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Thread: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman View Post
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    I disagree. And, by the way, that charge is a felony. A very serious charge against Tinsley.

    If the facts were that in the heat of the moment of an altercation with you I uttered, "I'm going to kill you"...then after we both calmed down, I walked away without following through with the threat, and without additional physical contact, I'd guarantee I would not be charged with a felony.

    You know why? The crime does not fit the punishment. Additionally, from a practical stand point, the likelihood that a jury would convict me of a felony for that incident is probably 5%, or less. The words were just words that I obviously did not really mean. My walking away peacefully proves that.

    Get my point? The felony charge appears to be crap. The misdemeanor charges may have merit. Wasn't there. I don't know.


    Originally Posted by Elgin56
    If you would make a threatening verbal assault, you would find out quickly that you would be prosecuted for it, so don't give me that his celebrity status is the reason for his troubles.

    Note, I did not indicate in my post, that one would necessarily be convicted of this crime, only that they would be prosecuted for it. I think fans should not rush in and support players who have a propensity to give the Pacer organization black eyes on a regular basis.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Do I really have to repost it?

    That's not even close to what I was talking about, and you very well know it.

    Whether or not he had a broken jaw, or a missing an ear lobe, isn't what's at the center of my comments. Officers just don't make up things and put them in their reports, especially witness statements (the exact things I was talking about).
    my apologies, misread what you had said originally.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Maybe we should start a legal forum or a morality forum to talk about all this stuff. And I do understand why you'd want to talk about the details of all this stuff.

    But I see the bigger issues here being: A) the public perception of the team, B) the effects on attendance/further smearing of the Pacer image, C) the effect this could likely have in front office decisions/player movement, and possibly D) potential locker room issues.

    This is the fallout that will likely have any on-court repercussions...Not the potential conspiracy theories, legal intricacies and moral issues of going to certain places.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Maybe we should start a legal forum or a morality forum to talk about all this stuff. And I do understand why you'd want to talk about the details of all this stuff.

    But I see the bigger issues here being: A) the public perception of the team, B) the effects on attendance/further smearing of the Pacer image, C) the effect this could likely have in front office decisions/player movement, and possibly D) potential locker room issues.

    This is the fallout that will likely have any on-court repercussions...Not the potential conspiracy theories, legal intricacies and moral issues of going to certain places.
    My question is, if JT and Quis were completely innocent, would it even matter at this point?

    I mean, they are supposedly innocent until proven guilty but this obviously has affected the Pacers in every single way you mentioned already.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    I am on Pacer fan who is sick and tired of criminal behavior by a few Pacer players, and more so by Pacer fans who stick their head into the sand and try to rationalize their bad behavior. Pacer fans should expect better and are now demanding it by not attending the games.
    I'm sick of sitting next to PACERS FANS who I can tell are obviously drunk and whom I later see getting in their car to drive home, probably without even being properly arrested for this criminal behavior (it's still a crime even if you aren't caught, right?)

    I refuse to go to games till someone cleans up the stands and gets the drinking under control. What kind of community are the Pacers trying to create. And while we are on the subject, what's with Colts tailgating? Don't tell me that public intox isn't involved with that tradition. Again the scoff-laws run free and the city turns a blind eye to the infractions.

    I'm ready for someone to put their foot down and protect me from all of these people, and the Pacers too. I want to be able to go to Rio and start some s*** without being punched or having to run over someone just to get away.

    (end sarcasm)

    This is what I mean by the moral high horse going on. The Pacers ARE NOT GETTING A FREE PASS. They just haven't been found guilty yet. If they are plenty of people will be bothered by their behavior. Smash is right about one thing for sure, we already saw how this sort of posturing can destroy lives, as in the out of control Duke case.

    Not only were the players hurt by the knee-jerk public reaction, but even the community ran into heated racial debates regarding the charges...all for no good reason, just because people ran with the initial story.


    There have been TWO things, not a long history. People are just quick to dump on Tinsley now because they hated him before for having the disgusting, immoral behavior of being injured too much previously (how dare he).

    And neither of those things has actually been a conviction of Tins or Quis. Jack looks the most likely to see a conviction from Rio, and that's moderate right now.

    It's not a free pass to simply not judge until we have some idea of what REALLY happened, rather than go with gossip. Considering that a free pass is the immoral viewpoint, or at least it goes against society, which created the US legal system and promotes innocence until proven guilty.

