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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Mike Dunleavy Jr.

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  • #16
    Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

    Originally posted by Tony Valente View Post
    I was arguing people on a Romanian forum, who keep saying that this was a "racist trade". They say Utah and Indiana are the most racist states with NBA teams (and that KKK originates from Indiana). So they insist that the sole reason Larry did this trade was because the fans weren't coming to games and now, with two white starters, they should identify themselves more with the team, or some bulls**t like that.

    I tried to tell them that I bet Indiana fans would love a 15 black men champion team instead of a mixed-color mediocre one. I really doubt there is any truth in those speculation, so I ask you, the ones living in the state of Indiana, what's your opinion on that?

    Three words:

    REG-GIE! REG-GIE! REG-GIE!
    The Miller Time Podcast on 8 Points, 9 Seconds:
    http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/tag/miller-time-podcast/
    RSS Feed
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    • #17
      Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

      Well Tony, you can tell them that the KKK orignated from Tennessee. Elwood IN is/was (not for sure which) the national headquarters, but what strikes me as funny is the Elwood high school's mascot is the Black Panther.

      Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

        The only thing this team is really missing now is a PG who can make it all work. We've got some good role players in Dunleavy, Murphy, and Foster..and we've got some scoring from JO and Granger..we just need a PG who can do the right thing. I'm no longer convinced Tinsley is the right PG for this type of team. I think Tinsley would be great in another system playing faster basketball.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
          Time for a quick lesson on Basketball 101 ( only cuz I don't know )

          Can someone explain to me the difference between being a good "one on one" defender and someone that can play good team defense?

          Is it possible to be a good "team defender" but not a good "one on one" defender?

          Do you think that Dunleavy has the Basketball IQ and smarts to be one?

          To be a good team defender...does it require as much Basketball IQ as it does actual physical skills?

          UB did a good job of breaking it down. I would say that being at least a competent one-on-one defender is a pre-requiste to being a good team defender, because if your one-on-one defense is weak, teams are going to run their offense through the guy you are guarding, making your team defense pretty worthless.

          I would say that Artest and Bruce Bowen are two of the best one-on-one defenders. JO and Ben Wallace are two great help defenders whose one-on-one defense is only average. Off the top of my head, only two people are great at both: Tim Duncan and AK-47 (which is why Andrei's season is so disapointing to some). I think Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace can grow into this elite class.
          The Miller Time Podcast on 8 Points, 9 Seconds:
          http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/tag/miller-time-podcast/
          RSS Feed
          Subscribe via iTunes

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          • #20
            Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

            Originally posted by Since86 View Post
            Well Tony, you can tell them that the KKK orignated from Tennessee. Elwood IN is/was (not for sure which) the national headquarters, but what strikes me as funny is the Elwood high school's mascot is the Black Panther.

            Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

            The main KKK that we know today was actually founded in Georgia.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

              I guess I should have worded it differently, but I assumed it was Tenn. since the founder was from there.

              EDIT: Although it doesn't matter, the first KKK convention was held in Nashville.


              Sorry, I love anything/everything about the Civil War.

              EDIT#2: DunDun is quickly becoming my favorite Pacer. Although he hasn't been shooting well, he uses his teammates for his shots. He isn't a Jax like player, that catches the ball on the wing and tries to go one-on-one, using that stupid fake step move over and over again. He moves off ball screens really well, looking for the shot. Once he starts knocking that down consistantly, it will be a very hard play to stop with JO setting the screen, because the roll will open up.

              I can't believe I read in another thread that his ball handling was suspect. He isn't going to cross anyone up anytime soon, but he's very efficient with it. Isn't flashy, just gets the job done. I really like the backcourt lineup of him and Quis, and it showed with the level of offensive play.
              Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                Originally posted by Tony Valente View Post
                I was arguing people on a Romanian forum, who keep saying that this was a "racist trade". They say Utah and Indiana are the most racist states with NBA teams (and that KKK originates from Indiana). So they insist that the sole reason Larry did this trade was because the fans weren't coming to games and now, with two white starters, they should identify themselves more with the team, or some bulls**t like that.

                I tried to tell them that I bet Indiana fans would love a 15 black men champion team instead of a mixed-color mediocre one. I really doubt there is any truth in those speculation, so I ask you, the ones living in the state of Indiana, what's your opinion on that?
                Ask your Romanian forumites to explain the Colts situation then. People seem to be following them just fine.

                The Pacer problem has been the character of the product on the floor... not the color of it.

                -Bball
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

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                • #23
                  Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                  I also really like the way the Dunleavy takes the ball to the basket when he gets the chance. It seems like we were missing somebody that would just take the ball to the hole. I think Dunleavy has brought that and I really like it.
                  "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right ones."

