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Thread: Kravitz and Al has me upset

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Well Bob has done it again. I shouldn't be surprised. But there is something so maddening about Bob. He tells the team to trade Jacksons for a bag of donuts and then when they do finally trade Jax he says it was a bad trade and they should have done it sooner.

    Oh and Bob when you obviously have never seen Diogu play, please just say that and leave the analysis of his game to someone who has. Obviously he has no clue.

    Oh and a final word to Al - just shut up - so Rick didn't tailor the whole offense to you. He moved you to small forward which is what you wanted, he didn't bench you like he should have. He catered to your every want and need and then you rip him on the way out. Real class, real class. He should have benched you weeks ago - but I'm sure he was concerned about your very sensitive feelings. I was a little sad about Al leaving the first time, but not the second - let's just hope there isn't a chance for a third time

    My final word on Bob is just stick to other sports because your NBA basketball knowledge is pathetic - I don't respect your opinions on the NBA - he probably thinks the Pacers acquired Foyle instead of Diogu - oh wait, my fault he's never heard of Foyle and probably had never heard of Diogu until yesderday. Oh and what is the statute of limitations on the Bird and Artest SI cover - will he still refer to that 10 years from now

    Here are the articles.

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart

    bob kravitz
    New direction seems rather aimless
    January 18, 2007


    I have a fancy new idea for the next round of Indiana Pacers billboards. From the outset, let me say it's not nearly as inspiring as "One team, one goal," which blew up when Ron Artest asked for a trade, or "It's up to us," which started looking silly when four members of the new-and-improved Pacers got into a nightclub brawl that involved gunplay.

    So here's my suggestion in the wake of the Pacers' latest effort to move in a new direction, the trade that sent Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, Sarunas Jasikevicius and Josh Powell to Golden State for Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Ike Diogu and Keith McCleod:

    Throwing stuff against a wall and hoping it sticks.

    Catchy, no?

    Now, before all of this turns negative -- and you've already sensed that it might -- let me say that it's hard to criticize any deal that hastens the exits of Jackson and Jasikevicius.

    The former was a time bomb -- a time bomb with a gun license -- and he was as likely as Artest to implode. They should have dealt him last summer, though my sense is they tried but couldn't. Jackson had good intentions at times, but then, so did Artest. He was emotionally immature, to be nice about it.

    The latter, Jasikevicius, was team president Larry Bird's pet project. Some of us who'd seen his game overseas applauded the move, but within weeks, we saw why nobody else in the NBA had brought him in for a look. He couldn't make 3-pointers at this level and he couldn't defend the mascot. He was a liability with an attitude.

    So there is an addition-by-subtraction element to this deal.
    And there's this:

    These Pacers weren't going anywhere this season with that crew, not in the wretched Eastern Conference, not anywhere. Even with the schedule softening in the upcoming weeks, this was not going to be a group that would come together, see the light and make a run.

    For every step forward, there was a step back. Losing at home to Charlotte. Getting blown off the floor in New Jersey, with Harrington being benched to start the second half. That wasn't going to change.

    Here's my question, though: Do they really think they're going anywhere now? Does this make them appreciably better? Really?

    More and more, the Pacers front office reminds me of the Home Shopping Network: Every time you look up, they're trying to sell you something. And more often than not, what they're peddling turns out to be junk.

    They tried to sell the goofy idea that Artest could be rehabilitated and turned into a cornerstone of the franchise. Bird even posed with Artest on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Didn't work out.

    They tried to sell fans on the notion that this season's team would be filled with good guys, that chemistry and athleticism would produce a team that not only won but was fun to watch. Didn't work out.

    They sold the return of the prodigal son, the relentlessly upbeat Harrington, who would help create the kind of atmosphere the Pacers used to have before they began to rot at the core. Didn't work out.

    They sold Jasikevicius as the missing piece. They sold Marquis Daniels as the multidimensional jack-of-all-trades. They sold the more aesthetically pleasing, up-tempo offense. They sold James White, the second-round draft pick for whom they traded two second-rounders, and he didn't even make the roster. None of those moves worked out.

    All that selling, all those empty promises, I'm wondering why I should bother buying anything in the first place. What have they done in the past four years to earn your faith? Draft Danny Granger? He fell to them when the teams drafting ahead of them suffered a brain cramp.

    They continue to run on a treadmill to mediocrity, good enough to make the playoffs, bad enough to get bounced in the first round. It's been a long, long time since the Pacers have been quite this irrelevant, and it's not just because the Colts have seized the spotlight.

