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Thread: Prince - Halftime Show

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    Default Prince - Halftime Show

    Just wanted to say that I enjoyed the Prince halftime show very much. He is a very bada $ $ guitarist.

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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    Just wanted to say that I enjoyed the Prince halftime show very much. He is a very bada $ $ guitarist.
    Man, I have to say I hated it. I liked his attempt at an eclectic mix of songs, but I just didn't think it worked well. He played what many feel like is his most popular song first, and I found it to be a very strange ride. I was kind of excited about him playing but I just didn't think it played well.

    I was thinking that Jimmy Buffett would be a great halftime show. He has his little escapism thing he sells in the midst of an event like the Superbowl... I just think it would be a good fit.
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    I think Prince kicked ***.

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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    I think Prince kicked ***.
    Agree. I didn't even plan on watching the halftime show, but it came on, and I couldn't stop watching.

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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    I actually really enjoyed it. I think he did a pretty good job.
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    I thought he was very good, also......
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    I thought he was very good, also......
    I'm officially the odd man out. The funny thing is, I like most of the covers he played. I just really got into the Foo Fighters in the last year and I love classics Like All Along the Watchtower and Proud Mary.

    Truth be told, I don't like many of the halftime performances. It is so difficult, perhaps impossible, to get a really good sound at a stadium.
    “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
    motivated and going. Thirty percent is to see if I can get into the opponent’s head.”
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Count me among those that liked Prince's halftime performance. Also, kudos to Prince for singing and playing 'live' and not lip synching.

    As to the problem of getting a good sound in a stadium. There's very little relationship to the sound in the stadium and the sound you hear on your TV or home theatre setup. The lines/mics all split and the television mix has nothing to do with the house mix. It's handled separately.

    But you do have to deal with directors/producers who want more 'star' vocal and/or instrument.

    Also, I don't know how the SB works (since these acts do typically carry some clout) but on television union rules can come into play and the person manning the console might NOT be the act's normal engineer (soundman) but instead someone who is with the television production and has the proper union clearance.

    Also, when mixing for television, it's more of studio type monitoring setup. If the band has someone manning the console (for the broadcast feed) who's more in tune with studio work, then he might get a better balance (since he's more used to work in the confines of the studio and with the monitoring equip) but not work so well on the fly which is something that a live engineer is more used to.

    OTOH, that same live engineer might not be so used to hearing his mix on small studio speakers (or compensating for the demands of the average television sound system).

    In the big chair...
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    I thought it was awesome. We gave it a standing ovation.



    Especially this:


  10. #10

    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    I have to tell ya, I have never been a Prince fan, not that he is not a tremedous talent, he is, maybe the best on his insterment since Hendrix, I was concerned with the song choices he might make, and the "ludeness" that he might bring onto the stage, especially after the wordrobe malfuction, and others trying to make some kind of statment with thier music.

    He was classy, appropriate for all ages, and he freaking rocked.....

    I was very pleased, it made me a Prince fan... well, almost...

    Props to him.

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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    I thought Prince was very entertaining - I liked the covers but really wanted to hear "When Doves Cry" and "Little Red Corvette".

    I'm more irritated with the movie and CBS promos. Prince can put on an appropriate halftime show. Even Budweiser makes "family friendly" commercials relatively speaking. But the violent images that make it into a 30- or 60- second tv or movie promo is absolutely disturbing. They should start putting parental warnings on the promo commercials. "The following block of commercials and promos are rated PG-13". And then lump them all together.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    I thought Prince was very entertaining - I liked the covers but really wanted to hear "When Doves Cry" and "Little Red Corvette".

    I'm more irritated with the movie and CBS promos. Prince can put on an appropriate halftime show. Even Budweiser makes "family friendly" commercials relatively speaking. But the violent images that make it into a 30- or 60- second tv or movie promo is absolutely disturbing. They should start putting parental warnings on the promo commercials. "The following block of commercials and promos are rated PG-13". And then lump them all together.
    I'm SO with you on this. My children are 6 and 4, and they were covering their eyes during the commercials and I hated to tell them not to so they could see the funny ones because of the horrible things you talk about.....

    I don't imagine it will ever happen that they censor those promos, after all, they seem to be policing themselves....

