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Thread: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth_for_Pres. View Post
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    Hey, man, you don't have to belittle the guy. He's just making a statement.
    you're right, it was fairly knee-jerk. sorry about that.

    but its a serious question really... why do people pick and choose what the bible supports and condemns? many say the bible says homosexuality is wrong so thats why homosexuals are second-class citizens and should be treated as such.

    "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

    Leviticus 25:44-46 (NIV)

    ~~

    "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."

    Leviticus 25:44-46 (KJV)
    my point is, if you're going to use the bible to defend your dislike for homosexuality shouldn't you also use it to defend your ownership of slaves?

    EDIT: i didn't mean to post yet... my point is that the bible (if you believe in it) is a translation by humans - several times over. so it doesn't take any power away from the religion itself just know that humans are capable of messing things up especially with the number of translations there are when it becomes a long game of telephone
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    It isn't a choice about who someone is attracted to. But it is a choice to act on that attraction.

    Hicks, I'm not suggesting anyone decides to be straight, but they decide to act on it.
    Give me a BREAK! So, if people told you heterosexuality is sinfull/degenerate/whatever ... you will stop having sex with your wife or girlfriend and become a "monk"?

    That's so easy to say for you, your not even close to beying in that position. You are in the luxurious seat.

    I'm a heterosexual male. I don't deny others the right to love someone of the same gender. Why? Because, it is NOT my business and I have NO right to deny them what I myself like to have (loving the person I love, who happens to have another gender) as long as that person doesn't act in a criminal or traumatizing way (for other persons) or brake the basic laws of society.

    People act like there's gays coming out of the (NBA)closet in dozens. It's the first guy to come openly out. That only now ONE person decides to talk about it is what should amaze people. It's 2007 not 1907.

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  3. #78
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Los Angeles, thanks for this post, which confirms my earlier one. We all CAN choose to participate in that culture of fear (and hate) or not.

    But I've got a question for you. Is it also possible that sometimes discretion and privacy lead to keeping quiet, too?

    I've had a whole lot of really good sex in the past 21 years, and I've never talked about it with anyone except my wife. If I were homosexual, I think I would still feel the same about the propriety of privacy as I do now.
    OK, I'll swing at the pitch.

    You already speak openly about your sex life when you don your wedding ring.
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  4. #79

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    avoidingtheclowns,

    I'm lazy, too lazy to quote your post again. haha.

    So i'll try and keep this short and sweet.

    Amachi has every right to write a book. If he can make money off of being the first gay basketball player to come out then hey go for it man. Get that paycheck because you only live once. However, I guess I don't know his opinion, but I know that there are people who wonder why it is such a big deal, well he wrote the book, he knew ESPN would hype it up, he knew it would sell, so that's why he wrote it.

    But my big point is, that some people out there wonder why it is hard for gays to be well gay in sports, and while I think most of it is not their fault I don't see any of them coming out while they are playing. I don't see anyone saying "hey i'm gay what are you going to do about it? not pass me the ball? tell management to trade me?" I believe that if the gay players would stand up for themselves while they are playing and on a team then it would make a difference. If you have fear of what others think than be straight. I don't want to hear any *****ing about well I can't admit i'm gay just look at what Tim Hardaway said. Man who gives a **** what Tim Hardaway thinks? I GUARANTEE you that if a player stood up in the locker room and said something like "i'm gay and ya'll are freaking ugly tall *******s who I would never date." that even if there was a player in that room that didn't like gays he wouldn't stand up and say it because there would be more players that wouldn't care like Charles Barkley than ones that do like Tim Hardaway.

    One thing about MLK and the whole civil rights movements is that he was fighting for equal rights. You know blacks can sit wherever they want ont he bus, go to whatever schools, eat at the same places, use the same bathrooms, drink from the same water fountains, etc. Gays have rights. It's not legal in every state to be married to the same sex however it might as well be. You can eat, sleep, ****, live, and do whatever you want with whoever you want. I guess my whole point is that I don't see the civil rights movement and a gay rights movement (whatever you wanna call it) as the same thing, somewhat but not totally.

    I think that myself, Amachi just wants to make that money. Not becuase he didn't sign a 120 million dollar contract, not because he wasn't a superstar, but just because he can make that money. However I don't look at him as some hero for gays. If he was really and trully all about equal treatment for gays in sports he would have done it when he was playing. In my eyes though, he just wants that money. And hey I don't blame him for wanting that money, I just don't care to have to listen to the whole gays in sports thing. They are out there and so what.

    I guess I didn't keep that short but oh well.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I don't mean to get off topic, but this isn't right.




    Nope. The Bible does not promote slavery.

    Slavery is a human institution that existed before God called Abraham. The Bible acknowledges that slavery exists in a sinful world. That is not promoting it.

    The Bible contains passages that empowered certain western nations to put an end to slavery, which had never happened anywhere else in the non-Christian parts of the world. Read William Wilberforce and William Lloyd Garrison (England's and America's leading abolitionists) and see where their inspiration came from.
    there are passages that say both. my post was knee-jerk and i apologized for it, my point was that if you comb thru the bible you find ways to justify whatever you want to do or believe. it is more about preconceived beliefs than it is about evidence to backup. it led the KKK to form just as it enabled abolitionists to justify their cause. that was my point, and i should have taken the time to actually explain myself.
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  6. #81

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    avoiding the clowns,

    Those verses from Leviticus are instructions to the ancient Hebrews and do not pertain to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by avioding theclowns
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    if you comb thru the bible you find ways to justify whatever you want to do or believe.
    We shouldn't "comb through the Bible." We should read it honestly and wisely. I can't defend anyone who starts with presuppositions, and then snips out the bits that are useful.
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  7. #82
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    QFT.