    If the Pacers had made a deal that gave them expiring contracts and put them in a position to bottom out, I would commend them for getting in the Greg Oden Sweepstakes and having the courage to start over.

    This, though, strikes me as one of those spin-your-wheels trades. They were a little bit over .500 before the deal. They'll be a little bit over .500 after the deal.

    Diogu is a nice young player, a power guy and a good pickup and someone who doesn't need the ball on offense. But Troy Murphy? When he's healthy, he's got a chance to be a nice, Brad Miller-style complement to O'Neal, but he's always hurt. And Mike Dunleavy just strikes me as a guy who, along with Murphy, owns a frighteningly long-term deal for huge dollars.

    Better fits? Yeah.

    A better team? Not dramatically.

    They just keep throwing stuff against the wall. And hoping, truly hoping, something finally sticks.

  2. #2
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    OK here's the stuff on Al

    I apologize if these have been posted already


    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart



    Harrington bashes Carlisle's system
    By Mike Wells
    mike.wells@indystar.com
    January 18, 2007


    For the second time in as many seasons, the Indiana Pacers traded a player who took exception to Rick Carlisle's coaching philosophy.
    Forward Al Harrington, dealt Wednesday to Golden State in an eight-player shake-up, shared former Pacers forward Ron Artest's sentiment in saying he didn't feel comfortable playing in Carlisle's regimented system.

    "I would say we didn't see eye to eye," Harrington said as he walked to his car at Conseco Fieldhouse on Wednesday. "It was a real slow-down offense. He's one of those guys that's very precise and wants things done a certain way, and playing that way is hard for everybody to get opportunities. At the same time, it's a system that has worked for him in the past."

    Harrington's departure comes just 38 games after his celebrated return.
    The Pacers moved to regain Harrington in early July, hours after Peja Stojakovic agreed to sign with the New Orleans Hornets. Harrington spent his first six seasons with the Pacers, who brought him back in a sign-and-trade deal from Atlanta on Aug. 23, 2006.

    Harrington was supposed to team with close friend Jermaine O'Neal to give the Pacers a high-scoring duo.

    Harrington had two 30-point games early, but started to struggle when he was shifted to small forward in late November. Pacers officials didn't feel Harrington and O'Neal complemented each other in the frontcourt. Harrington averaged 15.9 points and 6.3 rebounds.

    "That's the heartbreak in it," CEO Donnie Walsh said. "I drafted Al some time ago. I loved him as a guy. He would've fit in here, but he was playing (small forward) more than he was playing (power forward). I'm not sure he's a good fit at (power forward) with Jermaine. When you really looked at it, I don't know if the two players complemented one another as much as we thought they could."

    Harrington said he thought the Pacers were going to be more of an up-tempo team. He criticized Carlisle's system two weeks ago and reiterated that comment Wednesday. He said he didn't mean any harm when he said Jan. 6 he was going to play aggressively like Artest, but his comments caught Carlisle by surprise.

    Carlisle called Harrington in for a meeting two days later.

    "On our team, Al played the second-most minutes and took the second-most shots to Jermaine O'Neal," Carlisle said Wednesday night. "Unfortunately, our fast-break points dropped 23 percent after we moved him from center to small forward, which is where he wanted to play. I wish Al only the best with Golden State."

    As much as he'll miss his teammates, in particular O'Neal, Harrington said he is looking forward to going to Golden State, which pursued him last summer. The Warriors were prepared to pay Harrington upward of $60 million. He ended up with a $36 million contract.

    "I'm surprised, happy at the same time," Harrington said. "Obviously if you want the whole truth, I wanted to play in Golden State in the summer. I was like this was my 1A-1B options. I'm looking forward to it. . . . The thing I'm mad about most is my house. I bought my house and furniture and made it comfortable. Now I have to leave."

    Harrington will be united with Warriors executive vice president of operations Chris Mullin, who was a teammate with the Pacers. He's also thrilled to be playing for coach Don Nelson, whose offense suits Harrington's game.

    "(Mullin) is somebody I admire and love. He's one of the guys I credit for where I am today in my game," Harrington said. "Playing for Don Nelson, who is a great coach, is going to allow me to grow as a player."

  3. #3

    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    He really sensationalized the headline, didn't he? Harrington didn't "bash" anything in the article. There was exactly one sentence and he said they didn't see eye to eye.

