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Thread: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

  1. #51
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    You think its acceptable that DA shot the ball ten times last night?
    I'd have to go back and look at each of his 10 shots.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    I'm certainly not a Tinsley apologist but I do need to defend #11 here.

    I loved the way he distributed the ball in the 2nd half. (The 1st half was pretty disgusting) He must have found guys WIDE open for at least 10 shots. Dunleavy, Armstrong, JO, Murphy, and Granger all got great looks all night and were just off. Obviously he got carried away in the 2nd quarter with all of the shots, but JT tends to do that when the rest of the team is bricking jumper after jumper. I was very pleased to see him play team ball during the 2nd half. He finished with 10 assists and honestly he could have easily picked up 20. Guys were WIDE open all night and missed shots, I can't emphasize this enough. Dunleavy could have had a 40 pt. night with all of the clean looks he got.

    The Warriors were on fire + The Pacers being ICE cold = an ugly loss.

    Many of you like to think that Granger is our #2 option, but until he starts being more assetive on the offensive end, JT gets to play second fiddle to JO. Yes we all wanted to win even more than normal last night, but it didn't happen. Time to focus on the Sonics.

  3. #53

    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'd have to go back and look at each of his 10 shots.


    Yeah. It quite honestly is about quality, not quantity. A box score can't tell you whether those shots were with a hand in his face, or early in the shot clock, or with an open man waving frantically for the ball, or if he airballed the shot on the last possesion, etc.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    I thought Armstrong played below average for a backup PG last night. But he did have a couple of hustle plays.

    He's not part of the solution, he's just a stop-gap.

    I have a hard time believing that Tinsley is playing this many minutes in blatant disregard of the coach's wishes. If they are sharing the blame, its got to be 75% coach and 25% player at this stage.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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  5. #55
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    I thought Armstrong played below average for a backup PG last night. But he did have a couple of hustle plays.

    He's not part of the solution, he's just a stop-gap.

    I have a hard time believing that Tinsley is playing this many minutes in blatant disregard of the coach's wishes. If they are sharing the blame, its got to be 75% coach and 25% player at this stage.


    What choice does Rick have. He knows DA can't play heavy minutes especially every game. McLoud is just getting healthy. Daniels is out. Greene has shown to be a terrific defender, but horrible on the offensive end. Rick has no choice but to baby JT along and try to keep him on the court and playing. Rick knows that if he blows up at Tinsley - Tinsley will pout and sit out several games,.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    I know it's Charley Rosen but he's got a good analysis on yesterday's game, and especially read the last part on Tinsley's performance.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6445840

    Warriors enjoy trade's short-term advantage

    It's always intriguing when two teams that have recently participated in a major exchange of players face-off against each other for the first time. That's because the players involved are usually intent on proving that their former teams have made a huge mistake. So even though Golden State trampled Indiana by 113-98, the game-within-a-game was significant.

    Let's take a close-up look at the tradees and see what was what.

    First four are Warriors, second four are Pacers
    PlayerMIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A REBSASTTOBSPTS
    Harrington426-173-51-210524016
    Jackson4710-224-612-132117036
    Jasikevius100-30-10-0011100
    PowellDNP
    Dunleavy374-153-90-013713111
    Murphy171-31-20-0400003
    Diogu101-20-02-2010304
    McLeod50-10-00-0001100


    Al Harrington


    His 42 minutes of daylight were an awful lot for such a blowout. Early in the game, Harrington was only looking to the basket — his very first touch was a 3-pointer that split the net. Jumpers, drives, a spin in the pivot to catch and dunk a lob, everything was happening for him. But the only time he opted to pass was when an assist was to be had. After his initial burst of energy, however, Harrington's game sagged and he was mostly ineffective.
    In Golden State's hurry-up-and-shoot offense it's difficult to differentiate forced shots from those taken within the context of Don Nelson's game plan. However, it appeared that Harrington fired up five ill-advised shots.
    His defense consisted of gambling in the passing lanes or swiping at somebody's dribble.
    Overall, Harrington is a perfect fit in Nellie ball. He's a streak shooter with no conscience.
    Stephen Jackson


    His 47-plus minutes were even more noticeable than Harrington's PT. Obviously, Nelson was giving his two new studs every opportunity to strut their stuff and embarrass Rick Carlisle, Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh. In Jackson's case, Nellie succeeded.
    After scoring 36 points, Stephen Jackson said, "I'm not going to lie, it feels good to come back and beat your old team." (AJ Mast / Associated Press)

