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Thread: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    I have been granted the authority to speak on behalf of the management of Pacers Digest (all Hail the founder Hicks).

    Basically what it boils down to is this. We've taken a look around the Pacers Digest & frankly we don't like a lot of what we see. In fact, I think it's safe to say that for the most part we are not happy with the direction of the forum itself.

    We know in dealing privately with several of you that you are not happy with the state of the forum either.

    Now frankly the team itself has a lot to do with this in some ways. Very inconsistant & frankly very mediocre for most of the season so far. So we understand that there will be a certain amount of unrest regarding the team. We also understand that some of us have little to no faith in management to improve on this. As well as certain players driving some of us crazy.

    However what we are haveing a real problem with is the direct & often times not so direct insults that we lay down at the feet of each other as posters.

    Nobody should be belittled because of their thoughts, for that matter nobody should be worshipped because they said something that you agree with.

    What we miss, & when I say we I don't just mean members of the admins., is an open honest dialoge between posters.

    No, not everybody is going to take the time to write out long well thought after post every time they hit submit. But the one line zingers and the QFT things have got to go.

    But this post is not about what is wrong, per say. This is our official appeal to you as valued members of our board to help us take this place back to where it once was, the best sports forum on the internet.

    We want to know from you either here on this post or in private your ideas to help us improve things.

    What do you like? What don't you like? What can we improve on?

    We are listening.

    We know that we can only regain our former status with your help.

    Now a special appeal to some of you old timers, you know who you are, we need your help.

    Some of us, I am more guilty lately than anyone, have just slowed our postings down so that we no longer really impact (thanks Jay) the direction of the forum.

    Please, if at all humanly possible & your work life & personnal life permitting, rejoin the fold. We need you guys. If you are posting some now, post more.

    We know why some of you have slowed down or stopped altogether & we are in the process of correcting some of those issues.

    To our newer members. Your input on this is very valued by us. We do not blame you for the way this has taken shape. In some ways it was just a perfect storm of events that has taken it's toll over time.

    We know that with your help we will make improvements.

    Thank you for your time.



    Peck


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    What do you like?
    I miss Odd Thoughts.
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    I see less posts with actual insight and more posts that hail "favorite players", and how other Pacer players are terrible. Much of that has to do with the transistion phase this franchise is and will continue to go through for the next season or so. It's hard for fans to identify with new faces, and I think that many fans on this board or obviously sorting all that out.

    I don't enjoy reading such threads. I like threads that deal with basketball strategy, strengths of players games and critical dissection of Pacer games. Like I said earlier, when a board turns into warring camps promoting "favs" alot of viewers tune out.

    I've been lurking for the last year w/out posting much. This current team is not very interesting to me, and quite honestly I've been more into college ball this season.
    Dallas Clark>Tony Gonzalez

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    The only thing I don't enjoy is how easily we seem to give up on the team and how easily everyone follows suit.

    I am not innocent at all but fortunately I had Naptown_Seth there too snap me out of it.

    I don't mean blindly follow the team but I still think we can critique the team without saying "**** em...I'm never watching this team again."

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    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    I've been following the Pacers boards since 1999/2000 back at RATS.
    Used to post under "Turk" there...and basically witnessed how that forum split to create the Digest...a more sports dialogue oriented environment.

    As bmac has already mentioned, I think one of the reasons why the boards are taking a turn for the worse is that we pretty much predict what everyone is going to say these days because of their personal view toward their "favorite players."

    So when someone criticize a certain player, they feel like in a sense they are being criticized because in one way or another, they're representing them on this forum and feel the need to defend them.

    Unfortunately sometimes this doesn't happen in the most classy manner.

    I think that the forums reflect the state of the team. The fact that the Pacers are NOT playing like a team might be the actual cause for the high rate of "favorism." If that is the case, we can't really battle that issue all by ourselves.

    As for what we might be able to do - I think we need some better topics to discuss. You can only critique a player for so long before it goes downhill.