    As far as the original article, I agree with some points. The Pacers management needs to get their act together because average talent isn't going to get it done. As he mentioned, they've made a lot more mistakes in the past few years than they have good moves.

    Personally, I would love to have seen a rebuild as that's probably the only chance this franchise has of achieving it's goal of being championship caliber (speaking realistically, here), but obviously DW has had a recent habit of spinning the wheels instead of thinking for the future.

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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    I don't really see anything wrong with Kravitz's article. In fact I tend to agree with most of it. The Pacers screwed the pooch and they cleared out a couple of those mistakes in one big trade.

    TPTB wiffed on Jackson and bringing Al back didn't work. Saras was a marginal, inconsistent PG, which they didn't expect. Even trading AJ looks like a slight mistake at this point.

    I was surprised that Bob didn't mention that this is basically the same trade that the Pacers were rumored to be looking for during the Artest debacle last season. I find it rather ironic that the Pacers now think that taking Dunleavy and Troy Murphy is a good idea when last year they didn't really think so. I guess the one difference is that GS finally offered up Ike Diogu.

    The one area that I'm not in agreement with is that this is a do-nothing trade. I don't think this is the case of TPTB, "throwing stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks." I just think they realize that they should've made this trade last year and so when the opportunity came back around they made it this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    All that selling, all those empty promises, I'm wondering why I should bother buying anything in the first place. What have they done in the past four years to earn your faith?
    Excuse me Bob what have you bought before exactly. I haven't seen any emotional investment by you toward this team. You don't care if they win or lose. Plus talk to us next time you BUY a ticket or shirt or something that supports this franchise.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Maybe I overreacted - but when I read those two articles I got very upset - so instead of cooling off I started this thread - Al wasn't too critical and Bob made some decent points, but I don't respect Bob's NBA opinion at all.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Maybe I overreacted - but when I read those two articles I got very upset - so instead of cooling off I started this thread - Al wasn't too critical and Bob made some decent points, but I don't respect Bob's NBA opinion at all.
    Did you read Bob's piece on the Colts yesterday? He spoke to why likes writing about football over other sports. With 16 games, every game matters. Every game is 'armageddon'. I'm paraphrasing his words there, tho I certainly get his point.

    I'm not defending or excusing his latest Pacers article.... only trying to add some context.

    Also, FYI... the Star took snippets of his Colt articles from the season to show his wavering opinion on them each game.


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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Maybe I overreacted - but when I read those two articles I got very upset - so instead of cooling off I started this thread - Al wasn't too critical and Bob made some decent points, but I don't respect Bob's NBA opinion at all.
    I know a lot of people don't like Kravitz or whatever but I do like that he holds the team accountable. He's a negative guy by nature but he does seem to get the attention of the players. Just look at the Colts for an example. You can't tell me that hearing him (along with several other media pundants) say that they suck and that they couldn't stop Larry Johson or any other RB didn't resonate throughout the locker room.

    I may not agree with him or even like that he always looks for the negative angle but he's an editorial jounalist. He's supposed to push the envelope and call the team/players out when they make mistakes. He's supposed to make you think and start talking about whatever subject he writes about. You have to admit he's pretty good at sticking in your head and getting you talking. LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    I agree that Wells has done it again...or his editor. Whichever, it keeps coming up over and over - headlines that don't match the content and sensationalize everything.

    Isn't the Star still supposed to be journalism, not tabloid crap? Headlines like that belong with Entertainment Tonight, not a news article. Are they giving freelance headline writing work to Bill Walton now?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Carlisle
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    "On our team, Al played the second-most minutes and took the second-most shots to Jermaine O'Neal," Carlisle said Wednesday night. "Unfortunately, our fast-break points dropped 23 percent after we moved him from center to small forward, which is where he wanted to play. I wish Al only the best with Golden State."
    I have to say that if a harsh tone was coming from either side, it was coming from Rick. When he goes negative stats and says "the player got what he wanted" that's about as negative as he's going to get, especially in a situation like this.

    Maybe after a hard loss in the heat of the post-game moment, but not after a trade where he could just hand out the normal cliches and glad-hand him out the door.

    The mesh wasn't JO-Al, it was Rick-Al, and any fan with common sense knows that Rick looks a lot more right than Al did. Al complained to the press, pulled an Artest reference (not a good choice) and in most of our eyes was giving a pretty poor effort in terms of results (not necessarily energy).

