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Thread: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

  1. #26
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by shockedandchagrined View Post
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    Are you suggesting that this is a quote from O'neal, because the article is not written this way. This seems to be Stein's remarks.
    No, that's not at all what I am suggesting, but it is another observer who hasn't got any ties with the team, basically saying what a lot are thinking.
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  2. #27
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by shockedandchagrined View Post
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    Mourning, this post isn't really directed at you, but rather is more of a general statement, using your post as a trigger foy my thoughts. I rarely post, so take this as my stance on all things Pacers thus far.

    I don't think it necessarily matters how old a player is or how many seasons they have under their belt. Maturity comes at different rates for different players. In fact when Reggie Miller was Tinsley's age he had yet to win a playoff series and was not far removed from childishly kicking a ball into the stands or taking a bow at center court of Chicago stadium (only to have the Bulls hit a shot at the buzzer to win).

    I'm not trying to be a Tinsley apologist here or compare him directly to Miller (except to illustrate that immaturity is a human trait), but I do think there is plenty of evidence of his immaturity, as can be said for others in the Pacer locker room. However, I also think there is plently of evidence to suggest that players can mature and realize the maximum from their set of talent(s). I don't know where Tinsley really is in this process. I hope he is closer to realization than he sometimes demonstrates, but I think few players are hopeless in this regard and that it really is a matter of time more than anything else.

    I also don't put much stock in what is printed or said, especially out of frustration. Everytime I hear fans making much ado about statements or bench behavior I tend to roll my eyes. I think these types of things happen so much through the league and are mostly unreported and irrelevant, but occassionally things are said and reported at poignant times, and we just take them and run without having any contextual appreciation.

    Last Saturday many fans thought the Pacers had turned the corner. Now they're destined to be .500 for the next three years. I suggest that everyone not take every moment to its extreme. The funny thing is that Stein's blurb actually begins in a subtly positive way, suggesting that the Pacers are a sleeper, i.e. a potentially dangerous team that has survived a notably difficult schedule while remaining within striking distance of every team in the East. But the entire focus of the fans is on what JO said out of frustration, compunded by simple innuendo from Wells.

    My optimism at this point stems from exactly what Stein asserts about the Pacers being a sleeper. JO has never looked better, both in his play and focus, and frankly I think we have yet to see the best from any other Pacer not named O'neal and Foster.

    There is still reason for hope, despite even what happens this evening against NO/OKA.
    Good post! Like maragin ahead of my already noted: if you can post more then you really should.

    Anyway, I must say that normally I'm pretty calm about the team and it's players and relatively used to the disappointments and frustration of the last few years, but these last two games, I guess something just broke inside.

    I must say that I'm stunned at how some posters are selective with regards to Jamaal.

    Anyway, I hate to make posts like I did earlier in the thread, but like I wrote before I guess something just broke inside.

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  3. #28

    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    This year has been strange.


    At least 3 Pacers (Harrington, Carlisle, Jermaine) have used the media to get a point across.


    ::shakes head::

    I don't know what the deal is, but this is getting ridiculous. I don't mind Jermaine feeling this way, but why tell Mike Wells? The man obviously has the talent to get players (and now coaches) to open up and say things they shouldn't publicly say. And he obviously has it in for the Pacers. I just wish someone involved with the team was wise enough to realize that.

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    If JO thought he could bring a championship to Indiana this year, he's a bigger fool and has a bigger ego than I ever imagined.
    What did you want him to think we are going to suck. And we are playing this season just to be playing. Removed

  5. #30

    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Sometimes systems break down even when no single part is defective.

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat
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    I don't know what the deal is, but this is getting ridiculous.
    Here's what I think. The Indiana Pacers are a "lemon" of a team. They aren't a terrible team, but they aren't very good either. And the problem cannot be pinned down to a single cause.

    We fans go around in circles blaming Tinsley's shooting, blaming Jackson's character, blaming Harrington's defense, blaming Carlisle's decisions, blaming O'Neal's leadership, blaming Foster's finesse, blaming each other for thinking too low or too highly of Granger and Williams, and right on around the circle.

    When we gripe about one thing, we overlook the fact that there are many problems rather than our own personal cause du jour.

    There is enough talent to keep the Pacers in most games. (Just as a badly tuned race car will still run 180 mph, but cannot seriously compete with the rest of the pack.)

