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Thread: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Dude can use sentences more than 5 words long! Who knew?

    http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=10928

    So there I was, lying in my bed in Malibu with my dogs, watching Mr. Bush's State of the Union speech. I thought it was darned good. Realistic, gracious, modest, sensible. I happen to think we should get out of Iraq yesterday, but I thought Mr Bush put forward his case well. And Congress responded graciously and generously on both sides of the aisle.

    Then, whaam, as soon as the speech was over, ABC was bashing him, telling us how pathetic he was, how irrelevant he was, how weak he was, how unrealistic he was.
    Love to hear some reactions on the article. I'm not well-informed, because I didn't watch the SotU, and I don't watch any network news shows except Daily/Colbert. But what he's saying seems to ring true for the little amount of national TV I watch.
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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Dude can use sentences more than 5 words long! Who knew?

    http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=10928


    Love to hear some reactions on the article. I'm not well-informed, because I didn't watch the SotU, and I don't watch any network news shows except Daily/Colbert. But what he's saying seems to ring true for the little amount of national TV I watch.
    One thing I like about Ben Stein is that he tells the truth, and doesn't really seem worried about liberal vs. conservative, democrat vs. republican.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Dude can use sentences more than 5 words long! Who knew?
    Are you serious, Anthem? Stein is a brilliant guy -- most people only know of him as an actor (see Forrest Buehler) or as a Comedy Channel guy, but the fact is he is an extremely bright guy. He was valedictorian of his class at Yale Law School, later worked in the Nixon administration (where his father was one of Nixon's top economic advisors), has written numerous books on weighty topics, has been a syndicated columnist for years, and has been a law school professor. The piece you link to is typical of his style. He can definitely string together sentences!

    I agree with his points in the article. There are many positive things going on in the country -- see Stein's cites to the economy, unemployment, etc. -- yet the media does not see fit to report on these successes. This is part of the ongoing complaint conservatives (even conservatives who are critical of Bush on some of his policies) have against the media. Question: now that the November election is long over, and the Dems have retaken control, what's the word on Mark Foley? The media did a drum beat for weeks prior to the election, actively misreported the facts (not that they were flattering by any means), actively ignored historical examples of worse conduct (see Gerry Studds, whose actual conduct was far worse than Foley's but who was reelected many times), etc. etc. I don't mean to get off point on your thread, Anthem, but the Stein article is simply one more series of observations regarding selective media bias that has become a fact of life.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Weird. He wants us out of Iraq yesterday, but he thinks the speech was just fine? Americans are dying as he speaks, as he joins a grateful nation in thanking the founder of Baby Einstein, and Ben Stein thinks the speech was hunky dory? And since when has Stein not been a hard right conservative?

    This speech didn't mean a damn thing. It's covered like a Superbowl because of the legacy of important speeches, but Bush's speech that matter was already given. He announced he will escalate the war, defying congress and the will of the American people (not to mention the Iraqis) if necessary. And I'm supposed to care that he talked pretty talk to Pelosi. He signs a bill barring him from opening first class mail without a warrant and then announces that he WILL open first class mail without a warrant, but I'm supposed to get all upset that someone on ABC didn't think the State of the Union was quite up to the level of Reagan? Give me a break.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Ball View Post
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    He announced he will escalate the war, defying congress and the will of the American people (not to mention the Iraqis) if necessary.
    Honestly, who gives a flying ******* about the will of the people? Obviously the will of the people thought he was the BEST candidate to make important decisions, and he's doing his freaking job.

    Either STFU about the "will of the people," and him ignoring it. Or come up with a better plan on how foreign policies are made.

    I know, let's just hold a freaking poll that every American can vote in, and whatever policy gets the majority of the vote will be put into place.

    There will be no need for elected officials, and the "will of the people" will be put into place every time.

    I, and I'm sure I'm not alone, can't give two ****s more about what some poll from CNN say's the US population wants.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Honestly, who gives a flying ******* about the will of the people?
    Ladies and gentlemen, the first plank of the Republican Party platform.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Ball View Post
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    Ladies and gentlemen, the first plank of the Republican Party platform.
    You're gonna try and tell me that Clinton made policies on what he thought the American people wanted? You can't be that clueless.

    As an elected official, you don't rule the way the majority want. You make YOUR OWN decisions that you think are the best for the nation. The public doesn't always have the whole story, and don't have all the information needed to make a decision. Whether you agree with him or not, he was elected by the people who thought he was the best man to make those decisions.

    That's why we're known as a representative democracy, instead of just a democracy.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    At the rate Bush is going, he'll never serve another term as president...

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    At the rate Bush is going, he'll never serve another term as president...
    Nice.

    Also, gotta agree with Since86 on this one. It's the first plank of both parties.
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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    I enjoy that when the polls were for the war Bush was pandering and now the polls are against it Bush is defying the will of people.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    I enjoy that when the polls were for the war Bush was pandering and now the polls are against it Bush is defying the will of people.
    I challenge you to find a single example of someone complaining that Bush was pandering by invading Iraq. Find me a single example. One...single...example. There were pretty of complaints about Clinton pandering by always going along with public opinion (the nerve!), but I never heard a single person claim that the war in Iraq was an example of pandering.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheer
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    Now a popular "wartime" president, he is apparently dead set on launching another massive air war on a rogue nation--a costly endeavor that, whether it hinders terrorism or not, could cinch his reelection and place in the history books.
    http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcol...mns/050702.htm

    Do I get a half eaten cookie now?
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Ball View Post
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    Ladies and gentlemen, the first plank of any politicians regardless of who they may be afaliated with platform.
    Fixed.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Ball View Post
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    I challenge you to find a single example of someone complaining that Bush was pandering by invading Iraq. Find me a single example. One...single...example. There were pretty of complaints about Clinton pandering by always going along with public opinion (the nerve!), but I never heard a single person claim that the war in Iraq was an example of pandering.
    Here ... is ... another ... single ... example. (There ... are ... many ... more ... examples). Do a little google, you are way off on this one, 3B:

    But [Ronald] Reagan [Jr. EDIT: well known he-man] has strong feelings about Bush's policies, including the war in Iraq, which he ardently opposes. "Nine-11 gave the Bush people carte blanche to carry out their extreme agenda -- and they didn't hesitate for a moment to use it. I mean, by 9/12 Rumsfeld was saying, 'Let's hit Iraq.' They've used the war on terror to justify everything from tax cuts to Alaska oil drilling."
    http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feat...gan/index.html

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    I fail to see anywhere in this quote where Bush is accused of pandering by invading Iraq. In fact, I believe the quote is saying that Bush used 9-11 as an excuse to push his agenda in other areas., which is pretty hard to deny. Are you claiming that there was some giant public outcry to invade Iraq and Bush just went along for the ride? Or are you saying that Bush was pandering to his cronies by invading Iraq? I'm sorry, I have no idea how your quote relates to the discussion at hand.

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Ball View Post
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    I fail to see anywhere in this quote where Bush is accused of pandering by invading Iraq. In fact, I believe the quote is saying that Bush used 9-11 as an excuse to push his agenda in other areas., which is pretty hard to deny. Are you claiming that there was some giant public outcry to invade Iraq and Bush just went along for the ride? Or are you saying that Bush was pandering to his cronies by invading Iraq? I'm sorry, I have no idea how your quote relates to the discussion at hand.
    Agreed. Neither of those articles claim that Bush did what the article said because the public wanted it. Bat Boy's is close, but the claim is that Bush was using 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq, not that people demanded that we go to war with Iraq, and Bush said "ok, I guess we will". Arcadian's article isn't pandering, it's Wag the Dog, which I've been accusing Bush of for years.

    I think the closest thing you're going to find to pandering would be the initial outcry to do something about terrorism and our manhunt for Osama bin Laden. Even then, however, that's not really pandering, because the wishes of the people happened to coincide with Bush's gameplan.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

    The quote I put up said Bush went into Iraq for re-election I consider that accusing someone of pandering.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

    The quote I put up said Bush went into Iraq for re-election I consider that accusing someone of pandering.
    Actually, it's more like what your definition of pandering is. If Bush started a war to help his reelection chances, it's certainly evil and bullying, but it isn't pandering.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Pander: 2 To cater to the lower tastes and desires of others or exploit their weaknesses.

    http://education.yahoo.com/reference...y/entry/pander

    Bush was accussed of generating a war to stir nationalism and the public's desire to get someone. By Houghton Mifflin's definition that is pandering. But then again they could be a right leaning dictionary.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Ben Stein on the State of the Union

    Here is the quote: But [Ronald] Reagan [Jr. EDIT: well known he-man] has strong feelings about Bush's policies, including the war in Iraq, which he ardently opposes. "Nine-11 gave the Bush people carte blanche to carry out their extreme agenda -- and they didn't hesitate for a moment to use it. I mean, by 9/12 Rumsfeld was saying, 'Let's hit Iraq.' They've used the war on terror to justify everything from tax cuts to Alaska oil drilling."

    Show me the accusation of pandering.

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