Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

    For a Christmas present, my girlfriend got me and her son Pacers tickets for any game we wanted. As he is a big Carmelo Anthony fan, he picked the Denver game as the one he wanted to see. Since I hadnt been to a game live all season due to my horrendous work schedule, it was nice to finally make it up to Conseco again to see my beloved Pacers. Im just now finding time to post my observations from the game for all my friends on Pacers Digest. Here is what I saw or thought about while watching the game:

    -I had read on here that the Pacer fans were booing Jamal Tinsley since the night at 8 seconds, but I didnt really hear how loud it was until I was there to experience it in person. To be honest with you, I dont really know what I feel about that....I dont like Jamal as a player defensively at all, and he is taking way more shots than I like, but I still dont know if Id boo my own teams players that way. Im conflicted on that issue, but I do know now for sure that the Pacers have no choice, their fanbase is demanding that Jamal is gone, and I think he will be as soon as Larry and Donnie find a deal that doesnt completely screw us. I also wonder if the fans booing effects the play and spirit of the staff and roster.

    -Its clear Indianapolis is a Colts town now. Even at the Pacers game itself, there were many more Colts jackets, hats, sweatshirts, etc etc than Pacers gear. I understand it as Im a huge Colts fan myself, but the Pacers will always be number one in my book, as I grew up that way. However, kids right now are making sports decisions that some will stick with their entire life, and I wonder if the Pacers truly realize how bad the long term damage is on their fanbase and its future with the personnel weve put on the court in the last couple of years. Clearly, something has to change in that regard before the Pacers lose too much ground in the city.

    -Until I saw it live and could view the entire floor, I didnt realize what a hindrance Jeff Foster is to a teams half court offense. I admit, I have no idea as a coach how to use Jeff offensively, and neither does Rick. RC had Jeff setting a multitude of "ball screens" for Tinsley and others, and they had absolutely no effect whatsoever. His screens are poor, but more than that his man just switches on the ballhandler until the original defender can recover, and since Jeff is such a non threat there is no chance of throwing it back to Jeff and getting anything out of it. Since Jeff is a very poor away from the ball screener too, and he can't shoot, handle the ball, pass, or post up, I have no clue other than an offensive rebound what he is capable of doing to help a team play offense. Maybe somebody can coach a way to have him help us, but that person isnt me.

    -Ike Diogu reminds me of a scene from the movie "major league". The scene Im thinking of is when Pedro Cerrano is killing fastballs for home runs in batting practice, and the manager says something like "this guy hits a ton, why hasnt anyone else picked him up?" Then they throw curves to him, see him swing wildly and miss, and the manager goes "oh s--t". Thats the way Ike reacts to a doubleteam in the post. As long as he draws single coverage he can play, but if he is doubled at all he isnt big enough to see over it or a good enough passer to pass out of it. He is very very raw.

    -We all want Danny Granger to be a defensive stopper, but he isn't. He is an average defender at best, at least right now. Its too much for us to ask him to both guard the opponents best player and try and contribute 20 points a night. With the Pacers roster configuration he has to guard the opponents best wings, but he isnt ready for it yet. Getting a guy who can do that so Danny doesnt have to needs to be a major offseason project for the Pacers, in my judgment.

    -From where I sat, I didnt think the officials were as bad as I read on here and heard from my family afterwards. I thought Jermaine flopped on the play where RC blew up and was tossed. Im not sure what happened to Darrell, but I do know he was working the official hard during the timeout instead of running back to the huddle.

    -Speaking of RC and Joey Crawford, Rick clearly got tossed from that game on purpose in my view. Everyone in basketball knows Crawford is the quickest tempered official in the league, I even told my girlfriends son that before the game. RC went onto the floor after Crawford, instead of the official underneath who actually was nearer the play. I think it was a premeditaded decision to try and inspire his team, unfortunately I think the Pacers are beyond inspiration, at least for this night anyway.

    -Jermaine is clearly hurting. He had no quickness or explosion, and had no legs on his jumpshot. He has such a laid back expression and method of playing, and seemed to me to lack enthusiasm. Actually, aside from Darrell Armstrong our entire team is that way. I wish we played with more enthusiasm as a group, and JO in particularly. Sometimes, I wonder if JO is just numb from all the drama and nonsense and changes the Pacers seem to keep experiencing.

    -Conseco is still a wonderful place to watch a game, and I fall in love with it more each and every time I'm there. I do sometimes wonder though if its TOO nice, and lacks atmosphere inside the arena.....its easy to just get comfortable and watch the game, instead of cheering and yelling like you should be.

    -Believe it or not, I think this Pacers team needs to get out of town and on the road soon. The atmosphere of the city isnt conducive to winning right now for them, and they need to get out of town away from the distractions and bond together better. Maybe the All Star break will recharge their batteries and make them come back more focused, I dont know.

