustrated. I don't think that means he's gone. LB, or DW aren't going to trade J.O. if they can make him happy by going after the missing pieces in the off season.
    I like a lot of things about Dunleavy, but his defense, and shooting make him a poor fit for the needs of this team. Reggie why did you have to get old.
    If we could upgrade only 1 position, I think I could live with Tinsely in order to go after a 2 guard.
    I like Murphy as well, but man is he a lot slower then Foster. The choice of D versus O.
    Rick, and LB are right in that we've got to stop the big quarter, and the defense is killing us. This team isn't going to improve it's shooting, so in order to compete they've got to step up the defensive intensity, or find the mix of defensive players to make that happen.
    It's a shame that we're not gaining ground when we have the chance. I see the team coming together more as they get the time to gel, but by then the schedule will make it harder for them to gain the ground. This team could still make some noise in the playoffs.

  13. #38
    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Oh we'll make some noise in the playoffs alright. That noise will be the team bus engine starting & departing for Indianapolis after a first round playoff exit.

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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    I feel sorry for JO too. He's had a great year.

    If he has to go, I hope we get the best GUARD possible for him.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    If JO goes it will be a sad, sad day for the Pacers franchise.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  16. #41

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    I'd like to add that I boo'ed from home as the crowd was booing from the arena.

    They got whupped, at home, by a mediocre team minus arguably its best player.

    I'm a fan of his to begin with, but I really wish we had James White running out on fastbreaks instead of Granger and Armstrong. At least Flight can finish a play.

  17. #42
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Ricks Comments

    “The third quarter was our undoing, that’s when they got by us and got to the free throw line. They got to the line 42 times as a team. That’s going to be a losing number most nights. We gave up 23 free throws to one guy and that’s too much. Defensively, it was a struggle all night. Defense is an issue for us right now in a big way. It’s something we have to keep spending time on and emphasizing. To really be a good basketball team, your man to man defense has to be the core of what you’re doing.”

    Really rick the 3rd quarter, the time you decide to put in Darrel Armstrong and Tinsley in the same quarter to start the 3rd quarter? That was the quarter we let get away from us?

    JO didn't comment, either that or it wasn't suitable for print and i'm leaning towards the latter, I think he's due for another JO confrontation with TPTB and Rick.

  18. #43
    Member OnlyPacersLeft's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    Oh without a doubt, I think tonight was the last straw, seeing the look in his eyes.

    Looks up at scoreboard losing to the kings by 20+, looks out on the floor seeing our players still don't care, looks up into the stands empty seats everywhere...time to leave. Nobody cares anymore why should Jermaine?
    ouch...couldn't have said it any better...
    sad really
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

  19. #44
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyPacersLeft View Post
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    ouch...couldn't have said it any better...
    sad really
    It's true, I really haven't been that sad for a single pacer since Reggie Miller had to walk off the court for his last game when the pistons knocked us out.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    yeah it's what it seemed like...JO just doesn't know what to do anymore...the man came out and played hurt and his team was uninspired? if your leader and star playing hurt doesn't give you a spark then what will?
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

  21. #46
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I feel sorry for JO too. He's had a great year.

    If he has to go, I hope we get the best GUARD possible for him.
    I feel bad for him, too.

    If he does leave, and it looks like it's a great posibilty, it's going to be a sad, sad day.
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  22. #47

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Yes, this is really sad and depressing......how far have we sunk! Still glad I saved money by cancelling league pass after watching tonights game...awful!

    JO has returned to form by dominating the defensive glass and commanding strong double teams. Reminds me of our 61 win season (JO's performance only)! It is a shame he's got basically NOTHING around him.

    It was also a shame to see him get screwed tonight by horrible officiating around him...just disgusting the amount of contact he endures without a foul. He should be at the line as much as that "traveling" Martin.

    Bird needs to pull a Riley and come out of the front office and coach this team, but he probably realizes what a ****ed up group he's put together and would rather let Carlisle look the idiot.