    Of course for that to happen, we all need to be creative and take it to the next level.

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    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    I don't mean blindly follow the team but I still think we can critique the team without saying "**** em...I'm never watching this team again."
    I think for most people, thats just frustration talking - and they continue to follow the team.

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    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    So if someone doesn't have at least a paragraph in response to a post, they should just not bother replying at all?

    I always saw a forum as being somewhat of a conversation between fans/friends. During a conversation, it doesn't seem that everyone involved in that conversation is going to be prepared to give a small story in rebuttal to a statement being made. It seems that they would probably just shoot out a couple of sentences.

    This forum has it's big posters, no doubt. DAYS of reading with one post. The posts can sometimes cover everything that can be said about something. There may be only just a couple of things to add that the original poster forgot about.

    Am I to understand that we should just keep that to ourselves until we get more to post?

    I have to be honest, I sometimes fear posting here because of not being able to uphold the standards of this board (not the rules, just the quality of posts). Granted I don't believe that I have ever said anything out of line, but never the less I feel somewhat intimidated posting here sometimes. Like I'm not worthy because my knowledge doesn't even come CLOSE to the heavy hitters on this board.

    This all being said, I think that everyone should be treated the same on this board regardless of posts, knowledge, or lengths of their posts.

    I've said my peace so I'll go back under my rock until someone kicks it again.

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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Harddrive7 View Post
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    So if someone doesn't have at least a paragraph in response to a post, they should just not bother replying at all?

    I always saw a forum as being somewhat of a conversation between fans/friends. During a conversation, it doesn't seem that everyone involved in that conversation is going to be prepared to give a small story in rebuttal to a statement being made. It seems that they would probably just shoot out a couple of sentences.

    This forum has it's big posters, no doubt. DAYS of reading with one post. The posts can sometimes cover everything that can be said about something. There may be only just a couple of things to add that the original poster forgot about.

    Am I to understand that we should just keep that to ourselves until we get more to post?

    I have to be honest, I sometimes fear posting here because of not being able to uphold the standards of this board (not the rules, just the quality of posts). Granted I don't believe that I have ever said anything out of line, but never the less I feel somewhat intimidated posting here sometimes. Like I'm not worthy because my knowledge doesn't even come CLOSE to the heavy hitters on this board.

    This all being said, I think that everyone should be treated the same on this board regardless of posts, knowledge, or lengths of their posts.

    I've said my peace so I'll go back under my rock until someone kicks it again.
    At the end of the day this is what I think it all comes down to.

    It starts with managment and goes all the way down to the posters.

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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    At the end of the day this is what I think it all comes down to.

    It starts with managment and goes all the way down to the posters.

    the same should be said for the Pacers....but that is another thread

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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    the same should be said for the Pacers....but that is another thread
    I know you are kidding, but I don’t think it is any coincidence.

    TPTB have decided to give a lot of guys “special treatment” and give everyone there own set of respective rules and look where the team has gone.

    I fear the same thing has happened with this forum.

    Just my .02

    Oh, and just to add my opinion about the length of posts. I admit at times “QFT” types of posts can be annoying (I also think they are appropriate at times if you literally have nothing else to add but do agree, QFT is the same as “I agree” to me) I do not think it is a requirement, nor should it be, that your posts be 15 paragraphs long (ala a Peck post) in order for you to feel “justified” to post it.

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    Banned Jermaniac's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    The only thing I dont like is the Harassing Non-Members Rule. WTF Does that mean, how could I harass someone who is not a member of this site. They don't know I think they suck. Other then that I'm good.