    Oh, and I thought Prince was awesome....



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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Prince put on a great show. And it had some pretty cool special effects as well.

    The funny part about that picture above, Look how short he looks caompared to the microphone stand. That had everyone at my party cracking up when I pointed that out, especially since we were all commenting on how short prince really is.

    I did hear there was some controversy, or at least the News shows were trying to make it a controversy about the above image saying prince slipped on past the censors with him stroking his "pointy thing" per say.

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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyron View Post
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    I did hear there was some controversy, or at least the News shows were trying to make it a controversy about the above image saying prince slipped on past the censors with him stroking his "pointy thing" per say.

    I bet the cable pundits will make too big a deal about it, but clearly Prince did that intentionally.

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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Count me among those that liked Prince's halftime performance. Also, kudos to Prince for singing and playing 'live' and not lip synching.

    As to the problem of getting a good sound in a stadium. There's very little relationship to the sound in the stadium and the sound you hear on your TV or home theatre setup. The lines/mics all split and the television mix has nothing to do with the house mix. It's handled separately.

    But you do have to deal with directors/producers who want more 'star' vocal and/or instrument.

    Also, I don't know how the SB works (since these acts do typically carry some clout) but on television union rules can come into play and the person manning the console might NOT be the act's normal engineer (soundman) but instead someone who is with the television production and has the proper union clearance.

    Also, when mixing for television, it's more of studio type monitoring setup. If the band has someone manning the console (for the broadcast feed) who's more in tune with studio work, then he might get a better balance (since he's more used to work in the confines of the studio and with the monitoring equip) but not work so well on the fly which is something that a live engineer is more used to.

    OTOH, that same live engineer might not be so used to hearing his mix on small studio speakers (or compensating for the demands of the average television sound system).

    In the big chair...
    A live engineer has ONE chance to get something right. A studio engineer has as much time as artist patience and management's budget will allow. It's two different disciplines.


    -Bball

    Keith Richards once said "the smaller the joint the better the sound." It is very difficult to get a good sound in a large venue. You just don't have the ideal setup for acoustics, so then when you try to transfer that to television, it becomes even more difficult.
    “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by brichard View Post
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    Keith Richards once said "the smaller the joint the better the sound." It is very difficult to get a good sound in a large venue. You just don't have the ideal setup for acoustics, so then when you try to transfer that to television, it becomes even more difficult.
    I don't disagree with Keith Richards' point but I disagree with your point. We're talking about two different things. The sound you hear on TV has very, very little to do with the sound in the arena. It's not like the TV crew sticks up a couple of mics to pick up the room (or stadium sound in this case) and just broadcasts that. It's all a very high level production and amazing what is accomplished on events of this scale in the small time they have.

    Every instrument is mic'ed (or DI'ed) as well as vocals and then the mic lines are split. You will at least have 3 splits (or you can think of them as feeds):
    Broadcast audio console
    House audio console
    Monitor (stage) audio console

    Each of those positions will be manned by at least one engineer. Each engineer will be responsible for entirely different mixes. Performers on stage won't be hearing what the house hears or the tv for that matter. In these days of IEMS (in ear monitoring) the performer doesn't even have much concern with the bleed of the house sound reaching his/her ears.

    By the same token the FOH (front of house) engineer will be soley responsible for what the stadium is hearing thru the house speakers. Typically for an event such as the Super Bowl the inhouse sound system/public address system is augmented greatly. I didn't notice what they did this year but in year's past they've utilized line array (speaker) technology on large carts or trailers to better cover the stadium for the halftime show.

    Lastly, most likely in a truck altho it can be a specialized room, will be the engineer that controls the mix for the television broadcast. Again, every instrument, track, vocal all feed here (to this console) directly, and separately, from the stage. There is total control here. There are also some ambient mics fed here in order to feed some of the crowd noise into the television mix to give it a 'live' feel. You'd be surprised at how little crowd noise you'd hear if it wasn't for these ambient mics.