    I'm not saying he didn't try, or that he did either actually, but I'm saying that he wasn't looking good on defense, he wasn't really rebounding tough boards, and he did seem to pull himself out of the offensive flow, much like Ron.

    Now we saw how much "better" Ron got away from Rick's offense - same kind of loose cannon, take-over-the-game crap that aggrevates fans of Ron's overall game and ability. It certainly wasn't like once freed from Rick that Artest found this beautiful, flowing offense that was being suppressed by Carlisle.

    Should I really expect Al to put up a lot better offensive numbers in Oakland?

    My money says that right now Rick sure doesn't buy that, and knew that it wasn't going to get better with him here in Indy. I had hope it would, but the frustration in Rick's brief comments suggests otherwise.



    As for Kravitz - I typically avoid him like the plague, but I will say that I've come across a few articles in the last 3-4 months that read a lot more like a reasoned voice rather than the uninformed a-hole looking to make a name by saying the most outrageous thing that could come to mind.

    He probably listened to enough local sports talk and realized that the fans already had that area covered.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    I found this very interesting.

    "Unfortunately, our fast-break points dropped 23 percent after we moved him from center to small forward, which is where he wanted to play..."

    Hmmmm....

    And yet nobody is talking about how negatively Al impacted the team's ability to run. Rather, the pundits would rather discuss how "bad" and "wishy-washy" this trade appears to be. But nobody is talking about how bad of a fit Al seemed to be, nor his unwillingness to do what was truly necessary to help move this team forward which was come off the bench and play PF behind JO. He didn't want to do that. RC ultimately "appeased" him by moving him to a position he "asked" to play (...yeah, right. Like Al actually wanted to play SF. He'd much rather start at PF, but was obviously very reluctant to be JO's backup. Hence, the move to SF.), and yet the team still struggled w/Al and JO as their 1-2 punch. Why?

    The answer is in the 2nd article posted by UB.

    'Nuff Said...

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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Al's a PF, period.

    Let's just say that it took two parties to make the questionable decision to play Al at SF.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  12. #12

    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    i don't doubt harrington wanted to play sf. thats what he played here the last time and did it pretty well (not great but, pretty well). and since i never heard him say he didn't want to play the sf position, i figure th sf spot was what he really wanted. i can't remember when it was said but shortly after the move- i thought he said something along the line of being pleased about the move to sf and saying it was his natural position or something like that. i do remember him saying that he had the size and strenght to punish other 3's around the league. problem was that they could punish him just as bad if not worse in return since he was totaly ineffective at guarding them.
    now, jermaine has said several times before that he doesn't want to play center so, that left al with the choice to play center or sf. (far too short to be a real center) or the sf. as a true tweener, al really has no position that he really excels at.
    i strongly suspected that he would never accept a demotion to the bench because his ego would never permit it. starting was of utmost importance to al before he left the first time and i doubt that ever changed.whether deserved or not, i suspect al would have been very unhappy with the benching. he wants shots(lots of em) is not more than average at best in terms of quickness and has an aversion to taking it to the rim. i decided to focus on him a few games to see why he has these games where he logs major min. and yet pulled down horrible reb. numbers and few (if any) trips to the line. what i saw was a guy who camped out at the 3 point line and rarely ventured inside it. how much of that was due to his refusal to go down and battle for rebs. and how much was due to that being where rick wanted him to stay- i don't know. i do suspect though, rick didn't want him there on every play.
    one thing that really disapointed me with al was the fact he showed he could learn the 3 point shot yet never has shown an ability to hit free throws. free throws are a shot that if you put in the time and effort- your percentages will almost certainly go up significantly and they never have in his career. i can't help but get the vibe they were not something al considered important. they aren't a glamorous side of the game and therefore, not worth working on in his mind.
    i wish him luck elsewhere.

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    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    I don't know if this has been poitned out or not. But everyone including Krapitz has always gotten on the pacers for not taking a chance and making moves or trades, but what I have seen from the pacers in the last two years is they have made some moves and tried some trades. Ok, so many of them haven't worked out the way they thought they would, but at least they are trying.

    I give them a lot of credit for that. They aren't standing pat anymore. If its not working, they seem to be realizing it and trying to make trades. Some good, but some not so good. But not every trade is ever going to get you a player like Jermaine Oneal, so we have to realize they are making adjustments and at least trying to make the team better.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    Al's a PF, period.

    If his coach was dumb enough to play him out-of-position because he was begging for it, then they're both idiots, and this outcome was predictable.

