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Thread: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

  1. #26
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    UB, what's your thought on the "handles" of Dun ?

    I agree with you that we've looked better ever since the trade, but that can also be attributed to the subtractions, or such, and not only the additions.

    I saw a drop when Murphy went down but then once Ike got established yesterday the total time between Murphy going down and this team playing better with him in the line-up wasn't there anymore, all of a sudden the double thread down low seemed to revitalize this team again and basically tells the opponents; pick your poision, double/triple JO and Ike and/or JT kill you or single JO and he'll take you down.

    I was amazed by how good JO and Ike "fitted" together down low.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Last night was my kind of game (except for the Pacers poor defense for about 42 minutes) Pacers scored 60 points in the paint, dominated the rebounding and dominated the inside play.
    i too found this interesting to play with a run/gun team like memphis is now and outscore them with less threes than we usually take (only 10 attempts). it was interesting because atkins and miller both shot a really high percentage from behind the arc too. but we did it in the paint.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    One of the reasons I think we look good with Dunlevey, is that he seems to always be in the right spot, especially on offense. That makes the whole thing flow better.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    One of the reasons I think we look good with Dunlevey, is that he seems to always be in the right spot, especially on offense. That makes the whole thing flow better.


    I also think he runs the plays that are called - he doesn't break the plays unlike a few of the players who were traded a couple of weeks ago. Mike waits for JO to get position and to "call for the ball" (thanks Hubie) and then he passes the ball to him, and if JO passes it back out Mike even throws it back to JO (re-posts) once he gets better position. That is great to see.

    Sure I want Dunleavy to make some shots and I think he'll shoot a little better % than he is right now (36%) - but he isn't Mike Miller and never will be - Dunleavy just isn't that good of a shooter -

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    I was amazed by how good JO and Ike "fitted" together down low.

    Me too. For some reason, I really didn't expect it to work. I thought their games wouldn't complement each other.....wrong! I think what amazed me more than anything was how good their defense was.

    We've seen Ike have some problems getting his shot blocked because of his size, and I thought it would create a bigger problem on the defensive end, but watching him and Jermaine in the paint was great. Ike's an intimidator. He's not the intimidator that Dale was but he reminds of Dale in that way. I'm definitely more than ready to see these guys play together. I really want to see them against a team that double-teams Jermaine. That will be the true test.



    Well, Tinsley played another great game. It's easier to watch when he's making his shots, but tonight it was how he took them. He had a couple of plays where he got overzealous with the ball, but that's it. And he's starting to have fun. You can tell because he starts pulling out his fancy moves when he's enjoying himself. And we've seen more of them every game. That dribble between Gasol's legs on the way to a layup was sweet.


    By the way, did anyone see Tinsley get fired up after Ike made that tough putback in the 4th quarter (the one where he kept following misses and put it up against multiple defenders)? That's easily the most I've ever Tinsley get excited. He was so into it..I couldn't believe it!


    Also, we've had 3 straight games with a fast break pass from Tinsley to Granger. And we had much, much better ball distribution in the first quarter. I hope he's starting to trust his teammates more. I really think that's Tinsley's big problem.



    I have worried about Dunleavy's dribbling..a little. He was fine in the first six games, but these past two he's had some problems passing off the dribble. His non-shooting game has struggled a little. But I think he's shown that he can dribble well. I don't think I've seen someone pick his pocket yet. Able, I'm not sure what you're talking about with his vision, because it's great. He might have the best court vision on the team. As far as shooting goes, he's shown in college and NBA that he can consistently hit 37% of his 3-pointers (even with the distance difference) and his FG% has been anywhere from 40-50%. His shooting is low with the Pacers, but it will improve.



    Two things about David Harrison:

    1- What is up with his weight? His arms look tiny now, and he looks like he's lost more weight since his injury than he lost in the entire off-season. I hope it's not an illness or something, because that is a lot of weight to lose.

    2- I noticed a difference in his agility for the first time. Even after his 25 lb. weight loss in the offseason, you could still see him struggling with his feet on defense. Well, not tonight. I consider 4 foul-less minutes, especially after such a long hiatus, to be a huge feat. And it was after the rest of our bigs got in foul trouble. I think his weight loss has enabled him to make better decisions. He looked more comfortable with his speed, which made him less reliable with his hands. I was very, very impressed with his short time on the court. Very.




    One last thing. Tonight was the first time (this season) I've been real excited about the Pacers. I feel like we've gotten a couple of wins lately that we wouldn't have before the trade. I haven't felt this good about the team since we made that second-half run in Reggie's last year. Even with the Super Bowl coming up, the Pacers are all I can think about.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    I think the reason Ike and JO fit together so well, is because Ike's post moves remind me a lot of Ron's. He is very good at using his weight and strength to move people and plus he has quick feet similarly to Ron. Ron and JO may have not always liked each other, but their talents functioned together very well when they played in the post together

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    I think the reason Ike and JO fit together so well, is because Ike's post moves remind me a lot of Ron's. He is very good at using his weight and strength to move people and plus he has quick feet similarly to Ron. Ron and JO may have not always liked each other, but their talents functioned together very well when they played in the post together
    Both JONeal and Diogu are very solid low-post players.....but similiar to when Harrington and JONeal wanted to be the primary low-post players on offense.....wouldn't we run into same type of problems when both are hovering near the low-post....either from an offensive and defensive POV?