    If you took a handycam into the stadium and recorded the concert then you would be hearing the acousitics of the venue and of course the crowd. But the mics on stage are usually uni-directional, super cardioid, or hyper cardiod type mics. Which means they cancel ambient sound to varying degrees and only (more or less) pick up what is directly at the head of the mic. Not much crowd noise (leakage) is going to get into a mic 1" off the grill of a guitar amp at arena stage levels. By the same token, a vocal mic also won't be picking up much else except the singer that is singing into it. Especially rock and pop music styles where the singers stay very close, if not touching the mic with their lips.

    The S/N ratio of these close mic'ed instruments/vox comes into play.

    Things like keyboards and bass guitars are typically DI'ed (which mean they connect directly -Direct Injection) to the sound system (and technically on most larger production the bass guitar amp will also be mic'ed altho that is optional). A DI'ed instrument won't really be subjected to any ambient noise in its channel on the mixing consoles.

    Drums, with all their open mics, would seem a source for picking up ambient sounds but that is where 'noise gates' come into play. Those open mics won't really be 'open'... they'll be 'gated' and will only 'open' when a sound of a certain threshold (and for pro equip also a frequency range can be selected) is reached. IOW- the TING of a cymbal probably won't even open the mic, but a solid THUD of a drum will open its mic. But the drum won't be loud enough to cause the threshold to be reached on an adjacent drum and mic. So, except when those drums (individually) are being hit, those mics are 'off'.

    And once again, this can and will be all set differently for the house, stage, and broadcast mixes.


    As you can imagine, a mass of cabling is necessary for a production of this size.... The logistics have to be a nightmare.

    ---

    So it is a misconception to think the people in the stadium are hearing what we hear at home. They are completely different mixes, mixed by completely different people.

    ---

    Now on the smallest of small scale local TV work things can be done differently. Altho the same basic principles still do apply. I have done some work where the basic house feed was made available to several different broadcasters covering an event. This is typical for a news conference type event. Some people will take just the natural sound while others will take the provided feed.... or they can utilize both and pick and choose in editing (or even live on the fly).

    And I've also done it where I've mixed house audio with a split going to the television truck and tv did their own mixing. (And in wearing two hats I've setup a matrix mix of the house band and fed that to the broadcast truck. This mix had absolutely no similarity to the mix fed to the house... I was simply doing what would normally be done by someone else).

    But we're talking SMALL scale stuff there.... but the idea is the same at every level (at least once you start utlizing splits).

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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I don't disagree with Keith Richards' point but I disagree with your point. We're talking about two different things. The sound you hear on TV has very, very little to do with the sound in the arena. It's not like the TV crew sticks up a couple of mics to pick up the room (or stadium sound in this case) and just broadcasts that. It's all a very high level production and amazing what is accomplished on events of this scale in the small time they have.

    Every instrument is mic'ed (or DI'ed) as well as vocals and then the mic lines are split. You will at least have 3 splits (or you can think of them as feeds):
    Broadcast audio console
    House audio console
    Monitor (stage) audio console

    Each of those positions will be manned by at least one engineer. Each engineer will be responsible for entirely different mixes. Performers on stage won't be hearing what the house hears or the tv for that matter. In these days of IEMS (in ear monitoring) the performer doesn't even have much concern with the bleed of the house sound reaching his/her ears.

    By the same token the FOH (front of house) engineer will be soley responsible for what the stadium is hearing thru the house speakers. Typically for an event such as the Super Bowl the inhouse sound system/public address system is augmented greatly. I didn't notice what they did this year but in year's past they've utilized line array (speaker) technology on large carts or trailers to better cover the stadium for the halftime show.

    Lastly, most likely in a truck altho it can be a specialized room, will be the engineer that controls the mix for the television broadcast. Again, every instrument, track, vocal all feed here (to this console) directly, and separately, from the stage. There is total control here. There are also some ambient mics fed here in order to feed some of the crowd noise into the television mix to give it a 'live' feel. You'd be surprised at how little crowd noise you'd hear if it wasn't for these ambient mics.

    If you took a handycam into the stadium and recorded the concert then you would be hearing the acousitics of the venue and of course the crowd. But the mics on stage are usually uni-directional, super cardioid, or hyper cardiod type mics. Which means they cancel ambient sound to varying degrees and only (more or less) pick up what is directly at the head of the mic. Not much crowd noise (leakage) is going to get into a mic 1" off the grill of a guitar amp at arena stage levels. By the same token, a vocal mic also won't be picking up much else except the singer that is singing into it. Especially rock and pop music styles where the singers stay very close, if not touching the mic with their lips.

