Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 52

Thread: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,579

    Default Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Anybody left that still thinks Rick is a great X's and O's coach?

  2. #2
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,169

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    If we're talking tic tac toe... otherwise, not after tonight

  3. #3
    PD original FireTheCoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    southport, indiana
    Age
    45
    Posts
    628

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    I'm already on record as saying that this should be Ricks last season here in Indiana...

    I don't think he's a bad coach... I just feel like his tenure as the Pacers head coach has run it's course and it should be over when this season is finished. Sure he's been dealt a bad hand having to deal with some of the nutjob players that have worn the blue and gold these past few years.... but even considering that, I still think it's time for a different direction coaching wise.

  4. #4
    Member odeez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    3,776

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    This game should have been won. We lack the understanding of how to close out a game, at home of all places?!?!?! I think TINS is playing great of late, but not sure if he should be taking the last shot, but I wasn't able to watch the game, so not sure the game situation. But I could see by checking the score on my phone that we were going to lose. Don't know what else to say, but get it together, you are playing at HOME! I know that these are Westeren Conference teams, but come on, play hard and close these teams out in the forth. SOmeone in our locker room should be screaming right now, these are important games... 3 steps forward and then two back, same Pacers.

    Nice game tonight by many of our players, but it means nothing without that W.
    Avatar photo credit: Bahram Mark Sobhani - AP

  5. #5
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    I don't understand Rick's belief in end-of-quarter/half/game situations being the time to give the ball to the PG and just expect him to pull something out of his ***, with the possible addition of a pick.

  6. #6
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    8,699

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't understand Rick's belief in end-of-quarter/half/game situations being the time to give the ball to the PG and just expect him to pull something out of his ***, with the possible addition of a pick.
    And not having 1 player move into open position while the PG is being doubled and the D is waiting to collapse while still having a 20 sec time out left.

    Can we lay to rest the idea that Tins does the driving and such on his own account ?
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  7. #7
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And not having 1 player move into open position while the PG is being doubled and the D is waiting to collapse while still having a 20 sec time out left.

    Can we lay to rest the idea that Tins does the driving and such on his own account ?
    I'm not going to let his entire game-by-game performance go, no; I don't like a lot of what I see in those terms.

    But in these situations? I don't blame him at all.

  8. #8
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,132

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And not having 1 player move into open position while the PG is being doubled
    Can you even POSSIBLY be serious?????????????????

    You think it's HIS fault that nobody moves on this team??????????????

    LOL

  9. #9
    Member odeez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    3,776

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Anybody left that still thinks Rick is a great X's and O's coach?
    no

    very tired of him, but I know he is a good coach.
    Avatar photo credit: Bahram Mark Sobhani - AP

  10. #10
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Sure was fun to watch a game without Jermaine O'Neal. Love that style of play where we're only in it because we're unconscious from deep.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  11. #11
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,169

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    2 losses to the Sonics in the final secs... a good team would have found a way to win ONE of those games. Maybe we need to get healthy, maybe we need a new coach, maybe we need an overload.... after 2 straight home lossed to below .500 teams.... WE NEED SOMETHING!

  12. #12
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,754

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Ok, I've read the first 9 posts and no one has even mentioned the word Defense. That is why the Pacers lost. Blame Rick all you want for JT missing that final shot, but the defense is what killed us tonight.

    it is really as simple as that

    I thought Tinsley played well tonight - he was a more willing passer and he was able to get into the paint which is where I want him shooting from. No three point shots please.

    I do need to say that Watson, a player I've wanted for 3 season now, looked impressive to me

  13. #13
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,169

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ok, I've read the first 9 posts and no one has even mentioned the word Defense. That is why the Pacers lost. Blame Rick all you want for JT missing that final shot, but the defense is what killed us tonight.

    it is really as simple as that

    I thought Tinsley played well tonight - he was a more willing passer and he was able to get into the paint which is where I want him shooting from. No three point shots please.

