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Thread: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

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    Default Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?


    The first thought that comes to mind on this subject if this were to happen would be the Player Agents throwing themselves out of windows because they wouldn’t be able to pay for their Rolexes or Mercedes…all kidding aside. What would the NBA be like if this were to happen?
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    Would there be ……..
    • A better salary cap and more workable luxury tax? Having the salary cap in place every year like the NFL gives your bigger contracted player much more flexibility to show just how much HE cares about winning compared to Greed. Being able to restructure shows more good will to your commitment to winning and to your organization. Teams would then be able to slot their players into dollar slots on the pecking list. Trading players between teams would then become much easier because of the contract flexibility.
    • More competitive teams, and yet better front offices that would have to actually manage a teams finances .Owners such as Mark Cuban or Micky Arison would no longer have a selling advantage such as the no state income tax that routinely draws the top name players to an area or a specific team. Teams could easily slot players with large or small $$ amounts, but when was the last time a team with a VERY high payroll (see the Knicks and Mavericks) won a World Championship. No, by the nature of the beast teams will have to actually scout the colleges for better role players for their teams.
    • Sensible contracts due only to the players actual skill , no longer would agents of certain star players be able to hold up teams because they want one of their less gifted clients to get a decent contract. Yeah, that never happens….The NBA scouting camps that happen after the college season has completed would then become more of an NFL scouting combine. A controlled environment that coaches and trainers could actually accurately rate the basketball skills instead of the dunking ability. They would also be able to give better psychological evaluations on each player wanting to enter the draft. Those evaluations would be worth their weight in gold.
    • The bottom line is that players would then have to perform night in and night out and not mail in a game. In the pre-free agent days players actually worried about their job security. Shouldn’t they now?
    I am curious to see what rest of the Pacer nation thinks about on this topic, and who knows maybe someone in an NBA front office will take notice.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    The main reason I'd like to see the non guaranteed contract is maybe it would eliminate someone like Alonzo putting the screws to two teams like he did. Getting paid big bucks for being a cancer is one heck of a trick. So actually maybe he should be admired for his skill in doing so.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    The NBA is the only organization that I know that has gauranteed contracts. Do any of you. I know when was working we sure did not. It just allows anyone who wants to to loaf up until the last year then show up. I know that not the case by most players, but there are some. So why do they have the gauranteed contracts?

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by OTD View Post
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    The NBA is the only organization that I know that has gauranteed contracts. Do any of you. I know when was working we sure did not. It just allows anyone who wants to to loaf up until the last year then show up. I know that not the case by most players, but there are some. So why do they have the gauranteed contracts?
    I am pretty sure that the MLB and NHL have them but I am not sure because frankly I could care less about those two leagues.
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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Non Guaranteed contracts is something i'm strongly for.

    It would go away from being a players league. Really, for the most part, it would elminate the thought of a player only playing well in his contract year because he wants that big guaranteed contract.

    About the only real negative about non guaranteed contracts is that players can demand to re-negoiate but that is really how it should be. They should get paid what they deserve.

    It would be a hard sell to get the Players Union to agree, but it is something that the league needs to push for. It would suck for those lazy players, but it would be great for the rest who want to win.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    The biggest problem in the NBA isn't the "thug" players.....

    Its the "thug" players union!

    Time to put the blame , where the blame belongs!

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    Non Guaranteed contracts is something i'm strongly for.

    It would go away from being a players league. Really, for the most part, it would elminate the thought of a player only playing well in his contract year because he wants that big guaranteed contract.

    About the only real negative about non guaranteed contracts is that players can demand to re-negoiate but that is really how it should be. They should get paid what they deserve.

