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Thread: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    I'm with UB on this one. I hate plenty of people, black, white, yellow, gay, straight, whatever... Not because of what color or gender or sexual preference, but mostly because they annoy me. I guess you could say that I'm intolerant of annoying people, but then again, I don't really care.


  2. #27

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Anyone can hate a certain group of people if they want to. I happen to hate drug dealers and those who buy the drugs from the drug dealers. I hate that group of people. Am I being intolerant? I don't know and I don't care. it isn't like I'm going around town looking for them to beat them up or anything. So if Tim wants to hate gays, that is fine as long he doesn't inflict any harm to them or cause others to to any harm.

    FlavaDave, your slogan "Intolerance is never acceptable" might look good on a bumper sticker - but in the real word it holds no real meaning

    Do you really think drug dealers and homosexuals are analogous categories? Dealing drugs is an illegal, harmful activity; homosexuality is a legal character trait. How can they compare?

    How would you feel about this:

    "You know, I hate white people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like white people and I don't like to be around white people. I am a racist. I don't like it. They shouldn't be in the world or in the United States. I wouldn't want white people on my team."


    Would you feel the same way? Or is your attitude towards this statement colored by your own feelings toward homosexuals?

  3. #28

    Default Re: Tim Hardaway hates gay people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamboubou View Post
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    They are entitled to live their own lifestyle, he is entitled to his own opinion of their lifestyle. Not sure whats so hard about that to understand for some people.
    Why is being homophobic simply someone's opinion, but being racist is vile and wrong?

    I know the pat answer, nobody CHOOSES their race, and some of you actually believe that at a certain age a person actually DECIDES whether to be attracted to women or whether to be attracted to men.

    Please tell me exactly when you chose your sexual preference.

    Also tell me why would anyone choose a preference that brings open hatred like Hardaway's.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    I hate sunshine brigaders. And yes, I know I used to be one. I have issues.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Tim Hardaway hates gay people.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Intolerance is never acceptable.
    Sounds pretty intolerant of you...

  6. #31

    Default Re: Tim Hardaway hates gay people.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    Sounds pretty intolerant of you...

    I was wondering how long it would be before someone pointed that out.


    Look, I know that it's okay for people to say what they want. First Amendment and all that. And it's true that Timmy can say what he wants. And in fact, he did. On ESPN radio. And he won't go to jail, he won't get fined. He will live his life as it was. That's the beauty of America. This much is obvious.

    That's why it is so shocking for me to see people on this board defend his freedom of speech. Clearly, we all are in favor of freedom of speech. So why are people tripping over themselves to defend a right that isn't under attack?

    Because what they are really defending is the sentiment that Hardaway expressed.


    The issue isn't that he had the right to say what he did. The issue is that he said something vile, disgusting, and wrong.

    Do we all agree that the Constitution is still a good thing? Yes? Okay, let's move on and discuss what he actually said.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Tim Hardaway hates gay people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Did Aemechi make a huge deal about it or is the intolerance this high amongst NBA players that however way he would have made it public he would have gotten some very negative reactions... I'm betting on that second option.
    I'm not. He made the big announcement in timing with his book being published. I think it was very deliberate.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Flavadave - I respect what you are doing on this thread man. It is really easy to be silent and let bigotry run its course. ESPECIALLY the subtle and aversive bigotry going on here.

    UB - You can't compare a crime with an ascribed condition... although yours was a counter argument to the civil rights movement.

    Will - So what you are saying is that we should acknowledge you for tolerating immorality?

    Shamboubou - You are right about being entitled to ones opinions. However, when our opinions call for making a group structurally inferior to other groups (like in current politics, and the views of Hardaway), your freedom to opinion becomes open to claims against you by those you would oppress. What so hard to understand about that?

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Tim Hardaway hates gay people.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    I'm not. He made the big announcement in timing with his book being published. I think it was very deliberate.


    ESPN is in the middle of this, since they are the ones who are publishing Amaechi's book and the ones drumming up all the hype and controversy surrounding this whole thing.
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  10. #35
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth_for_Pres. View Post
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    UB, I think equating drug dealers to gay people is a little inaccurate. I also think that it is irresponsible to say that these kinds of statements can't result in harm to others. No, I don't think blanket tolerance of everyone is a reasonable or safe way to try to live with each other but you have to call a spade a spade. Hate for hates sake can't be right.


    OK, I hate people who wear bow ties - it just looks silly and I hate those people. Is that benign enough for you

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Do you really think drug dealers and homosexuals are analogous categories? Dealing drugs is an illegal, harmful activity; homosexuality is a legal character trait. How can they compare?

    How would you feel about this:

    "You know, I hate white people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like white people and I don't like to be around white people. I am a racist. I don't like it. They shouldn't be in the world or in the United States. I wouldn't want white people on my team."


    Would you feel the same way? Or is your attitude towards this statement colored by your own feelings toward homosexuals?