    The Pacers foolishly allowed Jackson to either shoot from a standstill or pull and shoot. I guess they didn't have him well-scouted. Given clear looks with his feet set, Jackson shot the lights out (especially in the first quarter when he scored 18 points). However, when he was forced to put the ball on the floor, he had difficulty maintaining possession. With Baron Davis down, and Monta Ellis suffering a bruised knee, Jackson was forced to spend several minutes impersonating a point guard. Nobody was fooled. Forget about passing, Jax was only interested in scoring — and that's all he did. (Like Harrington, he accounted for five forced shots.)
    Interesting enough, the 6-8 Jackson was most effectively defended by 6-1 Darrell Armstrong (who was the best player on the floor for the home team). Jackson tried posting Armstrong twice: The results were a missed fadeaway jumper and a steal by the little man. (When Jackson took Jamaal Tinsley into the pivot, he also misfired a fadeaway jumper).
    If Jackson were to average 36 points per game for the duration, then the Warriors pulled off the biggest heist since the Brinks robbery. Perhaps he'd do just that if Golden State only played Indiana. As it is, nobody's a streakier shooter than Jackson and he was on the roll of his life back home in Indiana.
    Still, despite his impressive numbers (discounting the turnovers), Jackson showed too much finesse and not enough muscle.
    Defense? Nah.
    Sarunas Jasikevicius


    He had trouble getting off a decent shot. Jasikevicius's deficient lateral movement was likewise highlighted on defense when whomever he happened to be guarding simply took him to the hole. Sure, he's smart, but although he's as slow as a tortoise he'll never beat the hares to the basket in this league.
    Indeed, the only reason why he got off the bench was the unavailability of Davis and Ellis. Jasikevius was strictly a warm body in the deal whose contract made the money numbers come out right.
    Mike Dunleavy


    He scurried here and there, curled off screens, made nifty passes, but couldn't find his stroke. To be an effective scorer, Dunleavy needs to operate in a carefully precisioned offense — which the Pacers certainly failed to demonstrate. It's also telling that four of Dunleavy's misses were front-rimmers, a sure sign that he was tight.
    Mike Dunleavy greets his former coach, Don Nelson, before Monday's game. (Ron Hoskins / Getty Images)

    Hmmm. One is left to wonder how (or if) this guy can ever be a factor in clutch situations. He certainly didn't participate in too many of them when he played for the woeful Warriors.
    Dunleavy did set a righteous screen in tandem with Armstrong, and he rolled hoopwards in fine fettle — but then he bobbled Armstrong's perfect pass. More nervousness? Or simply bad hands?
    At the other end of the court, Dunleavy's work ethic, defensive rotations and anticipation were actually surprising. He was also Indiana's most aggressive window cleaner, showing good hops, timing and aggression.
    With all of his considerable faults — the most damaging being his lack of strength — methinks Dunleavy will eventually thrive in Carlisle's deliberate offense.
    Troy Murphy


    He was obviously hindered by a recently broken schnozz — and is rapidly approaching Jerry West's career record of nine such injuries. As it was, Murphy didn't even touch the ball until 3:43 remained in the first quarter when he missed an 18-footer. Throughout his limited playing time, Murphy was totally out of synch.
    Even so, his defense certainly wasn't affected. As ever, it was simply wretched. He lost contact when Harrington posted, thereby allowing his man to spin freely to the basket and make himself available for a lob pass. On another occasion, Harrington cleaned his clock with a simple hard-drive right.
    Even if his nose was made out of concrete, Murphy would still lack the necessary athleticism to be a consistently effective NBA player. To contribute to the Pacers' future, Murphy has to make virtually all of his open shots.
    Ike Diogu


    He seemed somewhat clumsy out there. Diogu's supposed to be a dangerous scorer in the pivot, and perhaps that's why the Warriors two-timed him whenever he received the ball in the paint. However, he seemed confused whenever a crowd of defenders gathered around him, and his reactions were painfully slow. Diogu's ventures inside resulted in a jump ball and a turnover. His only basket came when he filled a lane on a break, made a perfect cut, catch and layup.
    Defense? What defense?
    Keith McLeod


    He basically ran around in garbage time, and tried to force a pass into a crowd. Like Jasikevicius, his contract was more important in the deal than was his talent.

