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Thread: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

  1. #26
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    You do it when it works. It didn't work.
    Sounds easy 2 hours after the game is over. What about the theory that Murphy is needed to spread the floor - you know no one has to guard Jeff,

  2. #27
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    What a minute, what ever happened to the theory that as a coach you should play your players as usual and make the other team matchup with you
    That's when you have a legitimate chance of competing. It wasn't even close in this case.

    Now, you do want to keep a set rotation to improve continuity and team play. I like what RC is trying to do here. However, we cannot have huge gaps like this and expect to contend. We might also need to look at a change in the starting lineup if we want a set rotation.

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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I always read in this forum about how Rick is a terrible coach because he tries to matchup with the opponent - and then tonight Rick for the most part doesn't do that and he still gets criticized. So which is it. Should Rick match up with the other team or the other way around.
    You've got a good point, but I think you try to force the other team to match up to you because you feel you have an advantage in some aspect. Murphy isn't a mismatch for Rasheed Wallace on either end, and that's when I think you should try to minimize damage done to you from that position. That's why I think they should have put Jeff on Sheed and Murph in the 2nd unit.

  4. #29
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Sounds easy 2 hours after the game is over. What about the theory that Murphy is needed to spread the floor - you know no one has to guard Jeff,
    I think this is a learn-as-you-go for RC too. Murph on Sheed does not work....and there is no longer a Ben Wallace on the court for Murph to guard. Lesson learned.

  5. #30
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Sheed only shot 6 of 16 tonight. I'll take that

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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Sheed only shot 6 of 16 tonight. I'll take that
    Wow...so even though Murphy apparently played the worst defense of all time tonight, Sheed still didn't do that great. And he got a lot of calls.

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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Wow...so even though Murphy apparently played the worst defense of all time tonight, Sheed still didn't do that great. And he got a lot of calls.
    Easily explained.

    After burying 6 straight on Murphy he thought he was Kobe Bryant. ...then we started to guard him and he threw up bricks thinking he would get hot again.

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    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    He was actually 6-13 with 18 points while he and Murphy shared court time. JO blocked two of those misses and fouled him on the 3 point play. Some of those makes and misses came with Foster and JO guarding him on those possessions. I do know the Pistons targeted him defensively with Wallace, Webber and McDyess.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    we can talk about Murphy/sheed mismatch and such back and forth.. and a lot of other rick problems but the bottom line.. with all that we were tied with 6 minutes left in the game when JO picked up his 5th foul becuase of being a little over worked going against a almost regular tripple team and having to play hard defense. we take out JO for a few minutes which makes sense.. need him for the final 3 to 4 minutes game is still cloes...

    now down 2... Granger.. yes the granger we want to take shots misses a easy shot for him in the lane and we also miss the tip... come down.. give a easy shot to Hamilton .... granger again misses a shot and again we miss a easy tip.. come down webb scores on a easy shot...

    now down six and we are no longer in touch....

    this to me isn't really ricks fault much.. can't blame him we weren't able to convert two easy put backs and granger who has been hot for a number of games misses two shots in a row....

    then Duns misses a three and becuase like all night Murphy, foster and such have tired legs can' t jump as high they get a back tip on the rebound second posession and score and its mostly game over.... most of the offensive boards and such they got by out jumping us from behind or grabbing a ball we couldn't quite grab when in proper block out... i.e. williams flying in tipping the ball away from murphy right to a blocked out Mcdyess like in the first qtr...

    we also didn't help our selves much with the ft shooting and I agree it is strange that we took it to the basket as much as they did all game long and still didn't shoot as many ft's as they made....

    My main thing I take from this game is Detroit better not be over confident about this win.. they really didn't empress me as being that much better even though they won the game... mainly becuase they managed to score a lot more 2nd chance points then us though they only ended up getting 5 more offensive boards...
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    THE SUN!! IT WILL NEVER RISE AGAIN!!! OH NOO!!!!!

    It's pretty funny to read the reactions on here sometimes. I'm sure some of you would find fault in the coach if it was Jesus himself.

    Sheed shot 6-16, and hit two before RC made the adjustment and moved JO to him at the start of the second half.

  11. #36
    Tyrant maragin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    A bad coach? "Bad" is relative, and I'm not convinced he's a bad coach compared to other coaches. I thought that he did a fine job keeping us in this tough, back to back, road game.

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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    When Wallace paired with Webber or McDyess....who was guarding Webber or McDyess?

    Was it JONeal or Murphy?

    I was thinking that Murphy should always guard the lesser Big Man offensive threat and JONeal/Foster should always guard the bigger Big Man offensive threat. Although, McDyess and Webber were doing fairly well on the offensive end....I will always prefer to have JONeal guard Wallace over Murphy and take my chances with Murphy covering McDyess or Webber.