    Every member of the Pacers organization is talented, but the system doesn't work. Carlisle is a better coach than he appears to be, and the players are more talented than they show. There are problems of playing style, and problems of personality, but the key to solving them is recognizing that the Pacers are fundamentally sick. As long as we try to blame one single player or coach, we're not seeing clearly.

    During the off-season, TPTB made some changes, but not enough. The team won't be on the right track again until we strip it down and build it back up again.

    The optimists around here have been saying all along that we are in the midst of a two-year process. I just hope the funk isn't so bad in the locker room that Granger, Williams and the other youngsters get soured before they get a chance to complete the restoration.
    And I won't be here to see the day
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  6. #31

    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    This year has been strange.


    At least 3 Pacers (Harrington, Carlisle, Jermaine) have used the media to get a point across.


    ::shakes head::

    I don't know what the deal is, but this is getting ridiculous. I don't mind Jermaine feeling this way, but why tell Mike Wells? The man obviously has the talent to get players (and now coaches) to open up and say things they shouldn't publicly say. And he obviously has it in for the Pacers. I just wish someone involved with the team was wise enough to realize that.
    When JO was talking about Ron or the age limit I thought he should just shut up. Now he's talking about how he feels and as a 10 year player maybe he is tired of going nowhere. He stepped up his game and wants others to do likewise --the whole Pacer team, coaches, PTB, etc. I assume he knows what he is doing talking to Wells. I also assume he is giving notice that he will leave when he can if things aren't fixed. Good for JO. The losing and dsyfunctionality has got to stop. Somebody has got to get a grip on this team. Go JO

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    he says this after losing a close game to a VERY good and VERY hot dallas mavericks team?
    I know he's frustrated but cmon JO.
    "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    [QUOTE=able;523238]Don't throw incorrect numbers out here, there's enough nonsense floating around without having to add to it with wrong data.



    Tins is 16th in Ast/game of all guards.
    Tins is 10th in Ast/48 min

    When cleaned (i.e. take out everone with less then 150 Ast) then he is 19th
    he's 31st in Turnovers/game
    he's 12th in total Ast dished out

    DA (with 52 total Ast) is 3.08 and Sara (98) is 1.88
    Parker (Tony) 2.00
    Del West 2.17
    TJ Ford 2.37
    Maurice Williamsn 2.26
    __________________________________________________ _______
    Why limit the total assists to 150? Tinsley ranks 26th in assists/to ratio among all PG's.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statis...ntype=2&pos=pg

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    My first thoughts.....thanks Tinsley, SJax and Harrington for playing so inconsistently and thanks to Carlisle for not doing more to get them inline ( or adjusting your offense ) when they start playing like cr@p.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    This is all beautiful as it sets the foundation for off season moves by TPTB.

    Now, I'm thinkin, TPTB will score another coup next summer; something like

    OUT

    O'neal AND #1 2008 first rounder (they love giving up those #1's)

    IN

    Anthony Johnson
    Fred Jones
    (TPTB love getting back former players ---while OVERPAYING)
    hell, maybe even James Jones

    AND

    we'll, of course, have to eat the contracts of a few players that teams don't want

    can't wait ---the future is bright for the Pacers

    Oh, is Bird in town or on yet another European trip, uncovering another one of those can't miss gems?

    Go get 'em, front office SUPERSTARS

    You know, I basically post the same content repeatedly BUT I just can't get over how ridiculous some of the offseason moves by TPTB were. I'll never get over having to give up a #1 for AL Harrington -when's the last (other) time Billy Knight actually got much the best of a deal. Consider, Isaiah Thomas, for example. He's torched by just about everyone for the way he's handled the Knicks. I mean, the Knicks have been the laughting stock of the league the past few years. YET, YET, he's assembled a collection of very good players ---his young players especially. What have Walsh/Bird done in the past few years in terms of UPGRADING the Pacer roster ----------NADA, ZIPPO, ZILCH

    the sad part is that they're not in position to get any better in the foreseeable

    this team needs to be completely revamped ---starting at the top

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by v_d_g View Post
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    This is all beautiful as it sets the foundation for off season moves by TPTB.

    Now, I'm thinkin, TPTB will score another coup next summer; something like

    OUT

    O'neal AND #1 2008 first rounder (they love giving up those #1's)

    IN

    Anthony Johnson
    Fred Jones
    (TPTB love getting back former players ---while OVERPAYING)
    hell, maybe even James Jones

    AND

    we'll, of course, have to eat the contracts of a few players that teams don't want

    can't wait ---the future is bright for the Pacers

    Oh, is Bird in town or on yet another European trip, uncovering another one of those can't miss gems?