    Now I don't even mean the court judgement, though that should be a person's right. I'm willing to fudge and let a person carry their own opinion of how the case should have been judged...but that requires hearing the legal details on the case rather than going totally off of speculation, innuendo and assumption that the tabloids...err, news outlets carry.



    I will call Tins a troublemaker and a problem when he is found guilty of starting trouble. Until then he is innocent, just like I would like to be if I got hauled in for something I didn't do (if his claims of innocence are true).

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    :rollseyes: That's not even close to what I was talking about, and you very well know it.

    He's not a medic, but it is part of his job to report injuries. Notice it didn't say he DID have a broken jaw.
    I understand your point, but this is how bias is thrown in. How does a person GET a broken jaw? So why didn't the officer leave the medical reporting to a pro and simply say that it appeared he had been struck forcefully in the jaw, or better yet verify that the victim claimed he HAD BEEN struck forcefully in the jaw or that witnesses saw it happen. For all we know the guy "looked like he had a broken jaw" when he came to work that day, or from the scuffle with the coat thief.

    Witness claims he had been punched in the jaw by Mr. Tinsley. Blood was coming from his mouth. Etc. No medic required, it's not wrong, it's not opinion.

    Looked like he had a broken jaw...what's that even mean? Instead just write down that stuff, the things you see that make you come to that opinion and let an expert use that evidence to explain what you saw. That's why you don't use opinion/judgement. You can't use that as evidence. DESCRIBE the injury, report what you saw happen (if you got there in time) or what witnesses say they saw happen.

    That's what will have to happen at the trial, he'll have to describe what he meant by "looked like..." because it will be about what happened, not what looked like happened.


    I'm NOT taking a stance that the cops were out to get them, and perhaps that's what you think I'm saying with my responses to you. I'm saying that even responsible people wrap their own opinions into "factual" reporting all the time in a way that seems totally harmless.

    Maybe he's just trying to cut to the chase and summerize what the situation was and figures that's a good short hand for "jaw severely injured". He's not out to get Tins, but by making that statement A LOT OF PEOPLE took it as fact (even though the report didn't say it was). It is a loaded description, especially in light of the victim not actually having a broken jaw.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    Nobody is making excuses, just waiting for all the facts to come in. As far as we know nobody even "acted a fool". These stories are becoming increasingly as inconsistent as a stephen jackson 3-point attempt .

    Look if they're guilty they're guilty but so far alot of things just aren't adding up and the level-headed bunch of us want to at least wait for due process to occurr before we call for anyones heads. Even Darrel Armstrong was accused of beating up a cop when he was in Orlando guess what, case was thrown out of court cause it was all a wash, but everybody is so quick to jump on the I hate Jamal Tinsley bandwagon they'd rather jump to conclusions than wait for the facts.

    I think everyone wants them gone if it's the case, but until then they're "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY".
    I can't speak for Elgin but I think what he is trying to say is that he's tired of the Pacers being in the headlines and becoming a laughing stock of the NBA. It's obvious our fan base is declining. I hear it from people everyday. I've been in Florida for the last 3 weeks or so and when I wear a Pacers hat or shirt, I receive a lot of questions about them.

    When I was in the bay area...same thing. Colts are great but the Pacers...."what's the matter with that team"?

    The Simons have deep pockets but, they can't sustain a decreasing fan base indefinitely. The losses mount up....yes, even with all the TV revenue.

    Right or wrong, innocent or guilty, we have replaced the Portland "JailBlazers". Are we just that unlucky, the stars aligned against us or what? What have we done to deserve this? One of the most successful franchises from 1990.

    It's going to take something major to get this "fan base" turned around. The Simons and TPTB are acutley aware of this. Even winning the 4th seed and going to the second round is not going to be enough to offset this image that has been attached to our team.

    I can understand Elgin's frustration.
    .

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I'm sick of sitting next to PACERS FANS who I can tell are obviously drunk and whom I later see getting in their car to drive home, probably without even being properly arrested for this criminal behavior (it's still a crime even if you aren't caught, right?)

    I refuse to go to games till someone cleans up the stands and gets the drinking under control. What kind of community are the Pacers trying to create. And while we are on the subject, what's with Colts tailgating? Don't tell me that public intox isn't involved with that tradition. Again the scoff-laws run free and the city turns a blind eye to the infractions.

    I'm ready for someone to put their foot down and protect me from all of these people, and the Pacers too. I want to be able to go to Rio and start some s*** without being punched or having to run over someone just to get away.