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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    I feel , Peck, that as you say the Pacers performance is a lot of what is behind shorter fuses among many posters (myself included) and the general unrest of the team has spread down to the posters. I know that I myself am frustrated with the team and occasionally let it affect my posting. I am sure others feel the same way. I think that we can all improve our sometimes over aggressive over emotional if we merely think before we type. I think the "Golden Rule" would also be something for all of us to remember as we post.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  13. #13
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Despite quarrels and disputes and all of the other negative feelings we have (partially due to the fact that we mostly cheer for the Pacers), I still think that PD is a hell of a board with many great posters and admins (not sucking up here). I know that my mood can shift immensely depending on how the Pacers are doing during the season or just for the day. That posters are consistently emotional is not a negative. And the longevity thing definitely exists but so does Rick Carlisle; we just have to deal with it.

    And at the end of the day, I'll always be saying

    One love
    You Got The Tony!!!!!!

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    Member Roferr's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    I've been a member for almost a year but have only posted for about 2-3 weeks, so I'm really a newbie. Personally, compared to some forums, I think this one is pretty darn good.

    There is a core of well-informed posters who put a lot of thought into their posts. They are normally based on facts or stats. If they are only opinions, normally there are explanations of why a poster believes a particular way. On a lot of forums, you don't have that. Posters make blunt statements with nothing to substantiate anything. I've seen very little of that here.

    If this forum has gone down hill, then at one time, it must have been superb. I've not seen any posts of a racial nature, which is a breath of fresh air. I've seen some veiled name calling and on a few cases outright personal attacks, but for the most part, posters are respectful.

    I've posted on the Indy Star for a while and think this forum has more of the more knowledgeable posters. The Star forum is comprised of a lot of one-liners which you don't see nearly as much here. Comparing the two forums, I think I'll do the majority of my posting here.

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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Harddrive7 View Post
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    So if someone doesn't have at least a paragraph in response to a post, they should just not bother replying at all?

    I always saw a forum as being somewhat of a conversation between fans/friends. During a conversation, it doesn't seem that everyone involved in that conversation is going to be prepared to give a small story in rebuttal to a statement being made. It seems that they would probably just shoot out a couple of sentences.

    This forum has it's big posters, no doubt. DAYS of reading with one post. The posts can sometimes cover everything that can be said about something. There may be only just a couple of things to add that the original poster forgot about.

    Am I to understand that we should just keep that to ourselves until we get more to post?

    I have to be honest, I sometimes fear posting here because of not being able to uphold the standards of this board (not the rules, just the quality of posts). Granted I don't believe that I have ever said anything out of line, but never the less I feel somewhat intimidated posting here sometimes. Like I'm not worthy because my knowledge doesn't even come CLOSE to the heavy hitters on this board.

    This all being said, I think that everyone should be treated the same on this board regardless of posts, knowledge, or lengths of their posts.

    I've said my peace so I'll go back under my rock until someone kicks it again.
    Harddrive, I am new here but I have never felt intimitated to the point of fearing to post. One thing you should remember is,
    that we as posters all have different levels of knowledge of the game, but that also doesn't mean that you don't have anything to contribute to the conversation. I can't break a game down like some of the big hitters here, but I do feel that I have enough basic knowledge to engage these posters. I don't want to, or feel the need to, write long drawn out posts, when the same points can be made in far fewer words.


    Peck is right though, one only needs to go visit the Indy Star board to see what he is talking about. I have at times been to strong in addressing other posters and have said so to the Mods, but I have tried to be more civil and less combative, without losing my manhood, and you know what, it isn't all that bad. May I say to all of the posters here that I may have offended in any way, get over it. Naw I am just kidding about that last comment. I do feel that some posters here need to lighten up and not be so super sensitive to constructive criticism.

    Alf68

  16. #16
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Anyone keeping track of how often this thread is made? I swear I never saw one the first ... 2 years I visited this place. Now, its like every 4-6 months.

    And post minimums are silly, IMO. I welcome brevity.

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    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    No, not everybody is going to take the time to write out long well thought after post every time they hit submit. But the one line zingers and the QFT things have got to go.
    Peck

    I think we can all agree when we see who is using one liners to spam and who is using QFT to basically agree with the post.