    I always thought that it would be best to pair Diogu with either Foster or Baston....basically Big-Men garbagemen that rebounds and plays solid defense...instead of playing him with a player ( JONeal or Murphy ) that primarily needs the ball in his hand to be effective. The problem with Diogu is that he becomes an offensive blackhole when he gets the ball ( which I don't mind when he comes off the bench and playing along with and against backup players )...but when he plays with the likes of JONeal...I'm concerned that JONeal will be left to watching Diogu take shots.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    thing about my boy Dunleavy's shooting is that he really does not set his feet very well, good point out on who ever pointed that out as it is really true, ive watched every game he plays and seriously he has a nice shot, but i just don't know why it doesn't go in, his kind of shot is a push shot, he pushes the ball he aint a jump shooter like Mike miller and them.

    Ive been recommending this all season long last year that I think he should be hiring a shooting coach, someone like Hall Wissel, Chip Engelund or someone.

    as far as his one on one D, yah, i agree with you guys, i really think that he is really a bad one on one defender though he is a great team defender, he just gets beat a lot, but sometimes he moves his feet laterally good and can draw charges, he just haven;t really find a niche on this team.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Both JONeal and Diogu are very solid low-post players.....but similiar to when Harrington and JONeal wanted to be the primary low-post players on offense.....wouldn't we run into same type of problems when both are hovering near the low-post....either from an offensive and defensive POV?

    I always thought that it would be best to pair Diogu with either Foster or Baston....basically Big-Men garbagemen that rebounds and plays solid defense...instead of playing him with a player ( JONeal or Murphy ) that primarily needs the ball in his hand to be effective. The problem with Diogu is that he becomes an offensive blackhole when he gets the ball ( which I don't mind when he comes off the bench and playing along with and against backup players )...but when he plays with the likes of JONeal...I'm concerned that JONeal will be left to watching Diogu take shots.
    This could end up being a problem last night it worked tho. Rick, Tins, and Dun just made sure both Ike and JO got touches where they could be successful.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    He is very good at using his weight and strength to move people and plus he has quick feet similarly to Ron.
    Yes. This and his long wingspan more than make up for him not being a bit taller. Not to mention he's got some crazy fakes to go with the great footwork and he looks basically ambidextrous with his jumphook. And, finally, as has been noted already, he really works himself into deep position to begin with.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    This could end up being a problem last night it worked tho. Rick, Tins, and Dun just made sure both Ike and JO got touches where they could be successful.
    That's my concern....I don't know how well this is going to work in the long run. We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed to see how well it goes. My preference is to simply keep the scoring more balenced among the different lineups and therefore provide more scoring depth when JONeal is resting.

    I still want to see how Diogu plays when he has extended minutes with Foster or Baston against the backup players..
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by indy0731 View Post
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    This could end up being a problem last night it worked tho. Rick, Tins, and Dun just made sure both Ike and JO got touches where they could be successful.

    To me this is why we probably will not see Ike start. Thus the team can get JO established early in the game in the post. Then as the game goes Ike comes in with the second unit or if JO gets quick foul trouble. Then once the game gets going the pacers can force teams to keep two low block defenders in the game at the same time by posting either JO or Ike depending upon who guards who. And the good thing about this is even if the other team matches up JO is good enough shooter from the Ft line extended that they can run the pick and roll with Tin's and JO to help break down the defense thus either tins will get to the basket or JO will be left open for the wing jumper and if teams rotate to cover they will end up leaving Iko open down low or Granger for the spot up jumper if they don't rotate quickly.
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  13. #38
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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    The bottom line on starting Ike is this. It would be really nice to have a go to post player in the second unit and on the floor at all times. So there is no reason to start Ike this season at all. If things dictate it, Ike can finish the game with JO like last night

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    Default Re: Pacers/Grizz Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The bottom line on starting Ike is this. It would be really nice to have a go to post player in the second unit and on the floor at all times. So there is no reason to start Ike this season at all. If things dictate it, Ike can finish the game with JO like last night
    At this stage in his career....I really think that its best for him to simply play...as you suggested...off the second unit and for him ( and Carlsile ) to gain confidence in his game by simply by playing against "lesser" players in the 2nd lineup.

    We have the luxury of giving him enough minutes to simply develop him......but I don't think that we have the luxury to play him significant minutes ( much less start him ) at the expense of winning games ( unless he is simply abusing the opposing Frontline ). I really like what Ike can bring to the table....but the truth is that we have only seen him play extended minutes for 1 game against a rather sucky Grizzlies team that plays very little defense. He's going to make mistakes ( most likely similiar to the ones that Carisle has yanked Harrison for ).....but as long as Ike is consistently given 10 to 15 minutes a game for the rest of the season...I am in no rush to see him start...much less play give significant minutes.
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