    (end sarcasm)

    This is what I mean by the moral high horse going on. The Pacers ARE NOT GETTING A FREE PASS. They just haven't been found guilty yet. If they are plenty of people will be bothered by their behavior. Smash is right about one thing for sure, we already saw how this sort of posturing can destroy lives, as in the out of control Duke case.

    Not only were the players hurt by the knee-jerk public reaction, but even the community ran into heated racial debates regarding the charges...all for no good reason, just because people ran with the initial story.


    There have been TWO things, not a long history. People are just quick to dump on Tinsley now because they hated him before for having the disgusting, immoral behavior of being injured too much previously (how dare he).

    And neither of those things has actually been a conviction of Tins or Quis. Jack looks the most likely to see a conviction from Rio, and that's moderate right now.

    It's not a free pass to simply not judge until we have some idea of what REALLY happened, rather than go with gossip. Considering that a free pass is the immoral viewpoint, or at least it goes against society, which created the US legal system and promotes innocence until proven guilty.

    Now I don't even mean the court judgement, though that should be a person's right. I'm willing to fudge and let a person carry their own opinion of how the case should have been judged...but that requires hearing the legal details on the case rather than going totally off of speculation, innuendo and assumption that the tabloids...err, news outlets carry.



    I will call Tins a troublemaker and a problem when he is found guilty of starting trouble. Until then he is innocent, just like I would like to be if I got hauled in for something I didn't do (if his claims of innocence are true).

    Seth, you are entitled to your opinions and I will defend you right to express them to the end, however that does not preclude me or other "regular fans", as you prefer to call them, from expressing our opinions on this subject being debated. Is Tins guilty? I don't know and I don't believe that you do either, however that is not the point that I was trying to make. The undisputed fact is, attendance is down and yes it is mainly caused by these incidents of bad judjement by a FEW players. When the owner states that we have lost the fans, you know the current situation is both, serious and unacceptable.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I understand your point, but this is how bias is thrown in. How does a person GET a broken jaw? So why didn't the officer leave the medical reporting to a pro and simply say that it appeared he had been struck forcefully in the jaw, or better yet verify that the victim claimed he HAD BEEN struck forcefully in the jaw or that witnesses saw it happen. For all we know the guy "looked like he had a broken jaw" when he came to work that day, or from the scuffle with the coat thief.

    Witness claims he had been punched in the jaw by Mr. Tinsley. Blood was coming from his mouth. Etc. No medic required, it's not wrong, it's not opinion.

    Looked like he had a broken jaw...what's that even mean? Instead just write down that stuff, the things you see that make you come to that opinion and let an expert use that evidence to explain what you saw. That's why you don't use opinion/judgement. You can't use that as evidence. DESCRIBE the injury, report what you saw happen (if you got there in time) or what witnesses say they saw happen.

    That's what will have to happen at the trial, he'll have to describe what he meant by "looked like..." because it will be about what happened, not what looked like happened.


    I'm NOT taking a stance that the cops were out to get them, and perhaps that's what you think I'm saying with my responses to you. I'm saying that even responsible people wrap their own opinions into "factual" reporting all the time in a way that seems totally harmless.

    Maybe he's just trying to cut to the chase and summerize what the situation was and figures that's a good short hand for "jaw severely injured". He's not out to get Tins, but by making that statement A LOT OF PEOPLE took it as fact (even though the report didn't say it was). It is a loaded description, especially in light of the victim not actually having a broken jaw.
    Hindsight is 20/20. You're doing a lot of hair-splitting with the luxury of ample time to explain something that a cop wrote in the heat of the moment. Maybe, he couldn't open his mouth or had trouble enunciating his words...who knows? The cop's impression was that it appeared he had a broken jaw.
    .

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges



    NOW CAN WE PLEASE BEAT TORONTO TONIGHT!

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Needless to say, it was disturbing to see JOs name on the witness list since NOTHING has been said about that previously. Not even a "I was there and it didn't happen that way" from him.

    There are those who have stated it is about perception. And from a franchise standpoint - that is the absolute truth. Perception is an editorial comment. But it is perception that can make or break a player or team.

    When the Pacers draft or trade for a player, there is an instant pass given to that player. He is OUR player = he is a good guy. After that, the player erodes his own reputation with the fans. There is a reason Tinsley is disliked by the fans. His continued on and off court "demeanor" doesn't fly with fans ideals. My personal dislike came from him on the court. His attitude and his foul mouth caught by the cameras while on the bench. His constant "manhood or cred challenges" when he is getting beat to hell on the court.