    Overall, the Warriors showed much more intensity than did the Pacers. And the Warriors' newcomers were much more comfortable in their new system than were their Pacer counterparts.
    It should also be noted that the game was decided within the first minute of action: The Warriors can only win when they turn a game into a track meet, while the Pacers need to slow the game down. So, then, Golden State began the proceedings with Harrington taking (and making) a quick triple. On Indiana's first possession, however, Tinsley unleashed a quick jumper that was antithetical to Carlisle's game plan.
    What Tinsley should have done was work the ball until everybody got a touch and the Warriors had to play defense for at least 20 seconds. Instead, he immediately got caught up in exactly the kind of tempo that Golden State sought to establish.
    On the Warriors' return trip, Harrington took (and made) an 18-foot jumper. The second time the Pacers moved the ball into the attack zone, Tinsley took (and missed) another hasty shot. (Overall, Tinsley put up six abominable shots.)
    And the Warriors ran away with the game. For one game, the Warriors certainly came out miles ahead — but there was never any doubt that the short-term advantage would be theirs. The particulars of this deal can't be fully evaluated until the Pacers can ditch Tinsley and come up with a real point guard.
    Maceo Baston's #1 fan on Pacers Digest!

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    I have a hard time believing that Tinsley is playing this many minutes in blatant disregard of the coach's wishes. If they are sharing the blame, its got to be 75% coach and 25% player at this stage.
    Who is complaining about his minutes?

  8. #58
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Rosen sees the obvious that Tinsley was taking horrible shots.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    But his coach doesn't stop him.

    I don't think any fan likes the way Tinsley is playing. He's capable of so much better play from a team perspective. But Rick gives every indication that Tinsley is transforming into the type of PG he wants.

    Don't get me wrong, DA shoots far too often for my taste, too.

    As I've said for a long time, I'd rather have Steve Francis and his contract if THIS is how Rick is going to use his PGs. Tinsley is not made to play this way, no matter how much Rick is trying to change him.

    I find it funny that Charlie Rosen thinks he knows Rick's gameplan. We certainly can't find any/ many quotes from Rick criticizing Jamaal's play, so even if this isn't what Rick has in mind (and I believe this is exactly what he wants from Jamaal, just for Jamaal to shoot those shots at a higher percentage) he appears to be making a 0% effort to stop it.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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  10. #60
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Here's Tinsley by quarter. I don't know what it proves, but it's interesting.

    1st: 0-3, 1 assist
    2nd: 6-14, 2 assists
    3rd: 1-4, 5 assists
    4th: 2-3, 2 assists

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Tinsley as become the new whipping boy now that Jackson is gone. When and if Tinsley is ever gone, someone else will take his place as the new whipping boy. I wouldn't expect anything less from this group of whiners and blamers.

    Doesn't anyone realize that we lost or #2 and #3 scorers and with Quis out and Granger refusing to be more aggressive, that Tins is going to have to shoot more. Who else is going to score? Dun can't shoot for *****. Murphy looked like he didn't even want to be playing last night.

    Can't anyone see that it might take some time, at least a month or longer to even see what we have. Can anyone deny that we've played better since the trade? Does anyone really believe this the final product, after only a few weeks post trade?

    Another thing, It's absolutely fantastic that the Colts are World Champs! Doesn't change the fact that I've been a Pacer fan much longer. If people now ignore the Pacers, they were not real fans to begin with, screw them. I hope the Colts win 2 or 3 more SB's real soon. Blaming the Colts for the Pacers short comings is very petty and quite frankly idiotic. We are very lucky to have the Colts and players like Peyton, Marvin, Wayne, Saturday, Freeney etc... Peyton is almost like the Jordan of the NFL and will be included in most every discussion of the greatest players to ever play the game.
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  12. #62
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Maybe everybody missed this part of my post so I'll say it again. I don't care if Tinsley would have scored 100 points & threw out 33 assist, it still was the most selfish game I've seen played in years.

    It is NOT just the amount of shots he is taking, it is the time he is dominating the ball. When he is in the game there is maybe one or two passes that occur & they usually happen late in the clock when the person recieving the ball has time to either get up a jumper or pass it back.

    Nobody is disputing his ball handling ability, no one is doubting that other players aren't hitting their shots. What I am disputing is the fact that our offense is on a fast treadmill to nowhere when he is running the half court sets.

    Is it Rick's fault? Is it Jermaine's fault? Is it Jamaal's fault? Who knows but one thing is for sure, this offense is predictable, easily defended & frankly boring.

    I realize that many of you are fans of the Iverson, Marburry & Francis type point guards. I just am not.