    Yeah, we should have made him a Power Forward. It's not like we have an All-Star PF blocking his path or anything.

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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    Al's a PF, period.

    If his coach was dumb enough to play him out-of-position because he was begging for it, then they're both idiots, and this outcome was predictable.
    Look, your hatred of Rick is never hidden, but this is just absurd. It's not even been HALF a season, and Al didn't even start off at SF in the first place, and the dude is supposed to be the 2nd best player on the roster.

    So you stick him on the bench as the back-up PF even though it means he's still going to be limited to a max of 12 minutes at offensive PF due to JO's 36 mpg?

    No. If the guy is saying "I can do it" and what you are trying (DG/Al/JO) STINKS (and it did, the endless bad starts supported that view) then you TRY IT. Put up or shut up time.

    He didn't put up and was gone before the AS break. That's not idiotic, that's open-minded followed by realistic. It's a classic argument tatic to prove your point. Al won't listen to the coach then the coach lets the player find out the hard way.

    For all we know Al was presented with this fastbreak stat and got pissy about it, didn't want to go to the bench or leave the SF role, and that's what got him traded a few weeks later (or 2 days later, whatever).



    Larry Brown once "proved a point" with Jalen Rose by cutting his playing time.. He proved the team right out of the playoffs and got himself fired. Meanwhile Rose stayed and became a key player for Bird during 3 title runs.

    The lesson - you have to give a player the chance to be right or wrong if he won't listen. It's not as simple as just benching them.

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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Yeah, we should have made him a Power Forward. It's not like we have an All-Star PF blocking his path or anything.
    Jermaine, at 6'11, 255 lbs. is about as natural of a center as you'll find in today's NBA.

    It isn't 2001 anymore. JO is not a skinny 6'11, 230 lbs., and Al is not a 6'8" 225 lb SF. Both of them grew into their frames, and moved "up" a position.

    Cramming Foster into the already crowded PF/C combination is what messed this up.

    If Rick really wanted to start Foster, he should've moved either Al or JO to the bench, not Granger. But then you had Al's silly, "I'm a SF" quote.

    Al, we cheered like crazy for you when you came back from your ACL. Its a shame you lost your starting SF spot while injured to a guy that was mentally ill and never got a chance to win it back. But when you came back, your body wasn't the same, you were stronger and had lost some of your lateral quickness. You haven't been a SF since that sad night in Boston when you were carried off the court. Period.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  17. #17
    Member odeez's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Oh BOB CRAPITZ! He only writes these articles to make us react this way. It gets people to read his articles. Is he from New York? The way he writes is like sports writers in the Daily News or the Post. Anyways, ignore it.

    Interms of Al. He had his chance here. It wasn't anything RC did or the team did. It is up to him to fugure out where he can be effective on the court. Al is a good player, but he doesn't fit here. And if by chance we do get Corey through Dunleavy Jr., it will all be worth it.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    Jermaine, at 6'11, 255 lbs. is about as natural of a center as you'll find in today's NBA.

    It isn't 2001 anymore. JO is not a skinny 6'11, 230 lbs., and Al is not a 6'8" 225 lb SF. Both of them grew into their frames, and moved "up" a position.

    Cramming Foster into the already crowded PF/C combination is what messed this up.

    If Rick really wanted to start Foster, he should've moved either Al or JO to the bench, not Granger. But then you had Al's silly, "I'm a SF" quote.

    Al, we cheered like crazy for you when you came back from your ACL. Its a shame you lost your starting SF spot while injured to a guy that was mentally ill and never got a chance to win it back. But when you came back, your body wasn't the same, you were stronger and had lost some of your lateral quickness. You haven't been a SF since that sad night in Boston when you were carried off the court. Period.

    So we either should have played Al 12 minutes a game behind JO or we should have benched JO?

    Al really was the PF at the begining of the season. JO was listed as the PF for All-Star purposes (so that he wouldn't have to beat both Wallace and Shaq for the starting slot).

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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Bob Kravitz writing an article where he makes himself look like a fool when it comes to NBA knowledge? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    So we either should have played Al 12 minutes a game behind JO or we should have benched JO?
    Or trade Al.

    Al really was the PF at the begining of the season. JO was listed as the PF for All-Star purposes (so that he wouldn't have to beat both Wallace and Shaq for the starting slot).
    I agree, JO was the "C" and Al was the "PF".