    Frankly, I couldn't care less about whether either of them are innocent or guilty in this matter. They continue to show poor judgement and it's my team paying the price. That's not acceptable.
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    They are supposed to write down any injuries, even if they're as minor as bruises.

    I have to deal with police reports daily, for auto accidents, and every report either has suspected injuries, aches, bruises, anything or they say "not at this time," or the equivalent.

    He did his job how they're told to do their job. He didn't make up any injury, he just didn't know the severity of the injury. As someone who is trained in first aid/cpr, you're told to be overly cautious. It's better to assume worse and treat it accordingly, and then find out it's not as bad, as opposed to dismiss it and misdiagnose the injury as small.

    You really are spliting hairs here. Was their an injury to his jaw? Obviously. Was it broken? No. But at the time, he didn't know that.

    Of course there is going to be biasness, there always is. But the orginal thing I was objecting to was the notion that the officer interjected the players names by himself. He writes down what he's told, as far as statements go. He doesn't manufacture them.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    I believe there's a major difference between this incident and Club Rio. In the Club Rio case we've had one conviction already, shots were fired, apparently drugs were involved, etc.

    Here what we appear to have, even if every accusation is true, a typical bar room scuffle. Now this can certainly result in charges. But typically that's a charge like drunk and disorderly or simple battery. From what I've seen, these are often dismissed at the first court case because of a lack of a complaining witness. The idea being that a trip to jail was sufficient punishment for the crime. Only if one of the people involved wanted to make a big deal out of it would the case even proceed.

    I've never heard of any situation ever where a simple bar fight involving a) no major injuries, b) no significant property damage, and c) no complaining witnesses resulted in a prosecutor enpaneling a grand jury to investigate the case. Or seen felony charges result.

    This idea that Brizzi is floating that the grand jury was the one behind the indictments is bogus. As the saying goes, a prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. Grand juries are basically hand held and guided by the prosecutor in most cases, so you can believe that if a felony intimidation charge came out of the proceedings, it is because Brizzi wanted it.

    I have a few opinions on this:

    1. The handling of this case seems over the top compared to any other simple bar fight I've seen.

    2. Filing of a felony case over someone saying "I'm going to kill you" with nothing credible to indicate it is a real threat to kill rather than typical bravado (e.g., possessing a deadly weapon) is an abuse of prosecutorial discretion. People say "I'm going to kill you" all over this country every day and virtually no one is indicted. It is practically a figure of speech or idiomatic expression used to express anger instead of a real threat.

    3. Brizz has laid himself on the line here. If these cases unravel, it will put him on his heels. So I expect, Nifong like, that he will be unwilling to settle for anything less than a guilty plea or something that allows him to declare victory. If this case and Jackson case don't go his way, it will be very politically damaging to him in a county that is trending democrat anyway.

    4. Brizzi has focused on these type of anti-Pacers headline type cases instead of looking into the rampant corruption in local government and the city's terrible crime problem. You've got the feds investigating pea shakes houses and the like, but where's Brizz?. In an almost exclusively Democrat controlled county, he is the only check and balance to keep them in check, but he seems to be doing nothing. What's more, crime is spiraling out of control. This is obviously a bigger issue than just Brizzi, but he has to be part of the solution. Where is he?

    5. Even though I think this is overblown, I still think it shows exceptionally poor judgement on the part of the Pacers involved. Those guys have to realize they are under a microscope. One reason they are getting paid millions is to behave like public figures in the spot light. What they do on their off hours, such as drinking at 2:15am on a school night, is not a purely private matter for them. If they don't like that, they should get a regular job like the rest of us.

    6. The Pacers organization has disappointed again in its unconditional backing of Jackson/Quis version of events without having the facts. What's more, their refusal to condemn or hold those guys accountable for their questionable judgement only encourages this type of behavior. The problem starts right at the top with the Pacers here.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    I've barely glanced at the thread right now, but WHEN did the 8 Sec owner/manager decide he didn't want to press charges? That night or after a meeting with representatives of the Pacers?

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by arenn View Post
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    I believe there's a major difference between this incident and Club Rio. In the Club Rio case we've had one conviction already, shots were fired, apparently drugs were involved, etc.