    The S/N ratio of these close mic'ed instruments/vox comes into play.

    Things like keyboards and bass guitars are typically DI'ed (which mean they connect directly -Direct Injection) to the sound system (and technically on most larger production the bass guitar amp will also be mic'ed altho that is optional). A DI'ed instrument won't really be subjected to any ambient noise in its channel on the mixing consoles.

    Drums, with all their open mics, would seem a source for picking up ambient sounds but that is where 'noise gates' come into play. Those open mics won't really be 'open'... they'll be 'gated' and will only 'open' when a sound of a certain threshold (and for pro equip also a frequency range can be selected) is reached. IOW- the TING of a cymbal probably won't even open the mic, but a solid THUD of a drum will open its mic. But the drum won't be loud enough to cause the threshold to be reached on an adjacent drum and mic. So, except when those drums (individually) are being hit, those mics are 'off'.

    And once again, this can and will be all set differently for the house, stage, and broadcast mixes.


    As you can imagine, a mass of cabling is necessary for a production of this size.... The logistics have to be a nightmare.

    ---

    So it is a misconception to think the people in the stadium are hearing what we hear at home. They are completely different mixes, mixed by completely different people.

    ---

    Now on the smallest of small scale local TV work things can be done differently. Altho the same basic principles still do apply. I have done some work where the basic house feed was made available to several different broadcasters covering an event. This is typical for a news conference type event. Some people will take just the natural sound while others will take the provided feed.... or they can utilize both and pick and choose in editing (or even live on the fly).

    And I've also done it where I've mixed house audio with a split going to the television truck and tv did their own mixing. (And in wearing two hats I've setup a matrix mix of the house band and fed that to the broadcast truck. This mix had absolutely no similarity to the mix fed to the house... I was simply doing what would normally be done by someone else).

    But we're talking SMALL scale stuff there.... but the idea is the same at every level (at least once you start utlizing splits).

    -Bball
    Uhhh... okay. I can't disagree with you b/c for the most part I have no idea what you are talking about. And perhaps it is just coincidence, but anytime I have heard a "live" recording it has always sounded better in the smaller venues. For example, a live broadcast from a studio will typically sound better than something I hear on the Today show. And I've always felt like the Superbowl concerts were just "okay" on the sound side. Perhaps for different reasons than I assumed, but that is my take as a listener, right or wrong.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by brichard View Post
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    Uhhh... okay. I can't disagree with you b/c for the most part I have no idea what you are talking about. And perhaps it is just coincidence, but anytime I have heard a "live" recording it has always sounded better in the smaller venues. For example, a live broadcast from a studio will typically sound better than something I hear on the Today show. And I've always felt like the Superbowl concerts were just "okay" on the sound side. Perhaps for different reasons than I assumed, but that is my take as a listener, right or wrong.
    Yip... Can't argue what you're hearing only that your reasoning has been flawed. Inside a venue then room acoustics play a large role in what you hear there. Technology and seat location helps somewhat but for the most part you (and Keith Richards) are dead on here. But with a TV mix we're not really hearing the room- We're hearing somebody's idea of how the artist should sound, or the best they can make it sound with the limited time provided.

    While you might want to hear the kick drum thumping away with some act's barely perceptible trademark vocals, the guy assigned to the broadcast mix might be worried that a big kick drum sound will overwhelm the TV speakers and that those trademark buried vocals instead need to be right out in front and nearly void of that hall reverb that is used on the records.

    And that's another thing... the broadcast mix (which might sound fine to you in the truck) might be thinned, compressed, and tamed to sound good on little fullrange TV speakers first and foremost.

    The television mix is likely comprised of a series of tradeoffs.

    OTOH, a professional live concert DVD won't typically suffer these issues. Even in the same type venues as the live (or recorded live) TV shows like we are talking about. Basically, it will be recorded in much the same way as a Super Bowl halftime show EXCEPT the band, producer, studio eng, live eng, etc can also listen to the raw individual tracks and mix it after the fact. It will be the band and/or their handlers making the mix decisions. Not someone who might've never heard the artist before in their life until the first day of rehearsals.