    As long as no one is spamming, I honestly don't see a reason why one liners should be obsolete

  18. #18
    One man show ajbry's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    As long as everyone here remains a loyal and civil Pacers fan, we have nothing to worry about. The majority of posters appreciate other viewpoints and simply do not hold generalizations, which makes for some of the best basketball-related discussions. There ain't anything wrong here, there are simply a lot of strong personalities with loyalty to their team and their favorite player(s).

  19. #19
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    I think the forum has broken into two camps with some straddling the fence. Camp 1 is more about fans of team basketball first and foremost.
    Camp 2 is more about fans of individuals on the team first and foremost.

    The two can coexist nicely when things are going good. It gets more complicated when things are going bad. People in camp #1 who want to discuss what is wrong with the team have to wade thru a minefield for fear of setting off someone from camp #2 who feels their favorite has been dissed.

    And as someone said, the people in camp #2 almost take it as a personal attack if their guy is in the crosshairs of a given post. It's hard to even have a "could it be?" discussion because the rebuttals are sometimes downright personal. Sometimes they simply sidetrack the point and derail the discussion. Sometimes someone reads more into the post than what the words are even saying/asking (which leads to more pointless sidetrack discussions and frustration).

    And who has time for that type of thing? Whether a post is venting or hoping to hear an alternate theory or just wrap their head around a concept and see something differently, it's pretty certain nobody is wanting to argue over their level of 'hate' or 'fandom' when they made the initial post. Everyone is obviously fans of the team (or NBA) or they wouldn't be posting on a regular basis.

    I'm not sure what can be done about it tho. But it's easier to post less and post more blandly, than to deal with the frustration... unfortunately.

    -Bball
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    I started posting on Rats back in 2000, and while I seldom post, I've slowly moved to this forum. The trolls, and lack of moderation at Rats did it in for me, and now that they've moved on, I just don't find the quality posters over there anymore. I appreciate the fact that this forum exist, and I think the level of moderation is on target with what it should be. I have noticed a little more of the 1 line zingers you mention, and I suppose a warning to the posters for that behavior might be in order. With that said, I wouldn't want the job of moderation that Hicks, and Able take on. I like the game threads, and analyzing of articles. I wish I had more to add, but I think there's still more good things about this forum then bad.

  21. #21
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    I've read this thread a couple of times and I don't know how to respond. A forum is only as good as the posters who post. Several of the really good posters have for whatever reason not posted as much as they used to. I don't know why. Probably a combination of 3 things. They don't like the team, they don't like the atmosphere of the forum or they have other things in their life that is taking up their time.

    I know I used to post a lot more - maybe not more posts - but certainly more words - a greater number of longer posts and even more than that I used to start a lot more threads. Now I hardly ever start threads. I went back and looked at some of my threads I started in 2003 and 2004. When I read some of those I must admit I used to be a much better poster - I had more things to say, and more questions to ask.

    I don't know why I've fallen off - the Artest thing took a lot out of me, things in my personal life are wearing on me - but I still love the Pacers and watch every Pacers game and I still enjoy reading and posting in this forum. But my energy level isn't what it used to be in regards to posting and I don't know if that will ever come back. I find it easier to just make short little posts in response to what someone else posts.

    I do think that the quality of the forum has gone down - more than anything it is a natural progression of how things go in forums. As more and more people join in things change.

    One thing I do know is that the more you post the more you post. No that isn't a typo (I don't even typo like I used to). What I mean is when you make a post you want to see who responds and more than likely you'll respond back. So one post leads to 2 or 3 posts. So post once and you'll likely post a handful of times - it feeds on itself.

    As far as advise for the admins - I don't know what to suggest. I don't know what you guys can do except to post more often. A forum is only as good as its posters.

    One last thing, I know I will on occasion - post things such as "I completely agree with you" posts when someone says something I agree with. I can certainly stop doing that

  22. #22

    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    It is funny how my Internet uses have changed over time. I went through a time when it was all about dowloading music, and then for years I was really into instant messaging. Now I rarely engage in either one.