    At the end of the day, just about every religion known to man frowns upon homosexuality. If god really intended for gay's and lesbians to interact with one another physically, the anatomy of human beings would be different.
    Actually, the human body is designed in a way that is VERY conducive to homosexual interaction.

    The clitoris is on the outside, not the inside.

    The prostate is easily stimulated from the rectum.

    The human mouth is still a powerful source of stimulation and pleasure regardless of gender.

    The ONLY thing that supports your claim is the potential of conception between opposite sex partners.
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  8. #83
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I want to respond to this:
    It is not simply a question of speech.

    The principle of individual liberty on which America was founded means some folks will do things differently and hold different values than others. But I think people today make an assumption that was never there in the beginning, and that is that we will all be happy about each others' decisions and habits.

    If you believe in individual liberty, then you have to equally defend the homosexual and the homophobe. Because each is, in his own way, practicing individual liberty. There is no defense of the one that does not also cover the other.
    I assume you have religious and state marriages in the US. Am I correct in that?

    IF true... then obviously for the state gays don't have the same rights as heterosexuals as state marriages between gays are not allowed in all of the US's states. Correct?

    IF so, I am not sure here, then isn't that in direct violation of the Founding fathers principle of individual liberty and the principle of equality you just mentioned?

    Or is that argument only meant to be used for people who oppose gay state marriages and/or legislation?

    I'm not sure, about all this I simply don't know enough of the US constitution and legal system, but it strikes me as "odd" at best and "preferential" or "discriminatory" to one side at worst.

    Btw interesting discussion!

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    QFT.

    At the end of the day, just about every religion known to man frowns upon homosexuality. If god really intended for gay's and lesbians to interact with one another physically, the anatomy of human beings would be different.
    Maybe religions want to spread themself too? Maybe marriages with couples that can have kids naturally is a good way of doing that? When did these religions come to us and ... do we still do all things the same as we did back then...? Do we still share all of the same values that were "delivered" to us by those religions? Has how we looked at religion remained the same?

    The fact that I am an atheist ... does that mean I have to "suffer" from inequality because of other people's religious rules and values that I don't share yet are somehow part of law?

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    A portion of the ESPN article about Hardaway:

    "Every comment that [Hardaway] made is labeled with hate," Amaechi said. "The percentage of e-mails I've received overnight that are going to have to go into a little box somewhere just in case I end up dead are unbelievable. He's been a lightning rod for people to finally open the floodgates and decide that they can say some pretty awful stuff."


    Are death threats infringing on anybodys personal freedoms? In fact, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they technically illegal?

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Actually, the human body is designed in a way that is VERY conducive to homosexual interaction.

    The clitoris is on the outside, not the inside.

    The prostate is easily stimulated from the rectum.

    The human mouth is still a powerful source of stimulation and pleasure regardless of gender.

    The ONLY thing that supports your claim is the potential of conception between opposite sex partners.
    The #1 goal of sex is to reproduce, not the second, third, or even farther down the list.

    The good feeling of it, is used to promote reproduction, not the reason for it.

    Sex is designed for a man and a woman, or male and female, and is like that for all species that aren't asexual.

  12. #87

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    The #1 goal of sex is to reproduce? Not to get off topic but ****. I'll stop here.

  13. #88
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The #1 goal of sex is to reproduce, not the second, third, or even farther down the list.

    The good feeling of it, is used to promote reproduction, not the reason for it.

    Sex is designed for a man and a woman, or male and female, and is like that for all species that aren't asexual.
    Explain kissing to me.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Explain kissing to me.
    It's not entirely sexual in nature...
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    There's only two things I can't stand in this world, people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. (Austin Powers)



    Also I hate anti-dentites, next they'll be saying dentists should have their own schools!
    (Seinfeld)


    http://www.theonion.com/content/news..._out_as_former


    That would be my take on this.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Explain kissing to me.
    Are lips (on your face) genitals?

    sexual intercourse
    –noun genital contact, esp. the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...%20intercourse

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Yet gay people are still told that they are unwelcome to kiss in public.

    Fascinating.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyPacer View Post
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    There's only two things I can't stand in this world, people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.



    Also I hate anti-dentites, next they'll be saying dentists should have their own schools!


    http://www.theonion.com/content/news..._out_as_former


    That would be my take on this.

  19. #94
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Yet gay people are still told that they are unwelcome to kiss in public.

    Fascinating.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Really? Well by all means you are allowed too, actually ... sounds like a compliment to me.
    He was quoting Austin Powers, albeit without quotations or references to who said it...
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    He was quoting Austin Powers, albeit without quotations or references to who said it...
    Ah, ok... thanks for pointing that out... I had better delete my initial response then .
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Yet gay people are still told that they are unwelcome to kiss in public.

    Fascinating.
    Many people don't like straight people kissing in public either. Damn heterophobes.
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Ah, ok... thanks for pointing that out... I had better delete my initial response then .
    You're welcome. :antiorangedutchsmilie:
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    Many people don't like straight people kissing in public either. Damn heterophobes.
    Do straight people who kiss in public get rocks thrown at them? Do they get beaten up, sometimes to death? Do they have slurs hurled at them out of car windows? Are they spit on?
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    You're welcome. :antiorangedutchsmilie:



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