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Thread: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Do straight people who kiss in public get rocks thrown at them? Do they get beaten up, sometimes to death? Do they have slurs hurled at them out of car windows? Are they spit on?
    Obviously no and I didn't think I implied it.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    It must be one hell of a slow news week.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    I assume you have religious and state marriages in the US. Am I correct in that?

    IF true... then obviously for the state gays don't have the same rights as heterosexuals as state marriages between gays are not allowed in all of the US's states. Correct?

    IF so, I am not sure here, then isn't that in direct violation of the Founding fathers principle of individual liberty and the principle of equality you just mentioned?

    Or is that argument only meant to be used for people who oppose gay state marriages and/or legislation?

    I'm not sure, about all this I simply don't know enough of the US constitution and legal system, but it strikes me as "odd" at best and "preferential" or "discriminatory" to one side at worst.

    Btw interesting discussion!

    Regards,

    Mourning
    There have been monstrous inconsistencies between the US Constitution and what actually happens - even legally in this country.

    Numero uno is easy to see from the preamble: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal ..." while at the same time people were able to own other people and an entire ethnicity was only counted as 3/5 of a person in the country's census.

    With that out of the way, IMO the Gay Marriage issue is an absolutely fantastic argument in favor of the separation of Church and State.

    Marriage is essentially a religious institution - the binding together of one man and one woman in a union blessed by God. Even in non-Christian societies marriage, AFAIK ALWAYS involves some sort of spiritual union between a husband and wife. The problem is, the state adopted it and gave it legal standing. IMO the word "marriage" should be stricken from every legal aspect of our country and replaced with the term "Civil Union." A justice of the peace can perform a civil union - it's given legal status for tax, insurance and inheritance purposes. Leave marriages where they belong - in Churches. Of course anyone getting married can also simultaneously become part of a Civil Union. And if a Church (or any religious institution) wants to grant homesexuals a marriage license - have at it.

    That takes religion out of the picture and allows a civil union to be a legal bond created between two people, whatever their race, religion, sex, etc.

    Separation of Church and State is a wonderful foundation on which our nation is based - too bad we ignored it with marriage.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    Many people don't like straight people kissing in public either. Damn heterophobes.
    It's not that I don't like it. It's just that I feel they should share with the rest of the class.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    My apologies Mourning, nothing agaisnt the Dutch one of my favorite Pacers was one after all.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    Obviously no and I didn't think I implied it.
    No, I took your post as an attempt to be light-hearted about the subject. And that's fine.

    I just wanted to point out that gay people display (even if it just holding hands or registering together at a hotel) their sexual preference at great physical, emotional, financial and social peril. The threat is real, the danger is real and the violence often comes at completely unexpected times. The fear is justified.

    There is no comparison in the heterosexual world.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    No, I took your post as an attempt to be light-hearted about the subject. And that's fine.

    I just wanted to point out that gay people display (even if it just holding hands or registering together at a hotel) their sexual preference at great physical, emotional, financial and social peril. The threat is real, the danger is real and the violence often comes at completely unexpected times. The fear is justified.

    There is no comparison in the heterosexual world.
    No doubt. Even though I disapprove of homosexuality, I wish that more would come out believe it or not. Some of them like to compare their struggle with that of blacks, yet they won't stand up. African Americans in the past suffered far more than what any homosexual would face today by coming out. Make no mistake this applies to Christians among many other people that are supposed to be something but yet lead secret lives just because of a little hardship.
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  8. #108
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    No doubt. Even though I disapprove of homosexuality, I wish that more would come out believe it or not. Some of them like to compare their struggle with that of blacks, yet they won't stand up. African Americans in the past suffered far more than what any homosexual would face today by coming out. Make no mistake this applies to Christians among many other people that are supposed to be something but yet lead secret lives just because of a little hardship.
    Things are different in the bigger cities. Very few people in Los Angeles or Chicago are hiding their sexual orientation any more, and those who are are in pressure to do so because of mostly family (and some work - see NBA) situations. I can name three intelligent, successful, fantastic friends who are all unwelcome to return to their homes in the fly-over states simply because they came out to their families.

    One man in particular sends Christmas gifts to his nieces every year, and every year they are returned to him unopened. He was not welcome to attend his own brother's wedding.

    We are his family now, and we love him more than his own parents.

    If everyone came out at the same time, don't be surprised to hear this coming from the mouth of someone close to you:

    "Oh my goodness - MOM? NOT YOU OF ALL PEOPLE!!!"
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  9. #109
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyPacer View Post
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    My apologies Mourning, nothing agaisnt the Dutch one of my favorite Pacers was one after all.
    Hey no apologies needed, Sparky. I took your quote as something it was not

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    I should add - in the end, I'm not asking for gay people to be "tolerated". I'm just asking every one to look inside themselves and seriously ask: "If someone I know is gay, how does that effect me? Am I harmed in any way?"
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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  11. #111

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    I would like to thank everyone for a) being very honest in this discussion, and b) keeping it somewhat lighthearted and civil. I'm told that in the past the MODS would break out the banhammer early and often on this board. Maybe you need to to facilitate an open and honest discussion like this one.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    it also promotes slavery. is that something you have to abstain from too?
    The bible doesn't 'promote' slavery, (Other than to God and Jesus).

    It does give rules for governing slaves. Poor Israelites sold themselves into slavery, but such slaves were freed in certain years. Plus the Israelites had to treat they slaves a certain way. Such slavery was much like being a domestic servant today. Plus you could buy your way out of such slavery.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Give me a BREAK! So, if people told you heterosexuality is sinfull/degenerate/whatever ... you will stop having sex with your wife or girlfriend and become a "monk"?