    Nice try, but I was in no way equating gays with drug dealers. And you know that. If hardaway says he hates white people, I don't care - if he comes to my house and beats me up because I'm white then I care.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, I hate people who wear bow ties - it just looks silly and I hate those people. Is that benign enough for you
    I bet you're lactose intolerant too...
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  13. #38

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, I hate people who wear bow ties - it just looks silly and I hate those people. Is that benign enough for you

    No, people with bowties are annoying to you. Would you vote to deny the right of marriage to people with bowties? Would you deny the existance of your son because your kid wears bowties? Would you refuse to work with anyone who wears bowties, and intimidate anyone who wears bowties into silence?

    Because I have a feeling that Hardaway would do all of the above to homosexuals. And his statement left no room to think otherwise.

    Bowties annoy you. Tim Hardaway HATES gays.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Tim Hardaway hates gay people.

    Why is being homophobic simply someone's opinion, but being racist is vile and wrong?

    I know the pat answer, nobody CHOOSES their race, and some of you actually believe that at a certain age a person actually DECIDES whether to be attracted to women or whether to be attracted to men.

    Please tell me exactly when you chose your sexual preference.

    Also tell me why would anyone choose a preference that brings open hatred like Hardaway's.
    I hate to quote myself, but I would like for someone to give me a reason why I should be more accepting of the viewpoint of Tim Hardaway than I would be of, say, some white supremacist.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    I bet you're lactose intolerant too...
    Hahahaha...there are so many Milk-Haters out there it's incredible...

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Anyone watch Friday Night Lights last night? They had a comparable situation. If anyone did see it, I'll share a little story with you guys.
    Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

  17. #42

    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2766213

    Stern:

    It is inappropriate for him to be representing us given the disparity between his views and ours.
    Amachi:

    Finally, someone who is honest. It is ridiculous, absurb, petty, bigoted and shows a lack of empathy that is gargantuan and unfathomable. But it is honest. And it illustrates the problem better than any of the fuzzy language other people have used so far.
    Hardaway:

    Yes, I regret it. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said I hate gay people or anything like that, that was my mistake.
    You know this doesn't have anything to do with Hardaway's comments but is anyone else sick and tired of hearing about this?

    I mean Amachi has done more interviews now then he did when he was playing. He was just a role player on his best days. The casual fan didn't know anything about him.

    I'm sure there are some people who wonder why being gay is made such a big deal and why they can't just be treated like normal people, well it's because they have to wirte some book and come out on Valentimes day and make there i'm gay announcement some historical event. You don't see any straight people doing that.

    I don't agree with being gay but I also don't care. And I also don't care to turn on the TV and have to listen to everyones opinion about the matter 20 times.

    Amachi can be gay, that is his right. However I am just a littled annoyed by all the talk about it and annoyed by the fact that Amachi made it a big deal by the way he did it. He said he wanted to tell the whole story so people can get his real thoughts. Bull. He just saw money for him and so he captalized on it. If he can make some money here then good for him, it still annoys me though that I have to hear that subject discussed all the freakin time.

  18. #43
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    Amachi can be gay, that is his right. However I am just a littled annoyed by all the talk about it and annoyed by the fact that Amachi made it a big deal by the way he did it. He said he wanted to tell the whole story so people can get his real thoughts. Bull. He just saw money for him and so he captalized on it. If he can make some money here then good for him, it still annoys me though that I have to hear that subject discussed all the freakin time.
    That was my only real problem with it. Hardaway would have never been asked this question had Amachi not publicly come out and make a huge deal about it to the media. Sure, Hardaway is an idiot for saying that..but he's entitled to that opinion just as Amachi is entitled to being gay.

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    Anyone watch Friday Night Lights last night? They had a comparable situation. If anyone did see it, I'll share a little story with you guys.
    No don't tell me I haven't seen it yet. It is by far my favorite show though, every episode is better than the last.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No don't tell me I haven't seen it yet. It is by far my favorite show though, every episode is better than the next
    Doesn't that mean the show's quality is rapidly decreasing?
    Narf!

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2766213

    Stern:



    Amachi:



    Hardaway:



    You know this doesn't have anything to do with Hardaway's comments but is anyone else sick and tired of hearing about this?

    I mean Amachi has done more interviews now then he did when he was playing. He was just a role player on his best days. The casual fan didn't know anything about him.

    I'm sure there are some people who wonder why being gay is made such a big deal and why they can't just be treated like normal people, well it's because they have to wirte some book and come out on Valentimes day and make there i'm gay announcement some historical event. You don't see any straight people doing that.

    I don't agree with being gay but I also don't care. And I also don't care to turn on the TV and have to listen to everyones opinion about the matter 20 times.