    Here what we appear to have, even if every accusation is true, a typical bar room scuffle. Now this can certainly result in charges. But typically that's a charge like drunk and disorderly or simple battery. From what I've seen, these are often dismissed at the first court case because of a lack of a complaining witness. The idea being that a trip to jail was sufficient punishment for the crime. Only if one of the people involved wanted to make a big deal out of it would the case even proceed.

    I've never heard of any situation ever where a simple bar fight involving a) no major injuries, b) no significant property damage, and c) no complaining witnesses resulted in a prosecutor enpaneling a grand jury to investigate the case. Or seen felony charges result.

    This idea that Brizzi is floating that the grand jury was the one behind the indictments is bogus. As the saying goes, a prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. Grand juries are basically hand held and guided by the prosecutor in most cases, so you can believe that if a felony intimidation charge came out of the proceedings, it is because Brizzi wanted it.

    I have a few opinions on this:

    1. The handling of this case seems over the top compared to any other simple bar fight I've seen.

    2. Filing of a felony case over someone saying "I'm going to kill you" with nothing credible to indicate it is a real threat to kill rather than typical bravado (e.g., possessing a deadly weapon) is an abuse of prosecutorial discretion. People say "I'm going to kill you" all over this country every day and virtually no one is indicted. It is practically a figure of speech or idiomatic expression used to express anger instead of a real threat.

    3. Brizz has laid himself on the line here. If these cases unravel, it will put him on his heels. So I expect, Nifong like, that he will be unwilling to settle for anything less than a guilty plea or something that allows him to declare victory. If this case and Jackson case don't go his way, it will be very politically damaging to him in a county that is trending democrat anyway.

    4. Brizzi has focused on these type of anti-Pacers headline type cases instead of looking into the rampant corruption in local government and the city's terrible crime problem. You've got the feds investigating pea shakes houses and the like, but where's Brizz?. In an almost exclusively Democrat controlled county, he is the only check and balance to keep them in check, but he seems to be doing nothing. What's more, crime is spiraling out of control. This is obviously a bigger issue than just Brizzi, but he has to be part of the solution. Where is he?

    5. Even though I think this is overblown, I still think it shows exceptionally poor judgement on the part of the Pacers involved. Those guys have to realize they are under a microscope. One reason they are getting paid millions is to behave like public figures in the spot light. What they do on their off hours, such as drinking at 2:15am on a school night, is not a purely private matter for them. If they don't like that, they should get a regular job like the rest of us.

    6. The Pacers organization has disappointed again in its unconditional backing of Jackson/Quis version of events without having the facts. What's more, their refusal to condemn or hold those guys accountable for their questionable judgement only encourages this type of behavior. The problem starts right at the top with the Pacers here.


    5 and 6, I agree with, the rest I disagree with totally. Note, Brizzi is a republican, in as you say a democratic trending county, if so, he is going against the opinion of many voters, and that politically makes no sense at all. I think it is disengenous of you to blame Brizzi for the crime problems of the county, crime is what it is, crime. People that commit crimes, should be the group that you point your hate towards, and not the enforcer of the laws. I, for one, take it serious when one says that " I will kill you", and threats are often carried out as crime statistics bear it out.



    Quote:Here what we appear to have, even if every accusation is true, a typical bar room scuffle.

    There is no typical bar room scuffle! The end results of bar room fights, end in a wide range, some end with a simple fist fight, others esculate into stabbings and shootings, sometimes on location and other times at a different location and time, under completely different circumstances. Don't discount a threat, just because as you say it " was just a typical bar room scuffle".

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I've barely glanced at the thread right now, but WHEN did the 8 Sec owner/manager decide he didn't want to press charges? That night or after a meeting with representatives of the Pacers?

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    My question is, if JT and Quis were completely innocent, would it even matter at this point?

    Not at all.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    For all those pointing out that Brizz is just doing his job, how many times has a bar fight gone to a grand jury type of situation where felony charges were the result? TO ME, this seems like an over-zealous prosecutor trying to get his "white whale". Maybe Gregg Garison was his idol for bringing down Mike Tyson from the Marion County prosecutor's office.

    IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, Brizz should be using the court's time in a better way. The city of Indianapolis has a lot of larger nationally recognized problems that demand the prosecutor's time other then setting up a dog and pony show for a "bar room fight" where the complaintent doesn't seek charges. If someone was beat within an inch of his life, I would demand that the state pick up the charges. In this situation where injuries and property damage was minimal without a complaintent seeking charges, why is Brizz so interested?

