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Thread: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1062/SPORTS04


    This story just keeps getting weirder and weirder they're having trouble tracking down witnesses, the bar owners injuries aren't as horrible as the police report stated...this is beginning to sound more like a bunch of crap. Brizzi is just doing his job but I think there are far too many inconsistencies in this story already for anyone to be charged with anything.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Take a look at the witness list. Why is JO on the list. Was he there. And also, if you look down the list - there is only 1 seemingly independent witness. And that is April Hogue. Every other name on that list is either an employee or connected to the Pacers. Any decent attorney will be able to completely discredit those witnesses.

    If this case goes to trial. I see Daniels getting off completely and Tinsley might be convivcted of one of the lesser charges

    But the most likely outcome is a pretrial settlement



    I found this paragraph very interesting

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart

    That man left before police arrived. But Tinsley and Daniels became involved in the fight, the indictment says, and Tinsley threatened staff members trying to remove the coat thief.

    Does that mean JT and Marquis knew the coat thief

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    Member Frank Slade's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Stranger by the day...

    Too Keller, an attorney for the bar's owners, who include Nicholson's brother, Brad. "Once police are involved, it's up to the prosecutor."

    But Keller declined to comment on whether the bar's owners supported the charges being filed.

    "8 Seconds still supports the Pacers," he said.

    Marion County Prosecutor Carl Brizzi said his office is interested in justice, not victims' preferences.

    "It's not up to the bar," Brizzi said, noting that some businesses that become crime scenes don't push for charges because it could hurt their bottom line.
    Daniels. "In a word, we deny the events as they have been reported."

    Tinsley's lawyer, James Voyles, said he wasn't surprised prosecutors pursued the case despite the bar's reluctance.

    "That's the way the system works," he said. "They file a complaint, and the prosecutor investigates it. We just don't think they investigated it enough."
    2 and 2 so far is adding up to 5


    So only one actual Bar patron witnessed this ? And even the Bar Manager's lawyers says his clients injuries were exaggerated in the media ? Either this incident did not go down as has been reported or some money has exchanged hands. I think most likely it's the first scenario.

    Why Not Us ?


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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Remember when you would find Reggie, Dale and Derek in TGIF after the games? Maybe our current group would be willing to split their time between the national chains and the private bars.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Generally whe someone prefers not to press charges they themselves are hiding something they don't want brought up in public, either by the newspapers or the defense attorney. During the Club Rio incidentthat Tinsley was involved in, Carl Brizzi was furious with the two cops who did not arrest Jammal and his friend for having the bag of weed in the side pocket of the door in the SUV. That in itself caused Mr. Brizzi a great deal of embarrassment. I could see him making this situation almost to a personal level.

    Carl Brizzi came back to Indianapolis from Washington DC to run for Marion County Prosecutor. The classic big fish in a small bowl, or tis better to rule in hell, then serve in heaven if you get my drift. Anything that Mr. Brizzi does in the guise of "just doing my job" has political asperations written all over it. The more high profile the case, the more it is noticed. There was a case involving some student atheletes at Duke University that were arrested on Rape charges, but it was found that the prosecutor was just trying to pad his re-election and really had no evidence, yet the students names have been all but ruined regardless of their innocence.

    This wouldn't be the first time someone has used a professional athelete to further his or hers political asperations.

    Of course this is just my personal opinion, but with the article that came out in the star today, this sure smells "fishy".

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    You can't be serious Smash. You mean the judge in the A.N. Smith burial hearing wasn't really choked up and emotional? Come on our elected officials always work for the public good.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Ok, let's just continue to make exuses for players who continue to show they don't care about the image that the Pacer's present to the PAYING CUSTOMERS. Whether the Pacer players like it or not, they represent the team in everthing they do or say. Laying blame for Tinsley and Daniels misdeeds on Brizzi is just ludicrous. Did Brizzi twist their arms and make them act the fool? It is time for all Pacer fans stand up and quit making exuses for any players criminal behavior and demand that they at least make an effort to stay off the front pages of the paper. Herb Simon all but said that the Pacers have lost the fans and that that attendance continues to drop.

