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Thread: Tinsley's Shooting

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    Member OakMoses's Avatar
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    Default Tinsley's Shooting

    The Pacers are 9-4 when Tinsley shoots less than 10 shots.

    This means they're 8-12 when he shoots more than 10 shots.

    I like Tins. He's a good player and he's played admirably this year, but his shooting is out of control. Over the past 5 games he's 29 for 80. That's about 37%. With the current lineup, he should be the 4th option. There's also some players off the bench (Granger, Daniels, Sarunas) that I'd rather see shoot the ball. Tinsley has the playmaking ability to be a great point guard, he just needs to realize that 10 assists are just as good as 10 baskets.

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    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    I'll go a little bit further with it but with Al. The other player people have been down on.

    Al has sat two games this year, one a win and one a loss.

    The Ps are 16-13 when he shoots atleast 10 times, and 0-2 when he doesn't.

    During the 15 losses though, Al is shooting 47.57% on 88-185 shooting. That's 11.56 fga per game.

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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Great. First Foster got shot, now Tinsley. This poor team...
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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    Great. First Foster got shot, now Tinsley. This poor team...
    That's good a$$ comedy.


    On the topic, obviously I ran out the December shooting for Tinsley vs the other 5 main scorers that showed he was taking more shots despite being the worst shooter of the bunch.

    A shoot first PG can be annoying period, but any player taking 18 a night at a 33-35% rate is hurting the team. Toss in 4-5 turnovers every game too? Brutal.

    He's got to get his game under control.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Watch Tinsley closely. He has a nice handle and good dribble penetration. Other than that, he does not add much.

    What I see is overrated or maybe under-used passing skills. More often than not, he dribbles the ball down and just dumps it to another player. There might be a post-up, or if there is ball movement Tinsley is often not part of it. He never seems to drive and kick. If he is part of the ball movement, it is usually a pass that most any PG could make. This seems to explain why his assists totals are so lame.

    Also, he does not seem to be directing the offense once he gets it down the floor. Many of the assists are being made by other players...which explains his low assist totals and the team's above average totals. It's almost like his playmaking skills are a small part of what he adds to the floor...even though he is thought to be a great playmaker.

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    Member quiller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Pitty I have not been able to watch a lot of games this year. Sometimes though just looking at stats you get the result of the problem not what the problem is. When a team is playing poorly.. no energy, not running plays properly, little movement then generally the point guard ends up taking too many shots by default. I grant you Tin's has a bad habit of trying to one up the other point guard but some times it is not his fault. You can complain that he doesn't do enough drive and dish but if the rest of the team just stands and watches while he drives and makes no effort to find the open spot on the court then tin's is forced to take the shot. Like I said I haven't seen enough games to make any kind of call on just what is happening but I will say that I am sure Rick's offense is not built around Tin's leading the team in shots taken.
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    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    98% of Jamaal's shots come when the other players pass them up. He is often the only one willing to take those shots. Yes we do better when he is passing than when he is shooting but he has also hit a LOT of clutch shots for this team. He is not a good shooter but he is getting better. Every player has stretches where they just dont shoot well. Especially when that was an area they have to work on to begin with.

    When Jamaal shoots poorly you all want to cruicify him, its like you have not watched other players before. EVERYONE from Reggie, to Michael, to Steve Kerr has bad shooting nights.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    98% of Jamaal's shots come when the other players pass them up.
    LOL. That is completely false. I would say it does happen, but not anywhere near 98% of the time. In fact, some games the majority of his shots are one-on-one post-ups when no one else touches the ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    He is often the only one willing to take those shots. Yes we do better when he is passing than when he is shooting but he has also hit a LOT of clutch shots for this team.
    Granted, the team does not have a "go to" player...and he attempts to be that man. "Attempts" is the key word. ...and perhaps he does hit a few clutch shots merely on volume. However, he is not the best person to take the shot considering he is 13th in FG% on the team. ...and his placement on this list has little to do with him being the last ditch resort and a lot to do with him being a poor shooter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    He is not a good shooter but he is getting better. Every player has stretches where they just dont shoot well. Especially when that was an area they have to work on to begin with.
    Agreed, he is not a good shooter, but he is not getting better. In fact, he is getting worse. His FG% has gone from 41.8 two years ago to 40.9 last year to 38.6 this year. His 3pt % is down to 32% after being at over 37% for two straight years two years ago. I don't consider this progress. I also think his decision-making is getting worse. His assists totals are poor and below his career avg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    When Jamaal shoots poorly you all want to cruicify him, its like you have not watched other players before. EVERYONE from Reggie, to Michael, to Steve Kerr has bad shooting nights.
    I don't want to crucify him. I just want a different PG who can play D and is not highly overrated on offense.

    BTW, a bad shooting night for Reggie Miller came when he missed shots moving 100mph from 22' out. Jamaal can go completely cold when his feet are planted and no one is in the gym.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Tinsley's great passes have been less frequent this year. Those plays where he wowed the crowd by making a killer Mark Jackson caliber pass. It's happened, but just not like it used to.