    It would be a hard sell to get the Players Union to agree, but it is something that the league needs to push for. It would suck for those lazy players, but it would be great for the rest who want to win.
    I think it would single-handedly reverse the half-hearted, apathetic attitude that accompanies a large chunk of players. That's why the NFL is such a great league. One thing as well, there is such a disparity in talent level between the West and the East. I think this would eventually level out the talent field, by not hamstringing ball clubs with bad contracts long after a player has outlived his usefulness. All in all, I would love to see it, but the NBAPA would sooner cut off a limb than give away their guaranteed status on contracts.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSMASH View Post
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    The biggest problem in the NBA isn't the "thug" players.....

    Its the "thug" players union!

    Time to put the blame , where the blame belongs!
    its partly the 'thug' union but i also think its about the players themselves because i don't think it is an unreasonable thing to ask for (from the players perspective). so the league shares as much blame in that regard as the union for letting contracts and such get so far out of control. but the players are the ones who have decided that just because they have a guarenteed contracts they don't need to play until the final year (obviously this doesn't apply to every player with a longterm/high salary deal, but a lot). to me getting a longterm deal would be a ton of pressure to live up to it so you'd work your *** of to 'earn' it. but instead players seem to coast.

    another thing the NFL does is lace their contracts with incentives. i'm not aware if the NBA does this too, but that could also be another idea: put a salary limit for players (like no more than $10mil a season, but load it with playing incentives up to $10mil more...just tossing out example #s). another idea is actually limiting the length of contracts. don't put a salary limit on a player but no contract can be longer than 2 or 3 years. im not sure if any of this is possible, but i also don't know how we can go back at this point to non-guarenteed contracts
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    I absolutely would love if the salary side of the NBA was more like the NFL (although I say that with hesitation because I'm largely ignorant of the NFL) because from an outsider's perspective, the NFL is extremely flexible in this arena. The players can't just dog it after they earn a 6-year deal, contracts can be altered, and it just seems in general that whatever they're doing, the players stay hungry, teams are stuck with bad contracts, and we all know the league is thriving.

    The problem is getting the players union to budge. I don't think they will. And it's sad because they're screwing themselves over but they're too greedy to admit it. Or even if their hearts are at least somewhat in the right place, they still don't see that in the end, this will continue to hurt the NBA.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    The problem is getting the players union to budge. I don't think they will. And it's sad because they're screwing themselves over but they're too greedy to admit it. Or even if their hearts are at least somewhat in the right place, they still don't see that in the end, this will continue to hurt the NBA.
    I've always thought/been told that the job of a union isn't to protect the top members, but to protect the bottom ones.

    Guarunteed contracts are more beneficial to a Eddie Gill type player, even though they're making the league minimum. If they were to be cut before they're contract has run through, they wouldn't get as much money as if they were with the team for the full contract length.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    I think it would be fair to guarantee that the player is paid for the rest of the year regardless of being cut, but don't let that spill into multi-year guarantees.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Just think if the NFL didn't have non-guaranteed contracts. Would the Pats stay as good as they have been? I highly doubt it.

    Now, think if the NBA had non-guaranteed contracts. Just think of the Pacers alone. I bet Austin Croshere would have re-constructed his contract, Bender would have been cut a long time ago and those two things alone probably would have given the Pacers many more opitions, making us much better. A team like Sacramento, they have slowly gone downhill since their Western Conference Finals loss to the Lakers, and part of that is they were hampered by Chris Webber's contract.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Just remember to consider this ... the NFL allows signing bonuses, which are guaranteed and count against the cap no matter what. The bonus hit on the cap is prorated out through the life of the contract, but if a player is cut, the bonus accelerates forward. So if, for example, Reggie Wayne and Peyton Manning were cut by the Colts tomorrow, there'd be a huge cap hit. It'd really hamstring the team.

    The question isn't just as simple as saying, 'We want non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL.' It's truly different system and situation. Not really comparable in my mind.