    -Im not panicking about this team. Through the ups and downs, we clearly remain a midlevel Eastern Conference team that is learning how to play together. We arent good enough yet to worry about a championship, we just need to continue to play and get better so we can hopefully peak in March and advance as far as we can. In the offseason, we can reevaluate our team and make decisions then. Until then, we need to all as fans quit panicking after every loss, and quit thinking we've turned the corner after every win. It's a long season fans, now is not the time to abandon ship or give up yet. I can promise you this....if we get to the playoffs healthy, there are many teams in the east who dont want to play us.

    -Off season priorities: A positive force at point guard who plays defense and has leadership qualities, a defensive wing player who can start (Marquis might be the guy, but the jury is still out), and a settled roster that whoever coaches it next season can mesh together and coach it to play the right way.

    As always, just my opinion.

    Tbird

  • #2
    Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

    Nice thread Tbird, thanks.
    Avatar photo credit: Bahram Mark Sobhani - AP

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

      Going back to my notes I took (yes, Im nerdy that way) here are a few more:

      -We need to post up Tinsley more, and play him with his back to the basket. He doesnt have the vertical spring necessary nor the blow by speed to get past anyone and take the shots he is taking. However, his clever passing skills and brute strength can be used if he is playing with his back to the goal. To my memory, he only got to post up once in this game....and this led directly to a very nice pass to the same side corner for a wide open made 3 pointer by Danny Granger. RC needs to get more imaginative in how he is using Tinsley offensively, and/or Tinsley when he is driving to the basket needs to turn his back to the defender and use post moves to score/create, since he can't get past his man, or lift enough to get a jump shot over the front of the rim.

      -I found it fascinating that Donnie and Bird sit so close to one another (Bird sits in the row behind him) but yet they never talk to each other during the game. I also was fascinated by all the autographs Bird signs during the games, and by the fact that Larry seemed to be in conversation with what appeared to be just a normal fan who happened to be sitting behind him. In the least, whomever this was was dressed like a fan, wearing a blue sweatshirt and jeans. I looked over at Bird often during the game, especially to see his reactions to various calls or in the 2 ejections, and saw nothing other than him chatting with the this guy behind him. Donnie just looked like he had some bad fish before game time by the expressions he wore throughout the game.

      -I worry about RC a little, in that I think its possible some of the key players are tuning him out. I've coached teams that had seasons like the Pacers are having, and I understand his frustration level, I really do. I totally agree with what I read in another thread about whether the players have totally "bought in" to RC. I know for sure that unless a team truly believes up and down its roster what its coach is doing is right, that it can poison the entire roster, and I wonder about that with us. The players have got to buy what RC is selling, from JO all the way to the 15th guy, and I dont know if thats happened.

      -I really enjoyed seeing Doug Moe on the Denver sideline. I had to explain to my girlfriends son who he was, and how fast of a pace his Nuggest team used to play at. He is too used to teams struggling to crack 90 points, like our current Pacers team.....he didnt believe there once was an NBA where teams scored 120 plus almost every night.

      -Whomever signed "Nene" to a huge contract is nuts. He was so bad in this game offensively it was almost comical. He might have the worst contract in the NBA. By the way, he used to have a last name of "Hilario" didn't he? I always thought you had to reach a certain level of achievement to have the nerve to be known by just one name :"Cher", "Madonna", "Pele"....what the crap has "Nene" ever done besides commit a bunch of charging fouls and take bad shots?

      -The Pacers opening video on the big screen is funny looking and silly. The video of a too serious Dunleavy dribbling, and the expression Carlisle has in his video is ridiculous. Whoever came up with that needs to be traded along with Tinsley.

      Tbird

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

        Why do I always feel the need to defend Jeff. But I certainly enjoy it. Keep in mind the Nuggets play an extremely unusual defense. They are the only team in the NBA that switches everything, they stunt, they double team the post, they are tryiung to create turnovers. So my point is using the Denver game as a gauge as to how Jeff effects our offense isn't a fair game because of the unusual defense the Nugs play.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

          Nice thoughts, tbird.

          To answer your question about Nene, him dropping his last name is part of his cultural background, not a declaration of celebrity status.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

            Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
            Why do I always feel the need to defend Jeff. But I certainly enjoy it. Keep in mind the Nuggets play an extremely unusual defense. They are the only team in the NBA that switches everything, they stunt, they double team the post, they are tryiung to create turnovers. So my point is using the Denver game as a gauge as to how Jeff effects our offense isn't a fair game because of the unusual defense the Nugs play.

            I dont want this to be a thread about Jeff Foster by itself, since there already plenty of those, but.....

            UB, if you were somehow coaching the Pacers, please tell me how you'd use or hide Jeff offensively? While I understand that the Nuggest do do some different things defensively from a strategic standpoint, and I also understand what Jeff brings to the table in other areas, I just simply dont see a way to use him at all in the half court from an offensive perspective.

