This has been brought up in a couple of different threads lately, and I think most commonly when discussing why Tinsley is asked to shoot so much. I know I've been saying that the issue is that really only Tinsley and Quis are able to do this since Jack was traded.
So Mark M's latest piece on Daniels gets right to that point and I think he nails the situation...
This is exactly what I've been saying, esp. regarding Tins. Back in the Foster shooting thread I even mentioned that Tins was the other guy that had a knack for missing stuff right at the rim. Since then Foster's really fixed the problem, but Tins continues to frustrate us with it, typically in the 4th quarter (does he run out of gas on his shots?).
Mark's bit is on how crafty Quis is. I'm sticking with "Barry Sanders" due to all his horizontal movement, some backstepping, and all sorts of moves that don't really seem to be going toward the basket until he's suddenly almost there.
He never really gets all the way clean though. He always has to pull up just short, make some quirky little jumper or a dish. But it's extremely effective. And as Mark's quote (and the article) point out, this might be the most needed aspect for the current offense.
People have piled on Rick for forcing Tins to shoot, but my point has been that perhaps it's not that Rick is calling Tinsley's number to shoot, but rather calling his number to break down the defense and get a shot HE CAN MAKE or to create defensive movement that frees up someone else. In this case it becomes a matter of execution rather than philosophy.
Passing alone will never break a defense down, and we saw examples of this for most of Reggie's final year. Players would "drive" all of about 3-4 feet inside the arc and then rotate the ball to the next guy standing behind the arc. This would go on for 20 seconds before someone would take a 3 (some nights it got to 30 attempts!) or a long 2. That's what passing only gets you. This isn't the NCAA, you need more.
That's why a post threat is so critical and why JO sees so many touches. It's also why you absolutely have to have a couple of threats to go off dribble starting from a point where you aren't open. In other words, not Granger getting the pass with his man already in rotation enough that he has space to step by for the driving dunk.
With Quis out this lack stood out all the more and I think that's where you saw Tinsley's shot attempts go way up. My blame lay on him for not finishing the PLAY. If you are making them then keep taking them, but otherwise make sure that something productive comes out of getting so much closer to the rim. That's where the offense struggled. Some of the blame can fall on a guy like DunDun and his cold shooting (till the last 2 games) because he was getting open off of these plays, but certainly not all of it.
I've been very down on their chances after the 3 nasty home losses (NY, GS, SEA), but I have to admit that in fairness the lack of Quis was probably hurting the team a lot more than his stats indicate. To me Quis and Foster are both doing things for the team that are impacting the game a lot more than the stats (hey, I did start the Quis=McKey thread long ago because of this view).
The reason? Both create MOVEMENT issues for the defense, in that they force the defense to react and adjust because of where they get on the floor. Jeff at the boards of course, getting around a block out (seriously, he's one of the best in the NBA at this) and Quis by taking zero space and turning it into just enough of a crack to get things going. Greasing an offense that grinds to a halt otherwise. (btw, this is why Jack was given the ball so often too, and Fred despite his right-only ability and desire to jump and pass to the opponents half the time)
So I guess I'm willing to reconsider how good this team is by seeing how they look with both Quis and JO playing decent minutes over the next 3 weeks (god I hope they are actually able to play decent minutes over the next 3 weeks). I need 3 because I need to see it beyond the soft schedule.
And for the long term I'd like to see them acquire another player who is actually strong at creating off the dribble. Danny and Shawne are not going to become those types of players it seems, though I think some fans see DG as this. I consider that overvaluing how good he is off the dribble (right now, not so hot).
So Mark M's latest piece on Daniels gets right to that point and I think he nails the situation...
It helps the Pacers, because Daniels is one of their few perimeter players who can break down a defense.
Jamaal Tinsley can, but he doesn't finish as well as Daniels. Darrell Armstrong is quick enough, but his lack of height makes it difficult for him to get shots.
Jamaal Tinsley can, but he doesn't finish as well as Daniels. Darrell Armstrong is quick enough, but his lack of height makes it difficult for him to get shots.
Mark's bit is on how crafty Quis is. I'm sticking with "Barry Sanders" due to all his horizontal movement, some backstepping, and all sorts of moves that don't really seem to be going toward the basket until he's suddenly almost there.
He never really gets all the way clean though. He always has to pull up just short, make some quirky little jumper or a dish. But it's extremely effective. And as Mark's quote (and the article) point out, this might be the most needed aspect for the current offense.
People have piled on Rick for forcing Tins to shoot, but my point has been that perhaps it's not that Rick is calling Tinsley's number to shoot, but rather calling his number to break down the defense and get a shot HE CAN MAKE or to create defensive movement that frees up someone else. In this case it becomes a matter of execution rather than philosophy.
Passing alone will never break a defense down, and we saw examples of this for most of Reggie's final year. Players would "drive" all of about 3-4 feet inside the arc and then rotate the ball to the next guy standing behind the arc. This would go on for 20 seconds before someone would take a 3 (some nights it got to 30 attempts!) or a long 2. That's what passing only gets you. This isn't the NCAA, you need more.
That's why a post threat is so critical and why JO sees so many touches. It's also why you absolutely have to have a couple of threats to go off dribble starting from a point where you aren't open. In other words, not Granger getting the pass with his man already in rotation enough that he has space to step by for the driving dunk.
With Quis out this lack stood out all the more and I think that's where you saw Tinsley's shot attempts go way up. My blame lay on him for not finishing the PLAY. If you are making them then keep taking them, but otherwise make sure that something productive comes out of getting so much closer to the rim. That's where the offense struggled. Some of the blame can fall on a guy like DunDun and his cold shooting (till the last 2 games) because he was getting open off of these plays, but certainly not all of it.
I've been very down on their chances after the 3 nasty home losses (NY, GS, SEA), but I have to admit that in fairness the lack of Quis was probably hurting the team a lot more than his stats indicate. To me Quis and Foster are both doing things for the team that are impacting the game a lot more than the stats (hey, I did start the Quis=McKey thread long ago because of this view).
The reason? Both create MOVEMENT issues for the defense, in that they force the defense to react and adjust because of where they get on the floor. Jeff at the boards of course, getting around a block out (seriously, he's one of the best in the NBA at this) and Quis by taking zero space and turning it into just enough of a crack to get things going. Greasing an offense that grinds to a halt otherwise. (btw, this is why Jack was given the ball so often too, and Fred despite his right-only ability and desire to jump and pass to the opponents half the time)
So I guess I'm willing to reconsider how good this team is by seeing how they look with both Quis and JO playing decent minutes over the next 3 weeks (god I hope they are actually able to play decent minutes over the next 3 weeks). I need 3 because I need to see it beyond the soft schedule.
And for the long term I'd like to see them acquire another player who is actually strong at creating off the dribble. Danny and Shawne are not going to become those types of players it seems, though I think some fans see DG as this. I consider that overvaluing how good he is off the dribble (right now, not so hot).