    I am on Pacer fan who is sick and tired of criminal behavior by a few Pacer players, and more so by Pacer fans who stick their head into the sand and try to rationalize their bad behavior. Pacer fans should expect better and are now demanding it by not attending the games.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSMASH View Post
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    Generally whe someone prefers not to press charges they themselves are hiding something they don't want brought up in public, either by the newspapers or the defense attorney.
    That was my guess someone who doesn't want to press charges that initially made this seem like Tinsley was on a murderous rampage and beat this guy to within an inch of his life knows he was full of crap and to prevent himself from having the truth come out. The only thing that seems credible is that Marquis, and Tinsley were at the bar...that's like saying at that particular time, we knew it was dark outside? Like many people on here have claimed what intent did Tinsley have to start beating up some random bar owner. It seems like one minute they're at the place enjoying themselves the next minute Tinsley is wanting to kill somebody? I'm sorry but that just doesn't add up especially for a low-key quiet guy like Marquis.

    UB like you said I'm wondering how JO is a part of the witnesses initial reports didn't even have him at the place as far as what information has been given to the general public in the story. I think our boys are innocent it's a shame that so many people jumped to conclusions over this. If this all turns out to be a wash, and I were the Simons i'd be suing somebody for libel, slander, and anything else I could sue them for because it OBVIOUSLY generated a drop in attendence as evidence by the game against the Bucks, there have been funerals more lively than at the game on Wednesday.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    Ok, let's just continue to make exuses for players who continue to show they don't care about the image that the Pacer's present to the PAYING CUSTOMERS. Whether the Pacer players like it or not, they represent the team in everthing they do or say. Laying blame for Tinsley and Daniels misdeeds on Brizzi is just ludicrous. Did Brizzi twist their arms and make them act the fool? It is time for all Pacer fans stand up and quit making exuses for any players criminal behavior and demand that they at least make an effort to stay off the front pages of the paper. Herb Simon all but said that the Pacers have lost the fans and that that attendance continues to drop.

    I am on Pacer fan who is sick and tired of criminal behavior by a few Pacer players, and more so by Pacer fans who stick their head into the sand and try to rationalize their bad behavior. Pacer fans should expect better and are now demanding it by not attending the games.
    Nobody is making excuses, just waiting for all the facts to come in. As far as we know nobody even "acted a fool". These stories are becoming increasingly as inconsistent as a stephen jackson 3-point attempt .

    Look if they're guilty they're guilty but so far alot of things just aren't adding up and the level-headed bunch of us want to at least wait for due process to occurr before we call for anyones heads. Even Darrel Armstrong was accused of beating up a cop when he was in Orlando guess what, case was thrown out of court cause it was all a wash, but everybody is so quick to jump on the I hate Jamal Tinsley bandwagon they'd rather jump to conclusions than wait for the facts.

    I think everyone wants them gone if it's the case, but until then they're "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY".

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Slade View Post
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    So only one actual Bar patron witnessed this ? And even the Bar Manager's lawyers says his clients injuries were exaggerated in the media ? Either this incident did not go down as has been reported or some money has exchanged hands. I think most likely it's the first scenario.
    Actually much of the blame for the press reports lies with the police report. The officer who wrote the report claimed Tinsley fought and seriously injured the bar manager. As I remember it, the report also claimed Tinsley was probably bleeding from a cut received in the fracas.

    Now we are getting a different set of facts. It appears Tinsley's major legal troubles, the felony, isn't from the physical assault, but from verbal assault. I don't know...seems like a crock of crap to me and that Tinsley is being punished for his celebrity, rather than given a break as most suspect was the case.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Elgin56

    You are one of the short sighted "Im a Pacer fan and I'm sick of this Behavior" people that claim to be fans that make me sick. Your rant about this subject, DOES NOT reflect what the real fans think. Attendenace is down more due to how the team is playing then to the issue at hand with Tinsley and Daniels. *snip*

    Let me make this clear one last time...I do not like Jammal Tinsley as a basketball player, his game is all over the place and has mor playgroung to it then professionalism. That being said is all that needs to be said. I don't care if Jamal dresses in womens clothing, or reads comic books in his off time....or even goes to strip clubs. I don't care...thats what he does when hes not on the court.