    Besides...I don't know if that was a major factor in the loss.....it was ONE of the factors...but it wasn't the sole reason we lost. I think that Dunleavy and Murphy shooting a combind 6-13 FGA from the field and not being as much of an offensive factor in the game didn't help our cause.

    Tinsley seemed to do okay...although Billups scored 18 points...he only took 7 FGA but went 10-10 from the FT line. If billups was lighting us up...then I would have a major concern....but since Billups wasn't as much of an offensive option ( where Rip, Webber and Sheed were )...I can't really complain about Tinsley. He took 13 FGA and made 7 of them.

    Surprisingly...we did outrebound them....46 to 41. To tell you the truth...I think there were several factors in our loss ( Murphy covering Rasheed.....some coaching mistakes by Carlisle...Dunleavy and Murphy not being as much of an offensive option on the floor ) ...but I don't think any of the ones mentioned in this thread was main cause for the loss.

    Despite pulling close twice throughout the game.....I just think that we lost simply because the Pistons ( like always ) was able to execute and complete plays at critical times of the game when they had to.
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  13. #38
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Isn't it Jay that always says (or is it BBall?) that Carlisle always does the right thing, but it always takes him two or three games to figure it out?

    My guess is you saw in this situation Rick giving Murphy every chance to prove his rep wrong--that he could find a way to at least neutralize Sheed.

    He didn't. Rick will take note of it and come playoffs or before, you won't see that mistake again.

    To be fair to Rick, now is the time to test all your pieces before chucking certain options.
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I always read in this forum about how Rick is a terrible coach because he tries to matchup with the opponent - and then tonight Rick for the most part doesn't do that and he still gets criticized. So which is it. Should Rick match up with the other team or the other way around.
    I cant believe you cant tell the difference between not falling for the go small trap (which Rick regularly does) and playing a better big when needed. Jeff is the better rebounder and we have been getting killed on the boards at the ends of games because he has not been playing Jeff then. We get close with Jeff in the game and he puts Murphy in and we lose the battle.

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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    You mean killed on the boards like Murph having 10 rebs in 27mins compared to Foster's 9rebs in 23 mins?

    For those keeping track at home, Foster is .02reb/min better.

    I'm sure those .02 rebounds would have been a 7pt difference.

  16. #41

    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I always read in this forum about how Rick is a terrible coach because he tries to matchup with the opponent - and then tonight Rick for the most part doesn't do that and he still gets criticized. So which is it. Should Rick match up with the other team or the other way around.
    I totally agree with you UB. It amazes me how many people on here think they know how to coach a professional basketball team and how easy all the decisions are after the game is over.

    If those of you who criticize Rick are so damn smart why aren't you coaching an NBA team yourself (I am sure it pays more than 99% of what people on this board make). People think that just because they watch a game 4-5 times a week it makes them an expert. I have been watching the discovery channel (surgeries). By some peoples reasoning I should be your doctor!

    I do not mean for this post to belittle anyone. I believe that this is this best message board for ANY pro sports teams. The discussion on here is generally very well thought out but come on.

  17. #42
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Isn't it Jay that always says (or is it BBall?) that Carlisle always does the right thing, but it always takes him two or three games to figure it out?

    My guess is you saw in this situation Rick giving Murphy every chance to prove his rep wrong--that he could find a way to at least neutralize Sheed.

    He didn't. Rick will take note of it and come playoffs or before, you won't see that mistake again.

    To be fair to Rick, now is the time to test all your pieces before chucking certain options.


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    (Technically, I don't know that it takes 2 or 3 games for him to 'figure it out' but it seems it takes that for him to act)
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  18. #43

    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by colonialspacers View Post
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    Another reason why Carly is a bad couch is because he has no desire to play younger players even in situations where they seem to be having a good night and would benefit even more from increased play.

    Well, that might be a factor (although he did start a 24-year-old and had an entire starting lineup comfortably under the age of thirty, but whatever).

    But I would argue that the biggest reason why Carly is a bad couch is that he is a human being and therefore is uncomfortable to sit on.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    How quickly people jump off the bandwagon..anxious to say "I told you so" after one loss....Sad....worthy of Kraptiz..

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    But I would argue that the biggest reason why Carly is a bad couch is that he is a human being and therefore is uncomfortable to sit on.
    dude... have you tried?

    granted, a carlisle couch isn't as nice as the leather riley couch in miami...
    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    But I would argue that the biggest reason why Carly is a bad couch is that he is a human being and therefore is uncomfortable to sit on.

    I wanted to do something like that.... then I realized it wasn't funny...then you did it and I laughed.

    I will now post something on topic. I think Carlisle is the wrong coach.