    That's what I loved most of all about his game. That and the handles to get the ball to wherever it needed to be. I'm fine with 7-9 FGAs per game from him, a couple from 3 to keep teams honest, a couple in the post to punish the PG, a couple of lane drive floaters. Sprinkle throughout usually as the alternate shot on a regular set.

    But as a #1 option on a lot of sets, especially without shooting it better than the 35% range over the long haul (ie, not just a bad night or cold spell), it's just not a smart strategy.


    Tinsley can and has played way better than this. Is it too much to ask for the health AND the ability at the same time? I don't say this out of greed for wins even, I just happen to love watching GOOD TINS play the game. I'll pay to watch that.

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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Tinsley's great passes have been less frequent this year. Those plays where he wowed the crowd by making a killer Mark Jackson caliber pass. It's happened, but just not like it used to.

    That's what I loved most of all about his game. That and the handles to get the ball to wherever it needed to be. I'm fine with 7-9 FGAs per game from him, a couple from 3 to keep teams honest, a couple in the post to punish the PG, a couple of lane drive floaters. Sprinkle throughout usually as the alternate shot on a regular set.

    But as a #1 option on a lot of sets, especially without shooting it better than the 35% range over the long haul (ie, not just a bad night or cold spell), it's just not a smart strategy.


    Tinsley can and has played way better than this. Is it too much to ask for the health AND the ability at the same time? I don't say this out of greed for wins even, I just happen to love watching GOOD TINS play the game. I'll pay to watch that.
    This is part of the point I was trying to make in my post regarding the JO/Smith article. JT seems caught in between what we need. He has playmaking ability and the ability to get other guys good shots but we have not seen it consistently this season. He can penetrate and control the ball, but can't really finish. At least he is willing. fficeffice" />>>
    >>
    The Pacers lack a go-to guy on the perimeter and Tinsley tries to fill the void. However that is not what he is best at and he only succeeds at a 38% clip. Not good enough, but where else do we go? >>
    >>
    We need another guard to step up (trade?) and help Tinsley. More than likely any trade will involve Tinsley so we are still stuck. He is valuable in the right situation, but can we get the right situation without giving him up? >>

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Fair point Storm. There is an overall sense of searching for some structure with the team. They clearly have found some comfort zones where they understand the roles, but at other times they look lost and unsure just how they want to attack things next.

    And Tins has been one to try and fill voids like that if they are there. Jackson too, which makes his control more impressive to me. Last year he would shoot 18 times just like Tins has done lately.

    The key to me is for Rick to replace Tinsley's current choices with some new options. I think vs Atlanta we saw just that, a LOT more cuts to the lane off the low post (and not just JO...consider Tinsley's missed layup off the Al post pass across the lane), as well as a bit more semi-drive and dish from Tinsley.

    Having a different way to "bail out" of broken plays can help reduce bad choices like long chucks or other awkward shots. There is too much talent not to have some legitimately strong "final options" that are moderately decent shots.


    Let's give Tins credit on tonight's game as well - 5 FGAs to 5 assists and 1 turnover.

    Add to it Jackson getting 6 assists, some of those off of Tinsley's own work to initiate good plays. Nice game creating things in the backcourt.


    They may not be smooth about things, but WHAT Jack and Tins tried to do in tonight's game (as well as Al and Danny at times, even Saras with some catch and drives) in terms of coming to the ball, punishing Atlanta when they cheated spaces rather than leaving long passing lanes ripe for the defensive picking, and overall movement is NEW and BETTER basketball than what they were doing this time last year.

    They are frustrated because they know they have the talent. The key for Tins et al is to not let that frustration get the best of them, keep trying to work together and realize that everyone on the roster is after the same goal - a title.

  12. #12
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The key to me is for Rick to replace Tinsley's current choices with some new options.
    It still boggles my mind why we don't run more pick and roll. We have very few players that can get to the rim on their own, and we have a large number of guys who, as screeners, can both effectively cut to the hoop with strength or "pop" for an 18-footer (JO/Al/even Danny). I know Tins isn't Tony Parker or Mike Bibby and surely isn't the quickest guy in the world. But even so, he seems to make good decisions and seems to have the ability to get to the paint on the few occasions we do run the pick-and-roll.

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    Default Re: Tinsley's Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    It still boggles my mind why we don't run more pick and roll. We have very few players that can get to the rim on their own, and we have a large number of guys who, as screeners, can both effectively cut to the hoop with strength or "pop" for an 18-footer (JO/Al/even Danny). I know Tins isn't Tony Parker or Mike Bibby and surely isn't the quickest guy in the world. But even so, he seems to make good decisions and seems to have the ability to get to the paint on the few occasions we do run the pick-and-roll.

    How 'bout it Rick?
    I thought the same thing last night. We do run some PnR but it is always to setup another type of play. We could have done some damage with traditional PnR's last night IMO.

    I guess it isn't in RC's plan or he doesn't like Tinsley running it. Saras and DH used to run it.

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