            I know there are those of you who think he screens well, but I promise you he doesnt.....neither for the ballhandler or away from the ball. And since screening is the one thing he theoretically SHOULD do well, I dont know what else to do with him in the half court offensively...its a major coaching problem I dont think RC or anyone else has ever solved. He can't stretch the defense any since he can't shoot, he isnt a particularly good passer, screening is a problem, he can't post up....other than stick him in a corner away from the ball I can't figure out what to do with him. And sticking him in the corner away from the ball isnt going to work since that takes him away from doing the one thing he can do, which is offensive rebound.

            To UB: If you were coaching the Pacers, how would you use Jeff in the half court offense in a way that would be somewhat effective? I can't figure out a way myself.....

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

              Originally posted by Hicks View Post
              Nice thoughts, tbird.

              To answer your question about Nene, him dropping his last name is part of his cultural background, not a declaration of celebrity status.

              Just to add, Nene is Brazilian. A lot of soccer players do it, too (i.e. Ronaldo).

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

                Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                I dont want this to be a thread about Jeff Foster by itself, since there already plenty of those, but.....

                UB, if you were somehow coaching the Pacers, please tell me how you'd use or hide Jeff offensively? While I understand that the Nuggest do do some different things defensively from a strategic standpoint, and I also understand what Jeff brings to the table in other areas, I just simply dont see a way to use him at all in the half court from an offensive perspective.

                I know there are those of you who think he screens well, but I promise you he doesnt.....neither for the ballhandler or away from the ball. And since screening is the one thing he theoretically SHOULD do well, I dont know what else to do with him in the half court offensively...its a major coaching problem I dont think RC or anyone else has ever solved. He can't stretch the defense any since he can't shoot, he isnt a particularly good passer, screening is a problem, he can't post up....other than stick him in a corner away from the ball I can't figure out what to do with him. And sticking him in the corner away from the ball isnt going to work since that takes him away from doing the one thing he can do, which is offensive rebound.

                To UB: If you were coaching the Pacers, how would you use Jeff in the half court offense in a way that would be somewhat effective? I can't figure out a way myself.....


                I only have a few minutes because I'm leaving for the pacers game. Let me give this some more thought and I give some other ideas. I do however thing Rick uses him very well. If you notice whenever Jeff gets the ball he does a nice job passing quickly - he willingly reverses the ball and then if you notice he then goes straight towards the basket on the weakside because usually by this time JO has the ball in the low post. And teams scramble to get a body on Jeff when a shot is taken. I've noticed that whenever JO has the ball probably 95% of the time Jeff is near the opposite box getting into rebounding position. Jeff is never feeding the post - and rightfully so because that would be an easy and quick double team. Murphy fees the post though. So the coahcing staff has adjusted the plays to Murph and Jeff.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

                  Didn't Donnie and Bird used to sit together? I noticed them sitting in separate rows at a game too.

                  -Bball
                  Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                  ------

                  "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                  -John Wooden

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

                    Yes, they used to sit next to each other.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

                      -Its clear Indianapolis is a Colts town now. Even at the Pacers game itself, there were many more Colts jackets, hats, sweatshirts, etc etc than Pacers gear. I understand it as Im a huge Colts fan myself, but the Pacers will always be number one in my book, as I grew up that way. However, kids right now are making sports decisions that some will stick with their entire life, and I wonder if the Pacers truly realize how bad the long term damage is on their fanbase and its future with the personnel weve put on the court in the last couple of years. Clearly, something has to change in that regard before the Pacers lose too much ground in the city.
                      I think you are overreading into this. Yes, it is a Colts town even at Pacers games, but they just won the city's first major sports league championship, one without the asterick of the ABA titles. It's been a week, people just spent money to get geared up.

                      I wear my Colts jacket to Pacers games all the time, even after they lost to PIT last year. And for Manning's 49 TD game vs SD I wore my Pacers Xmas cap I got at the game the night before. Fans thought it was Charger colors (sad that people don't get that two teams are in town).

                      thats the way Ike reacts to a doubleteam in the post. As long as he draws single coverage he can play, but if he is doubled at all he isnt big enough to see over it or a good enough passer to pass out of it. He is very very raw.
                      Gnome and I discussed this at both the GS and SEA games. So it's not just one person's opinion or just a bad night vs DEN. It's a problem. Vs SEA he threw one of his passes 8 feet out of bounds, just nowhere near a Pacer at all. That's panic.

                      Didn't Donnie and Bird used to sit together? I noticed them sitting in separate rows at a game too.
                      I thought Walsh always sat next to one of the Simons. Bird is often found in the tunnel standing near DW's seat, but I thought it was rare that LB and DW sat next to each other.