    To me, the main reason the NFL seems to have more players that care is because they're so much easier to replace. Player shelf lives are shorter. Finding a No. 5/6 wide receiver is more a matter of perference than anything else. Finding a No. 3 PG, on the other hand, is a different world. You can't just pull someone from the NBDL on a whim and expect them to work out.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Here is a good site on the NFL's salary cap.

    http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSMASH View Post
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    The biggest problem in the NBA isn't the "thug" players.....

    Its the "thug" players union!

    Time to put the blame , where the blame belongs!

    How can you separate the two? Answer, you cannot. They are one and the same, so if you are going to label the union as "thug", you are therefore calling the players, "thug". Hint, the union is carrying out the wishes and demands of the players, it is really that simple.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    I like guaranteed contracts it promotes team play. Otherwise every year every player is playing for his next contract - and I believe that promotes selfish play. It is the responsibility of each teams management to pick the right players to give longterm contracts to.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    To me it all starts at the grade school leval, And as it goes into HS it is worse, about how good am I, and if they go to College it is increased even more. By the time a boy reachs the NBA. It is not if they know how to play basketball because most of them don't. All they know how to do is run and gun. That is why the world is stomping the USA. Today. out players dont know what fundamentals are.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    I am pretty sure that the MLB and NHL have them but I am not sure because frankly I could care less about those two leagues.
    NHL has them. They have a hard cap with guaranteed contracts.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    I raised this issue a few months ago. Does anyone object if I combine the threads?

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=25107
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    I've advocated non-guaranteed contracts for years. With the players union, it will never happen, but it could benefit the sport in a number of ways.

    1. It would put more control of players in the hands of the coach. I doubt you would have a jerk like SJAX cussing out his coach on the sidelines.

    2. Over a period of time, I believe it would result in a lower average salary in the NBA. I think players would have to accept lower salaries in otder to have any kind of a comfort level that they might be able to stick with a team longer term.

    3. As a result of #2, I believe it would also result in more controlled, possibly even lower ticket prices for fans.

    4. On the court, it would most likely result in 48 minutes of competitive basketball, rather than 3 quarters of 75% effort and 1 quarter of all-out effort.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    One of the things I love about the NBA is the guaranteed contract.

    While they can hamstring a franchise, they are definitely the right thing to do for players.

    I just think that they whould be shorter, with more options. I think no contract should last more than 5 years, and options should be built into the third year of 5 year "max" deals, and should never extend farther than 5 years after the extension is signed.
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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    All that is needed is for the owners and general managers to act like the contracts are guaranteed and not short term monopoly money.
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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I like guaranteed contracts it promotes team play. Otherwise every year every player is playing for his next contract - and I believe that promotes selfish play. It is the responsibility of each teams management to pick the right players to give longterm contracts to.
    Are there no scouts in your world? The guys who play for themselves either wouldn't get picked up or only be a team that was desperate for what he brought.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I like guaranteed contracts it promotes team play. Otherwise every year every player is playing for his next contract - and I believe that promotes selfish play. It is the responsibility of each teams management to pick the right players to give longterm contracts to.
    That alreay happens.

    A prime example, and the most recent, would be Bonzi Wells.

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    Default Re: Non Guaranteed Player contracts…..Would they help the NBA or destroy it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I like guaranteed contracts it promotes team play. Otherwise every year every player is playing for his next contract - and I believe that promotes selfish play.
    I know what you're saying but wouldn't the selfish players be cast aside? I think that would sort itself out fairly quickly and then we'd all be better off for it. To be selfish that would mean you aren't doing what the coach wants. And if you aren't doing what the coach wants, that means the doghouse for you. And if you stay in the doghouse only the dumbest player in the world could possibly think his contract would be picked up into the next season.



    It is the responsibility of each teams management to pick the right players to give longterm contracts to.
    This I agree with BUT: It's already (IMHO) proven that they can't do that. Some of it is understandable, some of it is the hand in the cookie jar syndrome. But then the understandable part is when a player looks like they are on an ascension and then levels off much sooner than anticipated. How much of that is because they got a guaranteed contract and got 'satisfied'?

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