    That's so easy to say for you, your not even close to beying in that position. You are in the luxurious seat.

    I'm a heterosexual male. I don't deny others the right to love someone of the same gender. Why? Because, it is NOT my business and I have NO right to deny them what I myself like to have (loving the person I love, who happens to have another gender) as long as that person doesn't act in a criminal or traumatizing way (for other persons) or brake the basic laws of society.
    I think having sex with someone you are not married to is just as bad as having homosexual sex.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Do straight people who kiss in public get rocks thrown at them? Do they get beaten up, sometimes to death? Do they have slurs hurled at them out of car windows? Are they spit on?
    Is anyone saying that is right

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Then tell me this:

    Imagine you wake up tomorrow, and the roles were reversed.

    Suddenly 95% of the world is gay (for the sake of argument ignore the issue of procreation, etc.), that's how it has always been (and in this scenario you wake up knowing and accpeting this; you don't remember what it was like before), and the Bible wrote against being with someone from the opposite sex (in other words, being straight is a sin), and you yourself are still straight, would you choose to act gay to fit in, to do what the Bible says, and/or what peer pressure says? Or would you secretly remain straight while hoping a day would come where the majority of society accepted your lifestyle?

    Think hard about it. I don't believe any straight person would start sleeping with the same sex just to fit in with society if the roles were reversed.


    I would abstain - or at least try to.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Is anyone saying that is right
    I think I posted a decent follow up above to better explain why I brought that out.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think having sex with someone you are not married to is just as bad as having homosexual sex.
    Why? And how bad?
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by PostArtestEra View Post
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    Why? And how bad?
    My religious background teaches me that having sex with someone you are not married to is a sin. My religious background teaches me that having sex with someone who is the same gender as you are us a sin. I don't believe one is worse than the other. However, that doesn't mean if you do get "married" to someone of the same gender that it is OK then to have sex with them.


    How bad? I'd like to answer your question, but I need to know in what context you are asking.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Marriage is essentially a religious institution - the binding together of one man and one woman in a union blessed by God. Even in non-Christian societies marriage, AFAIK ALWAYS involves some sort of spiritual union between a husband and wife. The problem is, the state adopted it and gave it legal standing. IMO the word "marriage" should be stricken from every legal aspect of our country and replaced with the term "Civil Union." A justice of the peace can perform a civil union - it's given legal status for tax, insurance and inheritance purposes. Leave marriages where they belong - in Churches. Of course anyone getting married can also simultaneously become part of a Civil Union. And if a Church (or any religious institution) wants to grant homesexuals a marriage license - have at it.

    That takes religion out of the picture and allows a civil union to be a legal bond created between two people, whatever their race, religion, sex, etc.

    Separation of Church and State is a wonderful foundation on which our nation is based - too bad we ignored it with marriage.
    Absolutely.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    ^^ I agree with this, too. ^^

    Let "marriage" retain the meaning it was given by God. Let individuals do what they want with their own. I'm afraid that means taking the consequences of their choices, but we all face that.

    Los Angeles, I asked you a question back in post #71, and I don't think you gave me a germane answer. I wasn't asking about my habits, but about the the possibility -- the mere possibility -- that some gay people might, purely from an unblunted sense of propriety and privacy -- want to keep their sexuality a private matter.

    I'm not trying to drive a wedge here, but to find common ground.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Actually, the human body is designed in a way that is VERY conducive to homosexual interaction.

    The clitoris is on the outside, not the inside.

    The prostate is easily stimulated from the rectum.

    The human mouth is still a powerful source of stimulation and pleasure regardless of gender.

    The ONLY thing that supports your claim is the potential of conception between opposite sex partners.
    I didn't realize sex was only about pleasure...and that's my point. I feel that sex is for both pleasure between a man and a woman who love eachother..and it is for reproductive purposes. Gay's do it for pleasure only..which isn't what sex is here for...all my opinion of course.

    I guess my point is this: When you can have kids from a blowjob or anal sex, get back to me...however we are getting off topic really bad right now...and I don't want to hijack this thread into a religious thread.

  22. #122

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Nobody has responded to this yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth_for_Pres. View Post
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    Are death threats infringing on anybodys personal freedoms? In fact, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they technically illegal?
    Sure, death threats are wrong and illegal. Not one post in this whole thread justifies or validates any threat or act of violence (I hope).

    I just think we have to be practical-minded enough to see that Amechi can be what he is. It might be right or wrong, or it might be neutral. But he can do it. And Hardaway can say what he said. It is hateful, but he can do it. And people all over the country can judge both of them the way they are doing. Everybody has the same ticket. You can't hate the haters without being a hater yourself.
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  23. #123
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    http://www.outsports.com/ballin/022601.htm

    Don't let Tim see that article! :O

  24. #124
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    As for the marriage discussion, let's get government out of the marriage business altogether. They do not mesh and do not belong together.

    As for the Hardaway comments, he is free to speak his mind in the country. We can all determine if his comments are valid and worthwhile. IMO, they are not.

  25. #125
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    for a black man to be insensitive to a minority sect in society is a shame. Tim Hardaway apologized though but realistically, this is America and that's just how the majority still think deep inside their unguarded selves. Timmy regrets what he said, but only because he said it for the whole nation to hear. i have nothing against any race, religion or preference as long as it's does not deliberately intend to cause harm to others. but hey, ignorance is everywhere.

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