    Who are you to judge anybody? Why don't you wait for all the facts to come out first before you judge anything? *snip* Or understand your inncent until proven gulity in this country. Now that more information is creeping out how do you explain yourself?

    *snip*

    It just sounds like to me that you and people like you want to believe the worst in people before you believe the good....Thats Sad,

    *snip*

    - Flames removed - Shade

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    So now the officer who wrote the report is at fault for naming Jamaal and Quis?
    You're saying he manufactured the witness statements naming them both?

    This is starting to get unbelievable. I seriously doubt any officer would put his job on the line just to make it seem like two NBA players did something criminal, especially when another player was there and not named.

    I can believe witnesses not knowing what exactly they saw, and just knew they had seen two famous people in the middle and thought they were fighting, when they really could have been trying to break it up. Officers write down what they are told, not what they believe happened.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Yes I know I mispelled some words, but I wanted to post my thoughts while they were fresh and not use a spell check. So for all you who need to be critical of some mispelled words, please be critical.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman View Post
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    Actually much of the blame for the press reports lies with the police report. The officer who wrote the report claimed Tinsley fought and seriously injured the bar manager. As I remember it, the report also claimed Tinsley was probably bleeding from a cut received in the fracas.

    Now we are getting a different set of facts. It appears Tinsley's major legal troubles, the felony, isn't from the physical assault, but from verbal assault. I don't know...seems like a crock of crap to me and that Tinsley is being punished for his celebrity, rather than given a break as most suspect was the case.

    This is exactly what I was talking about in my post, making excuses for bad behavior is not the answer. If you would make a threatening verbal assault, you would find out quickly that you would be prosecuted for it, so don't give me that his celebrity status is the reason for his troubles.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSMASH View Post
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    Elgin56

    You are one of the short sighted "Im a Pacer fan and I'm sick of this Behavior" people that claim to be fans that make me sick. Your rant about this subject, DOES NOT reflect what the real fans think. Attendenace is down more due to how the team is playing then to the issue at hand with Tinsley and Daniels. But your peabrain just keeps right on pushing the he's guilty and I'm not going to stand it anymore soapbox.

    Let me make this clear one last time...I do not like Jammal Tinsley as a basketball player, his game is all over the place and has mor playgroung to it then professionalism. That being said is all that needs to be said. I don't care if Jamal dresses in womens clothing, or reads comic books in his off time....or even goes to strip clubs. I don't care...thats what he does when hes not on the court.

    Who are you to judge anybody? Why don't you wait for all the facts to come out first before you judge anything? No, you like many other pea-brains just want to convict, convict, convict because your probbably in your mid fifties and don't have a real life.Or understand your inncent until proven gulity in this country. Now that more information is creeping out how do you explain yourself?

    Are you even a season Ticket holder? Have you ever been one? Do you understand economics and psychology? DO you have an education that goes past High School?

    It just sounds like to me that you and people like you want to believe the worst in people before you believe the good....Thats Sad,

    Your Sad!


    Your posts doesn't deserve a response, so I will let your words speak for you.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Slade View Post
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    Stranger by the day...



    2 and 2 so far is adding up to 5


    So only one actual Bar patron witnessed this ? And even the Bar Manager's lawyers says his clients injuries were exaggerated in the media ? Either this incident did not go down as has been reported or some money has exchanged hands. I think most likely it's the first scenario.
    Even more so when you consider that the guy that by every account LOST A TOOTH and was still there looking for it when the police arrived, wasn't even charged. How'd he lose the tooth? Accidentally?

    I assumed that at least he threw some punches in order to get punched in return.
    The 13 names include Pacer Keith McLeod and his friend Jeremy King, both of whom were cleared by the grand jury.
    Just the other day the story at WTHR as copied to PD was this
    The police report says Tinsley's first punch knocked the manager to his knees. That's when Daniels and McLeod's cousin started throwing punches. Police say the manager lost an ear lobe and it looked like he had a broken jaw.