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  23. #48

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    The worst part of watching tonight's game?


    Down 15 with 5 minutes to go, and watching nobody play with a sense of urgency. That was the worst thing I've ever seen on an Indiana basketball court.



    The frustrating thing is that we have the talent and some of the pieces to make this work, but we have a group very LOW energy players that don't want to play hard. We'll probably lose one or two more, win a couple, and repeat the cycle for the rest of the season.




    What's saddening is that we are now a more inconsistent team than before the trade, O'Neal is now disgruntled, the players are tuning out the coach, and our defense is worse than it was last year.

  24. #49
    Member Mr.ThunderMakeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    The frustrating thing is that we have the talent and some of the pieces to make this work, but we have a group very LOW energy players that don't want to play hard. We'll probably lose one or two more, win a couple, and repeat the cycle for the rest of the season.
    Im gonna have to disagree with that. We have one all-star surrounded with a bunch of decent roleplayers. To be contenders, you pretty much gotta have 2 star-calibre players, preferably one in the backcourt and one in the front. Danny might develop into an star-calibre player on but that could take awhile and Im still not sure thats gonna happen. As the team is currently constructed, we are an average team talent-wise and that is reflected in the .500 record.

    I agree though that it is frustrating to see the guys go out there and not give the effort. Thats been a trait of our team for a couple seasons now unfortunately. The players just don't believe they can win and I don't know how this problem can be fixed. Maybe if we got that 2nd star player the team would start beleiving in themselves again? I don't know...

  25. #50

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Loss to Kings 2/25/07

    We simply have no guards that can take over a game the way Bibby and Martin did. {Daniels is our 1 guy who has shown the ability but he's become Bender II} Of course it helped that the same guy helped both of them get off. Bibby torched Tinsley in the 1st and Martin got his game rolling by abusing Tinsley in the 3rd. {Although it was a bit unfair of Rick to expect JT to stop the much bigger Martin.}

    Granger is our starting 3. Don't get cute and jerk his role around. Let him start and play his game. He looked terrible out there tonight and never got in the flow. Staying with guys playing out of their roles, why is Shawne Williams playing if he's not even allowed to look at the basket. Does Rick think Shawne is Michael Curry? Finally, we don't ever have to worry about Rawle having the quick trigger during a late night incident. What's he waiting for out there? Shoot the ball when you're wide open.

    Armstrong was initially supposed to be our 3rd PG. He's playing too many minutes. It's one thing when he's the enrgy guy off the bench for a couple of minutes, but all of his flaws show when he's out ther for an extended period of time. McLeod, despite looking awful tonight, should be given a chance as the backup PG for several games. Greene was given a crack at it, why not Keith McLeod?

    This offseason a big guy has to be dealt. {Preferably Foster, who other than JO has the most value} Ike needs to play. Our perimeter play sucks and our offense is way too predictable. Why not put another post scorer in at times to take some pressure off of JO and even help the 2nd unit score some buckets. We are lousy defensively anyway so Ike can't be anymore of a liability than the immovable object, Jamaal Tinsley.

    I've already criticized him a little bit, but the poster child for what is wrong with the Indiana Pacers will continue to be Jamaal Tinsley. How many more lazy passes are you going to throw? When are you going to have some pride and refuse to let your man torch you? We get it, you hate playing for Carlisle and his boring offense. Of course Tinsley fails to realize that playing like horse**** makes him difficult to deal. It's a win-win if he were to play well and allow "Good Jamaal" out of the house for a couple of months. Short term we'd win ballgames and in the summer we can unload our final problem child. {Now if Carlisle is moved upstairs and off the sidelines, I'd be willing to keep Tinsley around and see what he does with a new coach----Mark Jackson?}

    Final Thought: I'm so glad I don't have to watch these bums every night. I listen to every game, but watching this garbage consistently would just kill me. It's in my blood to care about this team, so right now is a very difficult time to be a Pacer fan.

    **Don't trade JO unless the Big Ticket is coming here in return.

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