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Thread: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

    1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

    2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

    Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I just wish I could give some of that ego to Tayshaun Prince, whohas all the freaking ability in the world but chooses never to use it.
    Derrick McKey Jr.

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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

    1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

    2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

    Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.
    In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

    1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

    2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

    Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.
    In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.
    DARKO WILL REVOLUTIONIZE THE 12TH MAN POSITION!!!
    Now Now, when he's in his 5th year and doing nothing, you can start pointing fingers.....

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

    1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

    2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

    Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.
    In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.
    DARKO WILL REVOLUTIONIZE THE 12TH MAN POSITION!!!
    Now Now, when he's in his 5th year and doing nothing, you can start pointing fingers.....
    Even if Darko does become starter quality, who do you dump? Wallace or Okur?

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I really don't think we'll need to "dump" anybody. Either Okur can come off the bench until Ben starts declining, or we try Okur AND Darko, and Bring Ben in as a 6th man. You act liek there's something wrong with having 3 good big men.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

    1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

    2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

    Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.
    In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.
    DARKO WILL REVOLUTIONIZE THE 12TH MAN POSITION!!!
    Now Now, when he's in his 5th year and doing nothing, you can start pointing fingers.....
    Even if Darko does become starter quality, who do you dump? Wallace or Okur?
    Most likely, those three will never play together when they're ALL good players. Even with the Pistons dumping salary this summer, they're ina tough situation to re-sign Okur if he blows up and Charlolette or Utah decides they want him.
    Hardly. We're not in GOlden State's position of last summer with Arenas. We can actually MATCH any offers for Okur, since we are well under the salary cap. He's still a restricted free agent.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I really don't think we'll need to "dump" anybody. Either Okur can come off the bench until Ben starts declining, or we try Okur AND Darko, and Bring Ben in as a 6th man. You act liek there's something wrong with having 3 good big men.
    There's nothing wrong with it, but it gets very expensive... see:Brad Miller
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  9. #34
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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

    1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

    2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

    Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.
    In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.
    DARKO WILL REVOLUTIONIZE THE 12TH MAN POSITION!!!
    Now Now, when he's in his 5th year and doing nothing, you can start pointing fingers.....
    Even if Darko does become starter quality, who do you dump? Wallace or Okur?
    Most likely, those three will never play together when they're ALL good players. Even with the Pistons dumping salary this summer, they're ina tough situation to re-sign Okur if he blows up and Charlolette or Utah decides they want him.
    Hardly. We're not in GOlden State's position of last summer with Arenas. We can actually MATCH any offers for Okur, since we are well under the salary cap. He's still a restricted free agent.
    Actually, you're not well enough under the cap. I don't want to go find the numbers, but the worst thing (and the best thing) that could happen to the Pistons is that he blows up. You can only match up to the cap, and you're not in good enough shape if someone comes up with a 7 million a year offer. But if you can find a way to clear off Corliss Williamson or someone else, you might be okay.
    Btowncolt, we can MATCH any offer. I repeat: we can MATCH any offer. We can go over the cap to sign him, so long as we start out UNDER the cap. Otherwise, all we can offer is the MLE. We dont have his FULL Bird rights, but we DO have certain rights to him.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    Btowncolt, we can MATCH any offer. I repeat: we can MATCH any offer. We can go over the cap to sign him, so long as we start out UNDER the cap. Otherwise, all we can offer is the MLE.
    Thanks for the , I'm sure it was COMPLETELY necessary. Here's the thing. You CAN'T offer him anything you want. The Larry Bird rules don't apply since he hasn't been under contract for 3 years. You can ONLY go up to the hard cap. So in order to do that, you have to clear salary. But that only applies if someone comes out of the woodwork and offers him a big salary, and that doesn't look very likely.

    Sidenote: I hate how this quotes EVERYTHING.
    You can delete as much as you want as your post your response.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.


    In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.
    And what will Okur be? IMO he's a 20-10 shotblocker down the road.

    Carmelo will be a 25-7-4 guy and I'm not convinced - yet - that he won't become a pretty fair defender.

    There will be considerably more distance between Prince and Anthony than there will be between Milicic and Okur - particularly since I'm not 100% convinced that Milicic will be playing in the all-star game 5 years from now.

    And you may think that five years from now you can keep all of them under contract but if you do, Detroit's willing to go WAY over the luxury tax (of course the next CBA may change everything there).
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.


    In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.
    And what will Okur be? IMO he's a 20-10 shotblocker down the road.

    Carmelo will be a 25-7-4 guy and I'm not convinced - yet - that he won't become a pretty fair defender.

    There will be considerably more distance between Prince and Anthony than there will be between Milicic and Okur - particularly since I'm not 100% convinced that Milicic will be playing in the all-star game 5 years from now.

    And you may think that five years from now you can keep all of them under contract but if you do, Detroit's willing to go WAY over the luxury tax (of course the next CBA may change everything there).

    What you are missing out on is the fact I envision Darko and Memo playing TOGETHER. I dont consider it choosing Darko over Memo.

    BTW, Tay is more talented than Carmello in every area except scoring. In an offense revolving around 2 big guys that can score, Tay will fit in much better. The thing is, The pick is going to make us look REALLY bad right now, because we dont have a consistent #1 guy.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  13. #38

    Default Re: Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.

    I mentioned this as a Pistons weakness after their recent loss against the Pacers but its tough to put two 1st year starters into your lineup in Prince and Okur and expect them to be key ingredients for a top team in the league.

    The problem with young players is that they are inconsistent you'll see one game when Okur gets 20 and 15 then the next game he shoots 1-10 and scores 4 pts. same thing with Prince. Thats just the way young players perform; the 76ers are facing the same thing with Dalembert one game he looks legit and gets 24 and 16 then the next game he scores 2 pts. and looks like he shouldn't be in the NBA. Even Popovich recently moved Ginobili back to the bench for this very reason. I'm sure if you asked Larry Brown he would want both of those players still coming off the bench, thats why he tried to start Elden Campbell but the Pistons roster isn't deep enough to have Prince and Okur coming off the bench. They are going to struggle to score consistently when they go against good front court players; I'm sure Theo Ratliff had something to do with Brown not pounding it inside to Okur he knows what kind of defensive presence Theo is in the paint and probably saw it as a matchup problem. Sure Prince and Okur are going to have good games but they won't do it consistently every night.

    The Pistons aren't alone; its a league wide problem because of either injuries or a lack of depth on rosters because of expansion so coaches are forced to play young inexperienced players in key roles and they will struggle in those roles. Its one of the reasons the Pacers are so good this season they have veteran starters; yes they are young but they are considered veterans at this point of their careers and they also have depth but more importantly the Pacers depth is mostly veteran players with playoff experience like Croshere, Pollard, AJ, Anderson, etc.,, all guys with big time playoff experience coming off the bench not young kids like alot of teams have on their roster.

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