    There were problems in how the players were utilized, but that was abandoned before they really got a chance to establish themselves, IMO.

    Apparently Rick saw something immediately, probably said to managment ten games into the season, "This ain't gonna work, you should move Al but I'll keep him in the lineup to keep his market value up."

    That's more believable than thinking that he really wanted to play an Al/Jeff/JO frontcourt.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  21. #21
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Kravitz is a Pacers hater and a Colts fanboy. Because of that, at some point virtually everyone will agree with him on something, even if it's only 5% of the time.

    But his act (like Bill Walton's) has gone well beyond stale, and I wish someone would pull the plug on both of them.

    As for Al, what can you say? He said he wanted to win more than anything, and then proceeded to complain about his minutes and position (just like he did right before he was traded to Atlanta). He said he wanted to be here all along, and then stated his heart was really into going to Golden State during the summer. You really can't believe what Al says. I liked him as a person, and was willing to give him a second chance, but his priorities are the same (read: still not what we want here) and he's nowhere near the player he once was. And I think JO saw that, too. I'm glad we cut ties with Al, and I wish him luck. Like Dale Davis, his time as a Pacer has past...for good.

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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    No matter what Krappy says, we won't know how this deal works out for at least a few months. We play 14 out of 17 at home coming up. The new guys will get some practice in. Murphy and Dunleavy have a high basketball IQ. So I expect the change to be a little quicker. Krappy is obviously clueless. He just doesn't get it that the players play the game. Bird and Walsh are managers. Carlisle is the architect. I expect this team to be more consistent. The guys we traded for are less likely to be hangin at the strip club.

    When we traded Dale for JO. JO was struggling at Portland his first 4 years. He blossomed here. I expect all 3 (TM,MD and Ike) of the new guys to get better and stay better.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Here's the quote that made me want to puke:

    "He's one of those guys that's very precise and wants things done a certain way, and playing that way is hard for everybody to get opportunities."

    Al Harrington: "It's up to me."
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    But his act (like Bill Walton's) has gone well beyond stale, and I wish someone would pull the plug on both of them.
    The difference is Walton's actually done something in his life. But yeah, they both suck.
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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz and Al has me upset

    The funny thing is Shade that as recently as the first month of last season Bob was ripping the Colts a new one every other day, how they were chokers, how Manning and Dungy couldn't get it done, terrible defense, Edge's attitude, a whole laundry list of reasons to crap on the team.

    Then they got to about 8 or 9 and 0 and suddenly he got on board. Since then he's remained behind them even when the fans got bitter. In fact I've wondered if seeing the unreasonable fan response to the tough Colts losses made him shift his view (since that had been his job before then).



    As for Al, what can you say? He said he wanted to win more than anything, and then proceeded to complain about his minutes and position (just like he did right before he was traded to Atlanta). He said he wanted to be here all along, and then stated his heart was really into going to Golden State during the summer. You really can't believe what Al says. I liked him as a person, and was willing to give him a second chance, but his priorities are the same (read: still not what we want here) and he's nowhere near the player he once was. And I think JO saw that, too. I'm glad we cut ties with Al, and I wish him luck. Like Dale Davis, his time as a Pacer has past...for good.
    I hate to say it, but I was starting to think this before the trade even. And I was supportive of his return. I did think that he had taken a bad rap on why he left the first time.

    He's not a jerk at all, so I don't dislike him. But I did have to wonder just what the problem was that made being on a winning team with his buddy not enough after all.


    That's more believable than thinking that he really wanted to play an Al/Jeff/JO frontcourt.
    Why? Danny has been a mess this year still, at least in terms of awareness at either end. Once that switch was made the team started games out close rather than down by 10-16 like they had been prior to that (see the last time the did it in Toronto for example, then the very next game after the switch).

    This is not to say that I don't think DG is coming along nicely. I do. I just have a realistic view of where he's at and what his progress rate should be. Like Pippen he seems like a progression player, not a duck to water star.


    Al, we cheered like crazy for you when you came back from your ACL. Its a shame you lost your starting SF spot while injured to a guy that was mentally ill and never got a chance to win it back. But when you came back, your body wasn't the same, you were stronger and had lost some of your lateral quickness. You haven't been a SF since that sad night in Boston when you were carried off the court. Period.
    I do agree 100% with you on this Jay.

    Talk about "if only". If he had stayed quicker and stayed the starting SF, no Ron. Or Ron traded for Jackson or some other SG. But that's water under the bridge now.

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