    I do need to say that Watson, a player I've wanted for 3 season now, looked impressive to me
    I mentioned defense some in the game thread.. too angry to include it here!

    I agree Tinsley played well, I didn't even notice he was 10-26 from the field. Any other night I think I would have know Tinsley shot 26 times, but his all around game blacked out how many times he shot.

  14. #14
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,579

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Blame Rick all you want for JT missing that final shot
    I'm not blaming Rick for JT missing a shot, I'm blaming Rick for coming up with an ill-conceived, predictable play on a potential gamewinning shot. Was it inevitably Rick that caused us to lose? absolutely not those lob-passes and alley-oops and uncontested layups finally caught up with us. But you have to admit that last play was beyond wretched.

  15. #15
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,754

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not blaming Rick for JT missing a shot, I'm blaming Rick for coming up with an ill-conceived, predictable play on a potential gamewinning shot. Was it inevitably Rick that caused us to lose? absolutely not those lob-passes and alley-oops and uncontested layups finally caught up with us. But you have to admit that last play was beyond wretched.
    I thought it was a pretty good shot - he usually makes that.

    I don't know how Granger missed the put back a very similar shot to the one he missed at the end of the Mavs game.

    I missed the first half of the game, but from what I saw, Dunleavy did a decent job on Allen. It wasn't the disaster I would have predicted.

  16. #16
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not blaming Rick for JT missing a shot, I'm blaming Rick for coming up with an ill-conceived, predictable play on a potential gamewinning shot. Was it inevitably Rick that caused us to lose? absolutely not those lob-passes and alley-oops and uncontested layups finally caught up with us. But you have to admit that last play was beyond wretched.
    Hmm, you did see the final made FG by the Pacers, right? I mean it was on the same channel just a minute or two earlier.

    I missed the first half of the game, but from what I saw, Dunleavy did a decent job on Allen. It wasn't the disaster I would have predicted.
    Yes it was. Wasn't it in the 2nd half when DunDun fell on Ray while trying to keep up with him (Gnome laughed out loud when it happened)? That was the closest to staying in front of him he could muster all night.

    Ray hit some tough shots against Danny and did get by him once. But at least DG was able to stay in front of him most of the time. And I've been critical of DG's 1 on 1 defensive smarts. Tonight DG was solid.

  17. #17
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,579

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hmm, you did see the final made FG by the Pacers, right? I mean it was on the same channel just a minute or two earlier.
    Yes it was the same shot and it worked earlier, but the phrase "going to the well one too many times" comes to mind. Like I said...it was predictable. regardless of whether or not it worked on play X does not mean it will work on play Y that's flawed logic.

  18. #18
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes it was the same shot and it worked earlier, but the phrase "going to the well one too many times" comes to mind. Like I said...it was predictable. regardless of whether or not it worked on play X does not mean it will work on play Y that's flawed logic.
    Yeah, remember how Reggie would always miss that shot everyone knew was coming....or ANY decent player.

    WTF surprise are you looking for here? Let's keep in mind that whatever they choose to do, the player has to be able to make the play. Just a bit before that Murph forced a drive to the lane when nothing really opened up outside for him. That was a charge, just part of the collapse.

    They ran a standard PnR with Foster on that final play and the Sonics jumped all over it with pressure. And again the biggest issue is that Tins drew lots of attention and yet the Pacers still couldn't put back the offensive rebound, just as they failed to pull in the defensive rebound after Ray missed his shot.

    At some point you have to execute. Tricks are not what most late game plays in the NBA (for any team) are built on.

    And finally, do you really think Tins scored the other layup on pure surprise, that the Sonics "never saw it coming"? Like any other late shots, it comes down to who can make a play more than anything.


    Murphy came off his man while watching the Ray miss bounce and that space is explicitly how they got the rebound and bucket (plus Tins fouling when he grabbed his arm in an attempt to stop the putback). When the ball went up both Foster and Murph had inside position on their guys. By the end of the play this wasn't true. That's execution and if they complete that task they win the game, period.