    1)We have just completed the third major shakeup during his tenure. Most parties involved have had few kind words regarding their time spent playing for him. These players range in maturity levels, professional experience, talent levels and skill sets.
    2)The Indiana Pacers are in a rut. They aren't a bottom feeder team but they are equidistant from being a true title contender. This most recent trade didn't really move them up or down the totem pole.
    3)There's an old saying that goes something like this....If you say it enough people will eventually believe it's true...Rick's developed a reputation as a bad guy to play for. Negative environments find ways to fester.
    4)I don't like his haircut.

  22. #47
    Tyrant maragin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Carlisle would have to put on some pounds to be a good couch, imo.

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    Although he's on paid leave currently, the best NBA couch in recent years is Stan Van Gundy.


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  23. #48
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    After that tangent, I lost my train-of-thought.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  24. #49
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Okay, I got it back.

    I view the Murphy/ Wallace fiasco differently. And for once, I'm happy with what Rick did.

    Eventually, Murphy is going to have to guard Wallace in a playoff game. Has Murphy (or Dunleavy) ever played in a Pistons-Pacers game before? I think they got a bit of an education as to what they're going to need to do to help the team - not something you get when playing an underachieving Miami team or a Toronto team that is nowhere near as good as their record.

    It would've been even more maddening if Rick would've tossed in the towel. If that's the case, we might as well never play our normal starting five against Detroit ever again.

    No. For a change, Rick (whether intentional or not), had the intestinal fortitude to stick with his guys long enough for them to learn just how much they'll have to improve to match up with the likes of 'Sheed and Prince.

    Its up to the players - Murphy and Dunnleavy, to respond now. My hunch is that by games #2 and #3 against Detroit, we'll see some differences in how those guys are playing.

    But we ain't gonna beat Detroit without them. Eventually, they collectively have to find a way to exploit Dunn and Murphy on offense without giving up any ground defensively.

    I don't care at all that we lost that game, I'm looking forward to the adjustments the next time we play them.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  25. #50
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few Reasons Why Rick Carlisle is a Bad Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy View Post
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    Well that's what the Pistons did to us...
    I'm with Buck on this. Two teams impose their will, one of them wins that battle. That's the talent losing out which then means that the coach will have to "gimmick" the lesser talent to a win since head to head it ain't happening.

    No one is saying "Sheed couldn't guard Murph and it took Flip 3 quarters to figure that out". So right there you have fans admitting that Rick is the coach with LESS TALENT that got a road game within reach down the stretch.


    Here's my problem with this thread though and I'm sincere on this. The last time Dat started a thread a lot like this was right after JO got his rear-end handed to him on the offensive boards in Chicago as they blew that game down the stretch. ("What is a rebound")

    Now here we have this quick blame on the coaching again and what do I see out of JO AT THE START OF THE GAME (ie, before any adjustment period)?

    1 of 6 as the team only scores 12 points. JO is the team's superstar, he's the #1 option. He's supposed to be better than anything Detroit has and he started that game 1 of 6 and put the team in a monster hole to start the game.

    I honestly can't think of any times this season that I've thought JO flopped more than this game (mainly to start) and that Chicago game (at the end), and I thought that as I watched the game last night long before reading this thread.

    So my reaction to it is like this is some kind of deflection from Dat's favorite guy or something. Like hit Rick so people don't point a finger at "god".

    Things like "Chris Webber blocks Jermaine O'Neal's layup" shouldn't be in the play by play of an elite PF.


    But instead we get "Rick blew it because he didn't get Danny touches" (Danny got a shot before JO even and had Sheed block it, then missed a tech FT too) and "Rick didn't adjust in time". Maybe. Maybe he should have benched JO sooner before he had a Tinsley 4th to start the game.

    Part of JO's foul trouble can be attributed to his OFFENSIVE foul right at the start of the game. Another possession he blew that doesn't go in the FG%.




    note - I don't think he should have benched JO of course, I just think that the Pistons have a solid frontline and outplayed the Pacers, with the problem amplified by having to use Marshall instead of Quis.

    I just don't see how you watch that game and think "coach choked" with 12 first quarter points. They won the game after the first quarter, looks like adjustment was the one thing they did right.

    Detroit shot 37% and people are blaming defense, blaming the Murph/Sheed matchup (Sheed went 6 of 16)? What about TWELVE FREAKING POINTS to start the game?



    They didn't sub at 79-79 BTW, not till it was 79-81. After that point Granger missed 2 shots on back to back possessions (not tip backs either), DunDun missed his 3pt chance, and Tins had a double dribble and then a Sheed steal off of him for 2 critical TOs that basically sealed the game.

    Put that on the coach for having his starting backcourt out there in the final minutes I guess.

    They went FOUR MINUTES from basically 6 to 1 left without scoring a point. DG got touches, Tins has to play because DA had already played a ton of minutes for his age and had just come out because of that.

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