    Tinsley and Daniels left before six off-duty police officers who were providing security in the parking lot were called inside. They say McLeod stayed out of the fight, but his cousin, Jeremy King, lost a tooth in the fray.
    2 + 2 = 5.3
    at least the way this is going, very inconsistant


    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Officers write down what they are told, not what they believe happened.
    err...
    Police say the manager lost an ear lobe and it looked like he had a broken jaw
    Looked like, but turns out he didn't. So in that case the officer apparently made a judgement/opinion call in his report.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    err...

    Looked like, but turns out he didn't. So in that case the officer apparently made a judgement/opinion call in his report.
    :rollseyes: That's not even close to what I was talking about, and you very well know it.

    He's not a medic, but it is part of his job to report injuries. Notice it didn't say he DID have a broken jaw.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    This is not surprising at all. I've dealt with Indy prosecutors before and they will try to force through any case they can, regardless of evidence.

    This case will likely be thrown out. Something tells me Brizzi is trying to make something out of nothing to boost his rep here. Too many things don't add up.

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    I consume tiny briefs Robobtowncolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    This is not surprising at all. I've dealt with Indy prosecutors before and they will try to force through any case they can, regardless of evidence.
    And I've worked against them with the Marion County Public Defender's Office and can vouch that that's not accurate at all. By an overwhelming majority, they're just people trying to do their job to the best of their ability and do what they feel is right to protect the citizens of Central Indiana.
    Narf!

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    :rollseyes: That's not even close to what I was talking about, and you very well know it.

    He's not a medic, but it is part of his job to report injuries. Notice it didn't say he DID have a broken jaw.

    you don't have to be a medic to notice if a guy is missing an earlobe or not...

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin56 View Post
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    If you would make a threatening verbal assault, you would find out quickly that you would be prosecuted for it, so don't give me that his celebrity status is the reason for his troubles.
    I disagree. And, by the way, that charge is a felony. A very serious charge against Tinsley.

    If the facts were that in the heat of the moment of an altercation with you I uttered, "I'm going to kill you"...then after we both calmed down, I walked away without following through with the threat, and without additional physical contact, I'd guarantee I would not be charged with a felony.

    You know why? What I did doesn't deserve a felony record. Additionally, from a practical stand point, the likelihood that a jury would convict me of a felony for that incident is probably 5%, or less. The words were just words that I obviously did not really mean. My walking away peacefully proves that.

    Get my point? The felony charge appears to be crap. The misdemeanor charges may have merit. Wasn't there. I don't know.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Robobtowncolt View Post
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    And I've worked against them with the Marion County Public Defender's Office and can vouch that that's not accurate at all. By an overwhelming majority, they're just people trying to do their job to the best of their ability and do what they feel is right to protect the citizens of Central Indiana.
    Not the case with who I dealt with. Of course, that was about 11 years ago, so maybe things have changed.

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Not the case with who I dealt with. Of course, that was about 11 years ago, so maybe things have changed.
    Maybe that's how that one prosecutor lived his life. Let's move on.....
    Narf!

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    As I said previously, I'll wait until all the facts are in to make a judgement. It's getting stanger as more time passes.

    It seems the bar owner may be more interested in preserving his customers . I suspect some Pacers drop some pretty big bucks at his place. Now the manager's injuries aren't as severe as previously reported. It could be (only speculating) that a stack of C-notes goes a long way in healing.

    It could be that Tinsley is perfectly innocent. However, I do believe that he made the comment about the killing.

    Regardless, if Tins and Quis are acquitted, the damage has already been done. The seed has been planted....lots of fans have already convicted them and like Simon says, attendance is down. That part of it is a reality. What to do about it is the big question. If people are convinced that they are guilty when in fact they are innocenct, you're not going to change their minds and force them to attend games.

    Regardless of the outcome, it looks like a no-win situation for the Tins, Quis and the Pacers orginazation. A sad situation, indeed.
    .

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    Default Re: 8 second saloon owner didn't even want to press charges

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    you don't have to be a medic to notice if a guy is missing an earlobe or not...

    Do I really have to repost it?

    That's not even close to what I was talking about, and you very well know it.

    Whether or not he had a broken jaw, or a missing an ear lobe, isn't what's at the center of my comments. Officers just don't make up things and put them in their reports, especially witness statements (the exact things I was talking about).

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