    Amachi can be gay, that is his right. However I am just a littled annoyed by all the talk about it and annoyed by the fact that Amachi made it a big deal by the way he did it. He said he wanted to tell the whole story so people can get his real thoughts. Bull. He just saw money for him and so he captalized on it. If he can make some money here then good for him, it still annoys me though that I have to hear that subject discussed all the freakin time.

    Amen

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Robobtowncolt View Post
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    Doesn't that mean the show's quality is rapidly decreasing?
    I knew something wasn't quite right about it

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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, I hate people who wear bow ties - it just looks silly and I hate those people. Is that benign enough for you
    Your use of 'drug dealers' isn't the issue.
    The point is Tim Hardaway didn't say,'My mom and dad were murdered by a roving gang of sociopathic homosexuals and that's why I hate gay people.' He said that he hates gay people because... well, he just hates them. Is that right to you?
    I know, you don't care as long as someone doesn't get hurt. What if they do? Is that what is necessary to justify what he said as wrong? Basicly it sounds like your saying that as long as it doesn't show up on my doorstep than it's of no consequence to anyone.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2766213

    Stern:



    Amachi:



    Hardaway:



    You know this doesn't have anything to do with Hardaway's comments but is anyone else sick and tired of hearing about this?

    I mean Amachi has done more interviews now then he did when he was playing. He was just a role player on his best days. The casual fan didn't know anything about him.

    I'm sure there are some people who wonder why being gay is made such a big deal and why they can't just be treated like normal people, well it's because they have to wirte some book and come out on Valentimes day and make there i'm gay announcement some historical event. You don't see any straight people doing that.

    I don't agree with being gay but I also don't care. And I also don't care to turn on the TV and have to listen to everyones opinion about the matter 20 times.

    Amachi can be gay, that is his right. However I am just a littled annoyed by all the talk about it and annoyed by the fact that Amachi made it a big deal by the way he did it. He said he wanted to tell the whole story so people can get his real thoughts. Bull. He just saw money for him and so he captalized on it. If he can make some money here then good for him, it still annoys me though that I have to hear that subject discussed all the freakin time.
    WHOA WHOA WHOA Hold up.

    did Amachi make a big deal about this? or the ESPN publicity machine. Amachi booked himself on talkshows or interviews? no, ESPN's publicity would. just like actors who promote their movies, they go on to promote, which most studios / companies make actors and directors do. and authors are the same. do you think Amachi begged for the book to be released 2/14? please. that was ESPN.

    Amachi is a gay man in professional team sports. he is the first NBA player to actually come out. you know what, yes its a big story and ESPN recognized that. its a big story because he's the first and then people have to ask athletes how they would feel if 'a gay' were playing on their team. the only reason someone like tim hardaway gets asked his opinion is because Amachi is the first, its not like they're coming out of the closet left and right. its not like Amachi did this after someone else came out to capitalize cause he's gay too. why can't he tell his story? he deserves that as much as anybody who choses to write one. the problem is also the bigotry in professional sports that continues to put this story out there adn ESPN for both promoting it and maybe provoking it. if it wasn't a big deal no one would care. but players who are asked how they feel talk about "not bringing their gayness on me" (paraphrased from Randolph in PHILLY) and lebron talks about that teammate not being trustworthy. a gay player is going to hide it BECAUSE of people like tim hardaway so why would he make that known publicly?

    heres a big question: how is the hype around this truly any different from the tony/lovie black coaches storyline of the superbowl? the only difference is that hatred of homosexuality is still an acceptable form of bigotry. a black coach winning the superbowl was historic but a basketball player coming out is just for headlines? would this be different if Amachi had a long NBA career? what if instead tim hardaway came out and said he was gay? what if it was a current NBA player? would it matter if it was david harrison or danny granger or jermaine o'neal and they wrote a book that was published by ESPN and on valentines day?
    This is the darkest timeline.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Hardaway's Comments on Homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    No, people with bowties are annoying to you. Would you vote to deny the right of marriage to people with bowties? Would you deny the existance of your son because your kid wears bowties? Would you refuse to work with anyone who wears bowties, and intimidate anyone who wears bowties into silence?

    Because I have a feeling that Hardaway would do all of the above to homosexuals. And his statement left no room to think otherwise.

    Bowties annoy you. Tim Hardaway HATES gays.
    So basically you hate the idea that people can vote the way they want to?

    Does it really matter if he would vote that way? No, that's HIS vote and his right.

    I don't like the idea of people voting in favor of homosexual marriages, unions I could live with, but not marriages.

    You can think he's bigoted all you'd like. But your preaching about how bigoted he is, or his opinion is, probably isn't going to do anything for anyone. All it does is cement your position, and his, at the same time.

    He has the right to have that opinion. You have the right to dislike that opinion. I have the right to agree with whomever I would like to agree with.

    Until he acts upon that opinion, and commits a crime, why does it matter to you? People's opinions on a lot of things hurt people's feelings. The world is never going to agree on one singular topic.

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