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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpolloloco View Post
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    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6445840It should also be noted that the game was decided within the first minute of action: The Warriors can only win when they turn a game into a track meet, while the Pacers need to slow the game down. So, then, Golden State began the proceedings with Harrington taking (and making) a quick triple. On Indiana's first possession, however, Tinsley unleashed a quick jumper that was antithetical to Carlisle's game plan.
    What Tinsley should have done was work the ball until everybody got a touch and the Warriors had to play defense for at least 20 seconds. Instead, he immediately got caught up in exactly the kind of tempo that Golden State sought to establish.
    On the Warriors' return trip, Harrington took (and made) an 18-foot jumper. The second time the Pacers moved the ball into the attack zone, Tinsley took (and missed) another hasty shot. (Overall, Tinsley put up six abominable shots.)
    And the Warriors ran away with the game. For one game, the Warriors certainly came out miles ahead ? but there was never any doubt that the short-term advantage would be theirs. The particulars of this deal can't be fully evaluated until the Pacers can ditch Tinsley and come up with a real point guard.
    Wow....that's a pretty good analysis. That 1st half of the 1st QTR really set the tone for the rest of the game. Sounds like Nellie read our posts about Mel-Mel the abuser and his quick "you take a quick shot....I will take an even quicker shot" mentality.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  14. #64
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Ever since the loss in Detroit...Tinsley has averaged 16 FGA a game ( 14 FGA if we don't count his 24 FGA yesterday ) where we ended up winning 3 out of 5 games.

    Don't misread this as a "Tinsley took alot of shots in the previous games and no one complained about him then...why complain now" question...and I guess this question is more to the rest of the group that posted concerns about Tinsley becoming Jamaal Iverson....but what has been the difference with this loss...where he dominated the ball, took 24 FGA and dished out 10 Assists....and the previous 4 games where he averaged 8 Assists ( other then the additional 8 FGA he took )?

    Was Tinsley simply not looking for someone else other then JONeal to pass the ball to ( or was no one else simply open )?

    Did he lose confidence in Murphy and Dunleavy who have been shooting poorly lately?

    or

    Is the lack of ball-movement a result of Tinsley dominating the ball and simply going with option A ( look for JONeal ) and option B ( if JONeal isn't open...take a shot )?
    OR, Is he having to shoot more (many times to beat a shot clock) because there is no movement on offense? We have a lot of set shooters now, maybe they are standing at the 3 pt line too much.

    [/QUOTE]
    One more coincidence.....and I think this is something important to note.....but Tinsley's increased role in the offense ( basically taking 3 to 5 more FGA a game above his average 11 FGA and becoming a 1st/2nd scoring option ) not only corresponds with Murphy's recent nose injury ( and therefore his decreased role on offense where he is averaging about 4 FGA over the last 5 games )...but with Marquis being out of the lineup.

    I really wonder hope that Marquis comes back soon.....cuz I liked what we saw from the team when we weren't forced to play BOTH Tinsley and Armstrong on the floor at the same time.[/QUOTE]

    Bingo.

  15. #65

    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    If Tinsley is dominating the ball, it's because nobody else on the team can dribble. Well, other than Daniels. And we know he's been injured.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan View Post
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    OR, Is he having to shoot more (many times to beat a shot clock) because there is no movement on offense? We have a lot of set shooters now, maybe they are standing at the 3 pt line too much.
    That's the question....why hasn't there as much movement among the players?

    More importantly...when did this start happening?

    We have played only 9 games since the trade....the 1st game without the new players....and the 3rd one ...without Tinsley. That would leave about 7 games to look at.

    For those that have the games TIVOd or taped....can someone figure out when this happened?

    My guess is that the ball-movement stopped happening...for one reason or another....once Marquis got injured...and progressively worse as Murphy got injured. I get the sense that Marquis ( either directly or indirectly ) has something to do with this.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  17. #67

    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Dunleavy made 4 shots last night and Jamaal assisted 3 of them. He missed 11 shots. How many of those came from Jamaal?

    10 assists last night:

    3 to Dunleavy
    3 to Granger
    2 to JO
    1 to Armstrong
    1 to Murphy

    Again, I stopped taking stats by the Memphis game because my point was made, but if you want to talk stats let's do it.


    How many of Jamaal's assists came in the 1st quarter? 1.

    Who was it to? Jermaine O'Neal.

    When did it occur? 5:46 remaining in the 1st quarter.

    What was Golden State's lead after the 1st quarter? 16.

    How many did we lose by? 15.


    My point was to address the 1st quarter, which has been giving the Pacers problems all season long, and it's the reason we lost last night.

  18. #68
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    To those ripping Tinsley's selfishness, you have to ask:

    Why does the coach continue to allow it to happen?