    But one of the constants I have had is to visit this forum. I visit only 3 sites with regularity 1. My work E-mail, 2. My Personal E-mail, and 3. www.pacersdigest.com.

    The problem is that I just don't stay on very long when I come. And I'm not so sure how much it is the posters or how much it is me being disenfranchised with the team. I'm sure I'll change, but right now I'm just not that into the Pacers. And in general, my watching of sports has went down. I used to be die hard watching IU B-ball, and I don't think I've seen a complete game this year.

    I'm always attracted to the site b/c of the people. When I went to the last forum party, it wasn't to talk about the Pacers. Frankly I've just not cared one way or the other about them lately. I do enjoy engaging in the debates, being a part of the humor, and just the general camraderie of the group.

    Maybe the Pacers will give us something to write about, but nothing is so boring to write about than mediocrity. Anyway,
    “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
    motivated and going. Thirty percent is to see if I can get into the opponent’s head.”
    Reggie Miller

  23. #23
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    My intention was to make this post then just step back & read. But I feel as though I must clarify a statement.

    When I was speaking of one line zinger & QFT posts I did not make my meaning very clear.

    The QFT part is pretty self explanitory. If you feel that you must re-emphasize what someone has said then say so.

    BTW, I am not speaking just for myself on this one. My fellow Amins. have a huge problem with the entire QFT issue. I think that it is often overused myself but if you give a reason why something is important then I don't see a problem, but then again if you did that you wouldn't be just doing a QFT post would you.

    Now to the part that I really poorly wrote.

    The one line zingers. I did not mean that you should not have one line posts in response to something.

    The reason I threw zingers in there on purpose was that we don't want quick little blurbs just for the sake of rebuking, hazing, insulting, another poster.

    So as an example if poster A says something along the lines of not being happy with Player (fill in the blank) then we do not want poster B making some quick glib comment about poster A.

    We want to encourage discussion not take away from it.

    So no, to those who are asking, you do not need to make long drawn out posts. That is counter productive as well. For that matter your posts don't even have to be any good, God knows most of mine are not.

    However what we want to eliminate is the poster on poster hate.

    Ok, back to reading.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  24. #24
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    One last thing, I know I will on occasion - post things such as "I completely agree with you" posts when someone says something I agree with.
    I think those are actually good. It gives everyone a good barometer on whether they are a lone loon or part of the silent majority and never even knew it.

    It's always nice to know you're not just talking to yourself on here. I think the lack of support is sometimes part of the problem. A lack of noticable support encourages those throwing stones to throw more since they are emboldened in that they are in the majority... and by the same token it leaves the original poster thinking their opinion or topic isn't relevant.

    Sometimes there's nothing else (necessarily) to say but it's nice to see that you've spoken for someone else too... or caused someone to look at something differently.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: My fellow Pacers Digest members.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I think those are actually good. It gives everyone a good barometer on whether they are a lone loon or part of the silent majority and never even knew it.

    It's always nice to know you're not just talking to yourself on here. I think the lack of support is sometimes part of the problem. A lack of noticable support encourages those throwing stones to throw more since they are emboldened in that they are in the majority... and by the same token it leaves the original poster thinking their opinion or topic isn't relevant.

    Sometimes there's nothing else (necessarily) to say but it's nice to see that you've spoken for someone else too... or caused someone to look at something differently.

    -Bball
    I agree with this 110%.

    I know from time to time I had written a draft and just decided to keep a issue to myself.

    As Peck just clarified, I dont think anyone should be regulated on how long posts have to be.


    I dont want to go back quoting everyone in this thread, but UB, I really agree with your post as well. I know I enjoyed meeting all of you a few weeks back, and I really enjoyed speaking with you. I do think it would be great to see a lot of the old timers back posting more frequently, and you def. fall into that category.

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