                      Foster - TBird, Jeff is used well in the offense at times. His thing is not screens as you noted. He's not a threat on the PnR so it isn't effective. But he is very good at weakside cuts to the lane from high or baseline (baseline on post doubles especially), he's a great transition trailer (strong finisher). He's a decent passer, not a good end target. So a PnR where the goal is to move the ball to weakside motion off the PnR is where he works much better.

                      When I put up the "Foster shooting" thread one of the reasons was that he was missing layups that came from the offensive flow (ie, not an O-rebound). They can get him 4-5 good looks per game, partly because teams will leave him and he's smart enough to make them pay by going to the rim.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

                        They'd had seats next to each other since 03-04 but Larry sometimes prefers standing in the tunnel. This is the first year their seats aren't next to each other.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

                          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                          -Im not panicking about this team. Through the ups and downs, we clearly remain a midlevel Eastern Conference team that is learning how to play together. We arent good enough yet to worry about a championship, we just need to continue to play and get better so we can hopefully peak in March and advance as far as we can. In the offseason, we can reevaluate our team and make decisions then. Until then, we need to all as fans quit panicking after every loss, and quit thinking we've turned the corner after every win. It's a long season fans, now is not the time to abandon ship or give up yet. I can promise you this....if we get to the playoffs healthy, there are many teams in the east who dont want to play us.

                          Tbird
                          Strongly agree. I don't shy from pointing out flaws I think they have, but that doesn't mean I dislike the team or anything. I have been frustrated by DunDun, but I still want him to do well.

                          Often I find myself taking the "anti-Pacers" view against some fan that is promoting only part of the team as a method for blasting a player they don't like (ie, "see how good they are without X"). But that's not how I feel at the game or in my own thoughts while I'm watching. I think "man, Dun can't buy a shot, stop going to him", but never "trade him, he sucks".


                          I love following the Pacers, love the NBA level of the sport, and remain hopeful for good results even when I expect uninspiring ones instead (like this season).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

                            From TBird:

                            "-Until I saw it live and could view the entire floor, I didnt realize what a hindrance Jeff Foster is to a teams half court offense. I admit, I have no idea as a coach how to use Jeff offensively, and neither does Rick. RC had Jeff setting a multitude of "ball screens" for Tinsley and others, and they had absolutely no effect whatsoever. His screens are poor, but more than that his man just switches on the ballhandler until the original defender can recover, and since Jeff is such a non threat there is no chance of throwing it back to Jeff and getting anything out of it. Since Jeff is a very poor away from the ball screener too, and he can't shoot, handle the ball, pass, or post up, I have no clue other than an offensive rebound what he is capable of doing to help a team play offense. Maybe somebody can coach a way to have him help us, but that person isnt me."

                            I like Foster alot. I think of all the Pacers, he and Army bring the most energy and effort every single night no matter what. But..

                            I've also been very critical of his poor offensive game. He's never been a scorer, but that's just it! If somebody would just work with him on his ball handling (drippling) or to develop a jump shot he'd really shock some people. I've also notice all the high screens he sets for Tinsley and Armstrong and wonder every single time why he always passes the ball when he's clearly open for the shot. Now, granted, we really don't want him taking 12-15 footers, but if he'd work on that one set play - the high screen (or PnR) - and learn to knock down that shot when the ball his passed back to him off the screen, man he'd become a very nice weapon because you clearly see that play works w/Jeff being wide open nearly every time. And even if he's not open initially, one ball fake like he's passing the ball but instead he takes the shot when he man leave him to double-up on somebody else...he'd score 20 pts by himself that way because most teams really don't see him as an offensive threat!

                            I can't tell you the number of times I've screamed at the TV saying, "Take the shot!", or asked, "Why don't you (Foster) put the ball on the floor and make a power move to the basket?" If the Pacers' asst. coaches are reading this thread, take heed! Work with Foster on the above aspects of his game and you will have created something where nothing existed before - a shooting Jeff Foster. And that can only be an asset to the team.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Tbird observations from row 20 vs Denver

                              Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post

                              -Ike Diogu reminds me of a scene from the movie "major league". The scene Im thinking of is when Pedro Cerrano is killing fastballs for home runs in batting practice, and the manager says something like "this guy hits a ton, why hasnt anyone else picked him up?" Then they throw curves to him, see him swing wildly and miss, and the manager goes "oh s--t". Thats the way Ike reacts to a doubleteam in the post. As long as he draws single coverage he can play, but if he is doubled at all he isnt big enough to see over it or a good enough passer to pass out of it. He is very very raw.
                              Nobody that scores the ball in the paint like he does is very very raw. I know what you mean, but he is VERY skilled with the ball.
                              It was only, oh, maybe a YEAR ago that people here complained about Jermaines inability to deal with double teams.
                              It will come with time and minutes./

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X