                  -Herb Brooks

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                    Originally posted by Tony Valente View Post
                    I was arguing people on a Romanian forum, who keep saying that this was a "racist trade". They say Utah and Indiana are the most racist states with NBA teams (and that KKK originates from Indiana). So they insist that the sole reason Larry did this trade was because the fans weren't coming to games and now, with two white starters, they should identify themselves more with the team, or some bulls**t like that.

                    I tried to tell them that I bet Indiana fans would love a 15 black men champion team instead of a mixed-color mediocre one. I really doubt there is any truth in those speculation, so I ask you, the ones living in the state of Indiana, what's your opinion on that?
                    Hoosiers are probably the most knowledgeable among basketball fans. As long as the players are playing with effort and with the best interest of the team in mind, they don't care about the color of the players.

                    If a player is selfish and dogs it, it doesn't matter what color he is, he's not going to be liked.

                    Cro and Runi have probably taken about as much heat on this board as anyone. Well, maybe other than Jax.
                    .

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                      One thing I liked to hear is that he loves the coaching staff and he also said Rick coaches basketball like he's used to. Not sure if that means like coach K or like his dad or what
                      That is probably the best sign, I agree. The problem has been more about buying in to the system than about it working, and I think some players bailed on it when other issues caused things to not work well (suspensions, injuries, chemistry). The bad situation created a negative association with everything that was going on with the team, at least that's my guess at it.

                      Any coherent system will be more effective than none at all, even if it's more fun for the players to play that way (ie, Al's attitude).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                        I knew you all would love Dun once you seen him play. He is very much like Derrick McKey was, in the sense that you cant really appreciate everything he does by looking at box scores. You have to see him play to fully grasp all the little things he does to make the team better. He understands how the game is supposed to be played.

                        The only thing that has surprised me about him thus far is that he is more athletic than I was lead to believe.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                          They say Utah and Indiana are the most racist states
                          Don't tell Tony Dungy or the fans that love him. Don't tell that grandma that was Ron's neighbor and apparently loved the guy.

                          It's out there, but it's not strong in the core fanbase within the city IMO.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                            People in Romania have opinions about racism in Indiana?

                            How wild.
                            This space for rent.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                              I would say that being at least a competent one-on-one defender is a pre-requiste to being a good team defender,
                              I strongly disagree and here's why.

                              One on one is just about you and the guy in front of you. If you bite the upfake, get beat off the first step, fall off on a jab step to free a guy for the step-back shot, gamble for steals, etc then you are a bad one on one defender.

                              But you can still know this and know the defensive system created specifically to help alleviate these problems by complementing players. So you can overplay a guy so when he beats you he must go toward the spot you want him to go, where he will be picked up by a shot blocker, or where he must make a longer pass or take a tougher shot.

                              He can get by you just as quickly as ever, but by playing him with the other 9 players in mind you lesson the impact of your one on one mismatch. A smart but slow player takes advantage of the team situations in order to better defend his man than if it was just he and the opponent alone on the court.

                              On top of this is of course the ability close spaces, come with help defense and other team defense actions away from the ball. Blocking out a bigger guy so your own big can get the rebound, cutting off the dump off passing lane so your big can go for the shot block, etc. You don't have to be fast to do those things, just aware that they need to be done on the fly.


                              And a great one on one defender can be a terrible team defender. You can pick pockets, move your feet in front of a guy and generally be a real nuiscence to him, but totally fail to read plays away from your man. You don't help on switches well, you don't double when it's called for, you don't force teams to space better by closing gaps, you don't deny passing lanes, and so on.

                              The man in front of you will suffer but meanwhile you let the rest of your team drown. It's actually typical of selfish players who have a ton of talent and are just worried about looking good for themselves, despite the idea that all defense is about a team attitude. It's not. Flashy players like to show off HIGHLIGHT defense, big blocks and steals, without making the team game more difficult for the opponent. "Wasn't my guy scoring"

                              One-on-one defense has more to do with physical gifts, quickness and so forth.
                              I don't fully agree with this either. It's the instinctive view, but the fact is that a lot of good one on one defenders learn smart methods of defending players and taking away what they want to do, with or without some great amount of talent. Thus you have players that get by on talent vs players that don't.

                              Pulling the chair in the post - classic SMART one on one defense.

                              And a player like AI plays good team defense almost entirely off his talent rather than smarts. He has the speed to cheat the lanes or to sneak in from the backside of the post to steal the entry pass, etc.


                              The traditional view is that smarts = team and talent = one on one, but they are both skills that are built on talent + smarts in some ratio that varies from player to player.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Mike Dunleavy Jr.

                                Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                                That is probably the best sign, I agree. The problem has been more about buying in to the system than about it working, and I think some players bailed on it when other issues caused things to not work well (suspensions, injuries, chemistry). The bad situation created a negative association with everything that was going on with the team, at least that's my guess at it.

                                Any coherent system will be more effective than none at all, even if it's more fun for the players to play that way (ie, Al's attitude).

                                That is an excellent explanation for what more than likely did occur, and I hadn't really thought of it in those terms.

                                Comment

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