    Anyway, the concern should fall much, much more on how they lost their late lead to the point that they needed to make a bucket.

    74-83, DunDun in for Granger (and put back on Allen)
    88-90, Granger returns for Dunleavy and they procede to go back up by 7 at one point 92-99

    With the game 94-99 you have Granger miss, Murph rebound and miss, Foster rebound and miss (boy, that sounds oddly familiar).

    Ray hits a jumper.

    Tins scores 1 of 2 after drawing a foul.

    Watson layup (off Ray play)

    Murphy charges in an awkward drive. Then at the other end his guy scores and he fouls him for the 3pt play.

    Tins makes the layup for the final lead.

    Ray misses, offensive board and score for final points.


    So to recap, Ray Allen was the focus of basically every trip and when he missed a shot or dished it, other guys rebounded for scores or made inside shots. When Tins missed the Pacers couldn't put it back in, let alone get fouled doing so. I wasn't even that happy with Tins in the 2nd half, but he did score on 2 of the 3 trips his number was called. That's better than Murph, Granger and Foster were able to do.


    But it was the gameplan and not the execution. Knowing that Ray was taking that final shot didn't seem to keep the Sonics from winning. I'd love an explanation on why that is since it's so obvious that the final play call being obvious ruins games, whereas rebounding aces getting beat on the boards late or missing putbacks is standard for winning efforts.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I do need to say that Watson, a player I've wanted for 3 season now, looked impressive to me
    UB, I respect your posts... but the last two players you want on this team are not that great to begin with.. I am referring to Quis and Dunleavy..

    they may be good players, but they are not game changers... they dont forces teams to match up...

    In Stephen Jackson's defence, atleast I have read quotes that say teams prepare for Stephen Jackson .....

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Woodside,NY
    Age
    32
    Posts
    281

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by stew View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    UB, I respect your posts... but the last two players you want on this team are not that great to begin with.. I am referring to Quis and Dunleavy..

    they may be good players, but they are not game changers... they dont forces teams to match up...

    In Stephen Jackson's defence, atleast I have read quotes that say teams prepare for Stephen Jackson .....
    Yeah but Steven Jackson, Al Harrington are .

  21. #21
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Anybody left that still thinks Rick is a great X's and O's coach?
    He was smart enough to get craptastic Dunleavy out of the game and off of Ray Ray and put Granger on him. That cut the damage.

    He opened the 3rd by running sets designed to get Murphy the 3pt look, that worked well. He also was calling the play that kept getting DA the open 3 in the corner. Didn't hear a lot of fan complaints about that one.

    And he had his 2 best rebounders in the game to pull in that Ray Allen miss and the Tinsley miss. Too bad they didn't get the defensive board and couldn't put the offensive board in at the other end. Either play would have won the game. Regardless, he had his best rebounders in the game for those 2 situations.

    Sure was fun to watch a game without Jermaine O'Neal. Love that style of play where we're only in it because we're unconscious from deep.
    Amen. I saw motion. I saw confused, unsure of where guys were supposed to be motion, but they were moving. I vote that any style where your all-star player gets the ball most of the time is good.

    For all the rips on Tins (and he did force the 2nd half action into the toilet when it came to his shooting), he had to tell several players where to be when they were trying to run that DA 3pt look play yet again. He called it and no one setup right. He shook his head in disgust and redirected them. The play then ran perfectly except that Foster got nailed with the moving screen (late 4th).

    It's not as simple as Rick or Tinsley. Players are confused, probably due to the massive roster changes that get worse when your star player is out.


    And you guys that rant about JO's passing (which is quite good now, even statistically), watch Ike freak out in the post when he has to move the ball. He struggled to pass out of the post all night.


    One thing about that final call, how did the Pacers regain the lead just a minute earlier? Exactly.

    Heck, how did Granger and Murph and DA get those open 3s? Tins starting plays is NOT WRONG. Calling Tins number to work inside isn't wrong. Ray Allen was asked to do it all night too. The problem came when he forced the play beyond where it should go. At some point you have the option to pass depending on how the play is defended.