    It makes me wonder if I made the wrong choice on Nov. 7th of last year!!!
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    My guess is he didnt want to press charges because it would be bad for business. I do not know the city or that bar but just hearing about it I wouldnt want to go there. A coat theif and then a bar fight where the manager and players of the pacers are involved. If I was him I would of tried to keep it as far away from the media as possible.

  20. #45
    Banned Jermaniac's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSMASH View Post
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    Elgin56

    You are one of the short sighted "Im a Pacer fan and I'm sick of this Behavior" people that claim to be fans that make me sick. Your rant about this subject, DOES NOT reflect what the real fans think. Attendenace is down more due to how the team is playing then to the issue at hand with Tinsley and Daniels. *snip*

    Let me make this clear one last time...I do not like Jammal Tinsley as a basketball player, his game is all over the place and has mor playgroung to it then professionalism. That being said is all that needs to be said. I don't care if Jamal dresses in womens clothing, or reads comic books in his off time....or even goes to strip clubs. I don't care...thats what he does when hes not on the court.

    Who are you to judge anybody? Why don't you wait for all the facts to come out first before you judge anything? *snip* Or understand your inncent until proven gulity in this country. Now that more information is creeping out how do you explain yourself?

    *snip*

    It just sounds like to me that you and people like you want to believe the worst in people before you believe the good....Thats Sad,

    *snip*

    - Flames removed - Shade
    This my kind of poster.

  21. #46

    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    They are supposed to write down any injuries, even if they're as minor as bruises.

    I have to deal with police reports daily, for auto accidents, and every report either has suspected injuries, aches, bruises, anything or they say "not at this time," or the equivalent.

    He did his job how they're told to do their job. He didn't make up any injury, he just didn't know the severity of the injury. As someone who is trained in first aid/cpr, you're told to be overly cautious. It's better to assume worse and treat it accordingly, and then find out it's not as bad, as opposed to dismiss it and misdiagnose the injury as small.

    You really are spliting hairs here. Was their an injury to his jaw? Obviously. Was it broken? No. But at the time, he didn't know that.

    Of course there is going to be biasness, there always is. But the orginal thing I was objecting to was the notion that the officer interjected the players names by himself. He writes down what he's told, as far as statements go. He doesn't manufacture them.
    You're operating under the assumption that every officer has no personal bias and no motivation to skew their statements. Certainly, the vast majority of police officers are good people, but, let's be frank, there are some bad apples out there, and it really doesn't take much of a bias to report "possible broken jaw" instead of "bruises and swelling in jaw area". The difference in those two statements could be as simple as this particular officer knowing Jamaal and Marquis were involved at Club Rio and mentally noting them as troublemakers. He could have an anti-Pacers "thug" mentality. He could be a flat-out racist. The fact is that the injuries were misrepresented on the police report.

    Police are people too.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Dat Dude View Post
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    This my kind of poster.

    I believe that Donnie W. is more in line with my way of thinking than yours or the flaming poster that your admire. Donnie on the local news stated that players have to know that they are held to a higher standard than most people and if they don't understand that or can't abide by that, then they will not be on the team. Can't be any clearer than that!

  23. #48

    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    I don't want to politicize this, but feel I have too. We live in a different world today than a mere 20 years ago. It is becoming more of a police state existence. Politicians know that if they can keep their name in the news (good or bad) it will help them in any election. Fortunately for politicians Americans don't read anymore, they can tell you who the finalists are on American Idol. Carl Brizzi will gain from this, and he knows this. Twenty years ago this would have been handled discretely, they play for the Pacers and no Prosecutor would want to prosecute a local player. This would not have been on Ch6,8 or 13. Today everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame. A chance to sue someone who has money if possible. I would bet that 10 similar incidents involving ordinary people will happen in Indianapolis tonight at local clubs. Probably no one will go to jail.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
    Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

  24. #49
    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    I was having a conversation with a coworker about this situation yesterday. It ended when he said "It's stupid that they're trying to convict Tinsley for saying 'I'm going to kill you'. If I said "******* You, is that attempted rape"?

    I LOL'd and had to walk away.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy View Post
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    I was having a conversation with a coworker about this situation yesterday. It ended when he said "It's stupid that they're trying to convict Tinsley for saying 'I'm going to kill you'. If I said "******* You, is that attempted rape"?

    I LOL'd and had to walk away.
    The analogy's only accurate if, immediately after saying this your coworker started to rip a woman's clothes off.

    Nobody's going to prosecute anyone just for shouting something - it's pounding someone right after that which gets you in trouble.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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