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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    I'm SO with you on this. My children are 6 and 4, and they were covering their eyes during the commercials and I hated to tell them not to so they could see the funny ones because of the horrible things you talk about.....

    I don't imagine it will ever happen that they censor those promos, after all, they seem to be policing themselves....

    Oh, and I thought Prince was awesome....
    I hate to be the wet blanket on all of this, but my personal impression has been that the Super Bowl commercials have sucked ever since the "wardrobe malfunction". I have never found any of the SB commercials of the past to be offensive in the past, merely funny, and, strangely enough, this was the first year that I saw a commercial that I felt was in poor taste, that being the Doritos checkout line commercial. Even then, I'm not sure if I'd call it offensive, just tasteless.

    I think, just with everything else in this country, we ignore everything until one abberation causes us to overreact for the next decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    I hate to be the wet blanket on all of this, but my personal impression has been that the Super Bowl commercials have sucked ever since the "wardrobe malfunction". I have never found any of the SB commercials of the past to be offensive in the past, merely funny, and, strangely enough, this was the first year that I saw a commercial that I felt was in poor taste, that being the Doritos checkout line commercial. Even then, I'm not sure if I'd call it offensive, just tasteless.

    I think, just with everything else in this country, we ignore everything until one abberation causes us to overreact for the next decade.
    The main problem isn't really the paid advertisers, but CBS with all of the dead bodies and whatnot on all of the commercials for the CSI's, Criminal Minds's, etc.....
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    The main problem isn't really the paid advertisers, but CBS with all of the dead bodies and whatnot on all of the commercials for the CSI's, Criminal Minds's, etc.....
    Exactly.

    Although the Hannibel Lechter commerical was another questionable display.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    I bet the cable pundits will make too big a deal about it, but clearly Prince did that intentionally.
    I dunno. Could be. But for those who were worried that Prince might be lewd, he become a Jehovah's Witness several years back and since then he has really toned down his shows and he no longer plays some of his raunchier songs. That on top of the fact that he has a bum hip, and we're talking about a pretty tame affair.

    I didn't love the show, but I didn't hate it either. I thought the covers he did were interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    I think Prince kicked ***.

    I loved the All Along the Watchtower with the Best of You.
    Me too. Brilliant.

    (edit - this rant is partially stupid in light of a mistake I made...see a later post)
    But talk about telling perceptions, I saw someone (maybe ESPN) describing it with a positive review, and in it apparently Prince played songs by CCR and Bob Dylan.

    Now of course he did...but he also played songs by Ike and Tina and Jimi Hendrix. Either description is right, but clearly you can see a slant there (edit, no you can't). I'm sure it was unintentional and totally harmless, but honestly I think the influence on him came from Ike and Tina/Jimi more, and CCR did not write Proud Mary (edit - yes they did) as Dylan did with Watchtower.

    I'm a huge CCR fan and love their version, but it's also THE staple of the Ike and Tina catalog. I think that's why he chose it to be honest. (edit - the one thing I still stand by is that the influence came from Turner and Jimi's versions).


    Anyway, back to the set in general, I loved the mix, I couldn't believe how well he played in that weather and his voice was terrific. He came out looking like a true pro. He's a "get your money's worth" performer.

    I was also impressed that despite a massively deep collection of singles to choose from of his own, that he mixed in some other stuff instead. It was a lot more like a traditional concert instead of some has-been greatest hits parade.

    ps - I've never heard the Foo's cover of Nikki. Any good?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Now of course he did...but he also played songs by Ike and Tina and Jimi Hendrix. Either description is right, but clearly you can see a slant there. I'm sure it was unintentional and totally harmless, but honestly I think the influence on him came from Ike and Tina/Jimi more, and CCR did not write Proud Mary as Dylan did with Watchtower.

    John Fogerty wrote it. CCR is close enough, eh?

  25. #25
    Dream Big
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    Default Re: Prince - Halftime Show

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=29036

    For an encore performance follow this link
    http://www.housequake.com/showthread...threadid=80658

    To download the haltime press conference performance, go here
    http://download.yousendit.com/31042DB36836DC28

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