    Rick tried a lot of different sets and kept adjusting all night looking for something that would work. He ran the hell out of those Murph and DA for 3 sets (those were set plays with several stages before the shot, which is why they looked identical every freaking time) because they were working.


    The fact is this team lost Quis, lost JO, and traded down from Jack to DunDun. They were an iffy offensive team before and its worse now even when Quis and JO are out there. The defense from Dun is very questionable, Murph is hit and miss.

    Fixing the attitude came at a price, one this roster wasn't really in a position to afford.


    If it makes you feel better, this will probably end Rick's tenure here. And then it will get really ugly. Good news for all you lottery is magic fanatics, it's probably a season away.

  22. #22
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,579

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    He was smart enough to get craptastic Dunleavy out of the game and off of Ray Ray and put Granger on him. That cut the damage.
    ok anybody with an IQ of 2 could have made that call

    He opened the 3rd by running sets designed to get Murphy the 3pt look, that worked well. He also was calling the play that kept getting DA the open 3 in the corner. Didn't hear a lot of fan complaints about that one.
    ok he ran a few set plays still nothing groundbreaking.

    And he had his 2 best rebounders in the game to pull in that Ray Allen miss and the Tinsley miss. Too bad they didn't get the defensive board and couldn't put the offensive board in at the other end. Either play would have won the game. Regardless, he had his best rebounders in the game for those 2 situations.
    Again an obvious coaching move i've seen people on this board wonder why he has kept his rebounders out of the lineup in the closing minutes, he finally made that adjustments after about 3 games good for him.

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,312

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ok anybody with an IQ of 2 could have made that call



    ok he ran a few set plays still nothing groundbreaking.



    Again an obvious coaching move i've seen people on this board wonder why he has kept his rebounders out of the lineup in the closing minutes, he finally made that adjustments after about 3 games good for him.
    Where is this criticism of RC when we win? You can't just dismiss what the coach does well as elementary, obvious, or unworthy of credit, and then point out AFTER THE FACT what could have been done better. Two great basketball minds in Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird gave this guy an extension. He hasn't ever had a losing season, he hasn't missed the playoffs. He has coached 2 Allstar teams already, and been coach of the year. Rich Carlisle is a damn good coach period.

  24. #24
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,579

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobol Sam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Where is this criticism of RC when we win? You can't just dismiss what the coach does well as elementary, obvious, or unworthy of credit, and then point out AFTER THE FACT what could have been done better. Two great basketball minds in Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird gave this guy an extension. He hasn't ever had a losing season, he hasn't missed the playoffs. He has coached 2 Allstar teams already, and been coach of the year. Rich Carlisle is a damn good coach period.
    Alright maybe that was a little out of line I did say Rick inevitably wasn't cause of this loss after all, just a little frustrated after a "should win" and being up by a sizeable lead and still let a team like the Sonics get away from us. I've talked about ricks horrible in-game moves before in the actual game threads during winning games, so it's not as one-sided as you might think, as a matter of fact I predicted exactly what would happen before I ever seen the play. The criticisms are just a less of an issue when we actually win the games, that doesn't make some of his bad habits any less mind-numbing and drive me up the wall. Besides anybody who would complain about rick's bad coaching moves after a win would get the cliche rebuttal "well we got the win didn't we?" and the criticism would fall on deaf ears.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,312

    Default Re: Pacers Vs. Sonics Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Besides anybody who would complain about rick's bad coaching moves after a win would get the cliche rebuttal "well we got the win didn't we?" and the criticism would fall on deaf ears.
    Yeah.. actually I could see myself doing that. The thing to think about is if Rick is making questionable decisions there might be a reasoning behind it. It might be related to the players he has available, or some trend he sees in practice. Of course he has weaknesses as a coach, but you can't string him up for that... every coach is going to bring weaknesses and strengths.

    For discussion sake, lets say RC was gone tomorrow. Who would be the next guy you'd like to see in here?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •