Fair enough. Agree that the "nimrod" thing was out of line, although I don't think Quis meant it like you took it.
When you said "Bosh got in on his own merit", though, I must admit I thought "Well, he's the only one!"
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Arenas (because his offense has been really efficient and his team wins when he takes over like that.)
JO would be in over Howard IMO simply because the teams have played already and JO had great games vs Howard in the wins. JO is putting up 20/10 AND leading in blocks and probably close to leading in charges taken.
Probably the top 2 MVP candidates, MAJOR aspects of the 2 winningest teams (and teams running away from the pack even), and neither one gets voted in. Stupid.
ALL STAR voting is a joke. It is purely a popularity contest. JO without a doubt should start over BOSH. BOSH is good, but JO is better!
All Star voting is for the fans. People wanna see Bosh, let them see Bosh. And Shaq is gonna start til he retires. Frankly, I'm fine with that. I'd rather see Diesel acting a clown on the bench during an exhibition than watch half these guys do anything. He's always good for one attempt at a coast-to-coast. Generally entertaining.
JO, Howard, Nash and Dirk will all be there, so it's not a big deal. Nash said he doesn't even wanna really go anyway. I doubt he plays more than 15 minutes or so. DWade and Kobe can't be very eager to spend their days off playing basketball either.
Half the people who vote for this stuff don't really follow basketball anyway, they just vote for the players from their home town. The All-NBA Teams are the things that have lasting significance in my eyes.
I'm wondering why my post was deleted, but Quis is free to colour all Canadians as "nimrods." I don't see how my post was anymore instigative than his. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me.
Though I will be fair to see that I missed that part in Quis' post and go re-visit that, but I was more cought up in you using profanity in your post, something that is for a reason on most alike words "prohibited". making it into one word seem to have helped, it will be altered though.
And taken care of.
So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.
If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!
I'd rather watch Arenas than Billups in the all-star game.
"Oh, and conspiracy theorists? The NBA's Final Four are Miami (#16 TV market), Indiana (#26), San Antonio (#36), Memphis (#49). #tinfoil"
"See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "
No one deserves 3 straight MVP's. Hell, Jordan never got 3 straight MVPS (87, 91, 92, 96, 98).
Giving him 3 straight MVP's is basically a slap in the face to the other great players in the league. Is he that much better than everyone else where he deserves to win 3 straight MVP's?
05 I pick Shaq, last year I pick Kobe (I guess being the first to average 35 since MJ in 88 isn't good enough), this year I'd go with Arenas or Wade so far.
I'd concede one of those to him, but 3? That's ridiculous. Giving him 3 in a row is basically saying that he is at a superior level to the other elite players in the league. He is not. That's a slap in the face to guys like Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, etc, guys who have busted their a**es for the last few years, but have never won the award.
Hell, the Mavs got to the finals 2 years after he left with Jason Terry at the PG.
I dunno, I just see it as entertainment more than an honor.
If you really want to be recogonized for your achievements, prove you're one of the Top 15 players in the League and get yourself voted onto the All-NBA squad.
No...Nash and Dirk are of course. And they will both be 1st Team All-NBA guys.
That was my point, there's a big difference between being All-NBA and being an All-Star. To me, one is an honor for an achievement, the other is a popularity contest. One is about your legacy/historic standing in this League, the other is about entertainment.
The quintessential example here is always Vince. Check his page on basketball-reference. Counting this year, he's an 8-time All Star...but as far as All NBA teams, he doesn't even have as many as Mitch Richmond (5 All-NBA teams, 6 All-Star games) Chris Mullin (4 All-NBA teams, 4 All Star games), Mark Price (4 All-NBA teams, 4 All Star games) Jermaine O'Neal (3 All-NBA teams, 5 All Star games) or even Penny Hardaway (3 All-NBA teams, 4 All-Star games).
And while I'm certain VC will make more All Star game rosters, I highly doubt he'll ever make another All-NBA team. And I'm fine with that. Because even though Vince Carter is by no means historically great, he is unequivocally historically entertaining.
So you think that fans voting in non-Toronto Canada ignored the fact that Chris Bosh was playing on a Canadian team when voting? Or do you think that there aren't NBA fans in Canada outside of Toronto?
Do you agree that Yao & TMac get more votes than they otherwise would because of China?
Yao and T-Mac and Chris Bosh are totally different scenarios. The Yao and T-Mac thing is obvious because guys like Shane Battier and David Wesley finish near the top as well. As for your view on Canadians voting for Bosh. Why is TJ Ford is nowhere to be seen? He has so few votes he doesn't even show up on the voting results. Same for Morris Peterson. Steve Nash couldn't even crack the top 3 in the West with his Canadian support. You'd think the Canadians that you claim vote en masse for Bosh would be voting for these players too.
You definitely overstate Canada's view on Bosh too. 80% of Canadians probably have no idea who he is. 90% probably couldn't pick him out of a police lineup. He certainly is not held in the same regard in Canada as Yao is in China. Outside of Toronto, where Bosh is immensely popular, as any star basketball player is in his home city would be, he's relatively anonymous.
I would love it if you could produce any evidence whatsoever to back up your claims of voting irregularites coming from Canada, because I'm certainly not seeing it. Saying all the Canadians voted for Bosh is an obvious statement, that doesn't really mean anything. It's like saying all fans from Indiana voted for O'Neal. Of course they did. Heck, I could make a stronger argument that fans from Indiana inflated O'Neal's numbers since basketball is held in high regard in Indiana, whereas in Canada basketball is still viewed as a niche sport. Obviously such an argument is completely ludicrous, but I hope you're beginning to see my point.
The MVP is about who is the most valuable player. Not the most superior player. Nash is the MVP this year, again, for the third time in a row. 2 years ago doesn't matter, last year doesn't matter. Only this year matters.
You mention the Mavs getting to the Finals two years after Nash left. Did they get there because Nash left? Also, did you know that the year before Nash arrived in Phoenix they were 29-53. With Nash in town they were 54-28 in his first year in town and 62-20 the following year.
I just don't see how anyone can discount what Nash has done this year just because he has won 2 other MVPs. What matters is this year. Sorry that Lebron, or Shaq, or Wade, or Kobe haven't been MVPs 2-3 times. That doesn't mean that Nash can't. I know the media doesn't hype up Nash like they do Kobe, Lebron, and the others but that doesn't mean Nash isn't the MVP this year.
To me, saying that Nash shouldn't win a third MVP in a row because he has already won it two other times is like saying that you don't like the New England Patrioits because they have won 3 Superbowls. Everyone wants to see greatness but then when it is there they get sick of it quickly.
I see your point. It is true that I can't produce hard evidence since they don't break down the voting.
Obviously, basketball fans who vote for the All-Stat game are biased by their "local" players. You said yourself that Rocket players get a huge boost. I would claim that Toronto gets a decent boost, while Indiana gets no boost. And that just happens to match up with the populations of those areas in relation to the average team's fan base.
"Saying all the Canadians voted for Bosh is an obvious statement, that doesn't really mean anything. It's like saying all fans from Indiana voted for O'Neal. Of course they did."
It does mean something, because there are 33 million people in Canada and 6 million in Indiana.
I would break down my thoughts further, but I have to work for now. If anyone can step in here, that would be cool.
I will say that Chris Bosh is in the ballpark of the elite forwards in the East, and he deserves it about as much as the other 3-4 guys who could have been in that slot. I also don't think the extensive Canada fan base is the entire reason he got voted in.
Giving Nash 3 straight MVP's is saying that he is at a superior level to everyone else in the league.
Why does Nash deserve the award more than Arenas? Arenas does just as much for the Wiz as Nash does. The Wiz would be terrible without him.
Why does Nash deserve the award more than Wade? Wade has kept the Heat alive, and they will probably end up making the playoffs because he kept the team in contention. Wade keeping an awful team alive is much more impressive than what Nash has done this year.
Jordan could have technically been the MVP every year. But the voters atleast acknowledged a couple years in which other guys in the league were the soul behind their teams as well, such as Barkley in 93, or the Mailman in 97.
3 straight MVP's? That's a joke.