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Just to point out the obvious.....and so that we don't place all of the blame on Tinsley's shoulders.....when you look at the "Hustle Board" on the Post-Game Analysis on Pacers.com:

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/insider_070205.html

    Points in the Paint: Pacers 36, Warriors 34
    Fast-break points: Pacers 22, Warriors 17
    2nd-chance points: Pacers 8, Warriors 10
    Points off turnovers: Pacers 25, Warriors 19
    Starters scoring: Pacers 76, Warriors 98
    Bench scoring: Pacers 22, Warriors 15
    If we actually had some more efficient offensive production from our starters ( most notably from Tinsley, Dunleavy and Murphy ) and Murphy/Foster rebounded better ( I didn't even notice that Foster played only 13 minutes )...we could have gotten closer. I am sure that the real reason we lost falls somewhere between Tinsley taking less shots then normal and the team...as a whole...actually hitting some shots when the ball is passed to them......but when we can't rebound or score....its harder for us to pull out a win....especially against a high-octane offense like the Warriors.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    ...so "rebounding" isnt good enough for the hustle board?

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    My point was to address the 1st quarter, which has been giving the Pacers problems all season long, and it's the reason we lost last night.
    Before you even brought it up....I emailed Bruno about this just a few minutes ago...hopefully he can answer it.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  22. #72
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...so "rebounding" isnt good enough for the hustle board?
    I guess.....I have no clue why the Pacers Website doesn't include this stat in the "Hustle Board"...I figure it was important as well

    FIXED:

    Points in the Paint: Pacers 36, Warriors 34
    Fast-break points: Pacers 22, Warriors 17
    2nd-chance points: Pacers 8, Warriors 10
    Points off turnovers: Pacers 25, Warriors 19
    Starters scoring: Pacers 76, Warriors 98
    Bench scoring: Pacers 22, Warriors 15
    Rebounding: Pacers 42, Warriors 57

    The key difference was in Defensive Rebounds....they had 16 more then we had.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Your rebound numbers are excluding "team" rebounds. We were really only outrebounded by five.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    My "odd thoughts" since I just skimmed two pages in this thread:

    DunDUn needs glasses. He has good form and height to his shot but they were all off line, just a bit, unless he was further out from the rim. I remember they discovered this about George McGinnis when he went thru a horrid shooting slump (toward the end of his career IIRC). I'm only half kidding about his need for glasses.

    JT was really really trying to stuff his stats toward the end of the game IMPO.

    As much as I loved DA's block, did you notice what he did immediately after? He yelled at Marshall (?) and then showed him how to block out his man on a jump ball. DA had to make that great play because someone had failed to box out on the jump ball down at our end. He will make US a great assistant someday.

    All you Colt fans that took up the normally available parking places...I hope y'all have the sniffles today.

    Tins gets the fastest plane outta here IMO.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

  25. #75

    Default Re: Odd thoughts from the Warriors game....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    Tinsley as become the new whipping boy now that Jackson is gone. When and if Tinsley is ever gone, someone else will take his place as the new whipping boy. I wouldn't expect anything less from this group of whiners and blamers.
    Having fans with the "whipping boy" mentality does not disguise the fact that Tinsley's played poorly all season. People who aren't fans of the Pacers have no problem seeing that; I'm not sure why some of us do or why we're making up excuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    Doesn't anyone realize that we lost or #2 and #3 scorers and with Quis out and Granger refusing to be more aggressive, that Tins is going to have to shoot more. Who else is going to score? Dun can't shoot for *****. Murphy looked like he didn't even want to be playing last night.

    I fail to see how this is different from 2004 or 2005. We had our top options out then, yet we had great ball movement from all of our players without them needing to be more aggressive.

    It's not that Danny is refusing to be aggressive, unless you think he should be stealing the ball from Tinsley. We're not getting the ball distribution that we've had in the past from Tinsley. Period.

    And I wouldn't blame Dunleavy or Troy for their low shooting %s. EVEN Jermaine has had an extremely low shooting % as of late, and it's because Jamaal has been missing passes at the elbow and he's been forcing the ball down into Jermaine and forcing him to make the play, rather than relying on good movement and waiting for Jermaine to get good position.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    Can't anyone see that it might take some time, at least a month or longer to even see what we have. Can anyone deny that we've played better since the trade? Does anyone really believe this the final product, after only a few weeks post trade?
    That would be an issue if it was consistent with the rest of the team, but it isn't. Darrell Armstrong has easily gotten the ball to move despite playing with 2 and sometimes 3 new players. It's just Tinsley.

    And regardless of the trade we still have some core issues that revolve around ball movement. We had to make an adjustment to our starting lineup at the beginning of the year because one of our wing players wasn't fitting in, while the other one had an extremely poor FG%. Then we make the adjustment, a new wing player complains about his role in the offense and states that he'll take it upon himself to score. He doesn't work out, and now we have 2 new wing players with the exact same problem. Yet when he have an alternate starting PG, our offense clicks and our wing players have good games.

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