    Go get 'em, front office SUPERSTARS
    You are like a broken freakin' record. We get you don't like the Al deal. We heard you the first time and the second time and the third...

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  12. #37

    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    When JO was talking about Ron or the age limit I thought he should just shut up. Now he's talking about how he feels and as a 10 year player maybe he is tired of going nowhere. He stepped up his game and wants others to do likewise --the whole Pacer team, coaches, PTB, etc. I assume he knows what he is doing talking to Wells.

    I don't think he does.

    This isn't Larry Bird after game 1 of the finals, where he goes to the media and says his team played like "a bunch of women".

    This is a team in a very fragile state. If you factor in the fan/franchise relationship, what's happened for the past 3 years, and the timing (early-mid season), I can't think of a single positive reason to go to the media and make your feelings public.

    Like I said, I'm glad that Jermaine cares enough about winning; we need that from our leader. But the terms "leader" and "public complaints" do not go together; especially in the Pacers' situation.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Here's what I think. The Indiana Pacers are a "lemon" of a team. They aren't a terrible team, but they aren't very good either. And the problem cannot be pinned down to a single cause.

    We fans go around in circles blaming Tinsley's shooting, blaming Jackson's character, blaming Harrington's defense, blaming Carlisle's decisions, blaming O'Neal's leadership, blaming Foster's finesse, blaming each other for thinking too low or too highly of Granger and Williams, and right on around the circle.

    When we gripe about one thing, we overlook the fact that there are many problems rather than our own personal cause du jour.

    There is enough talent to keep the Pacers in most games. (Just as a badly tuned race car will still run 180 mph, but cannot seriously compete with the rest of the pack.)

    Every member of the Pacers organization is talented, but the system doesn't work. Carlisle is a better coach than he appears to be, and the players are more talented than they show. There are problems of playing style, and problems of personality, but the key to solving them is recognizing that the Pacers are fundamentally sick. As long as we try to blame one single player or coach, we're not seeing clearly.

    As always, a good post. I think it's best to consider the "big picture" when looking at all of the Pacers' problems.


    I think the "fundamentally sick" issue would definitely solve several of our main problems, but I think the Pacers may be an exception to the norm, meaning that their areas of concern are so glaringly poor that a single change could make enough of a difference to completely change the outcomes of games. It's not the best solution, and I don't think they should focus on one thing, but I do think it would make a difference.


    Up until this past year I wouldn't have said that. But the Miami Heat changed my mind. They are much more talented than the Pacers, but I thought the fundamental problems that would occur by adding Jason Williams and Antoine Walker would negate the value of adding Shaq and having Dwayne Wade. But team play is subpar in the NBA, and they got it done. So in a weird way that gives me hope about the Pacers.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by v_d_g View Post
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    This is all beautiful as it sets the foundation for off season moves by TPTB.

    Now, I'm thinkin, TPTB will score another coup next summer; something like

    OUT

    O'neal AND #1 2008 first rounder (they love giving up those #1's)

    IN

    Anthony Johnson
    Fred Jones
    (TPTB love getting back former players ---while OVERPAYING)
    hell, maybe even James Jones

    AND

    we'll, of course, have to eat the contracts of a few players that teams don't want

    can't wait ---the future is bright for the Pacers

    Oh, is Bird in town or on yet another European trip, uncovering another one of those can't miss gems?

    Go get 'em, front office SUPERSTARS

    You know, I basically post the same content repeatedly BUT I just can't get over how ridiculous some of the offseason moves by TPTB were. I'll never get over having to give up a #1 for AL Harrington -when's the last (other) time Billy Knight actually got much the best of a deal. Consider, Isaiah Thomas, for example. He's torched by just about everyone for the way he's handled the Knicks. I mean, the Knicks have been the laughting stock of the league the past few years. YET, YET, he's assembled a collection of very good players ---his young players especially. What have Walsh/Bird done in the past few years in terms of UPGRADING the Pacer roster ----------NADA, ZIPPO, ZILCH

    the sad part is that they're not in position to get any better in the foreseeable

    this team needs to be completely revamped ---starting at the top
    Hyperbole certainly has its usefulness, but it's effectiveness is immediately lost with repetition. Misrepresenting the facts also undermines any thoughtful consideration your posts might foster.

    If you want to state that TPTB made a mistake in believing in Artest that is a valid point, but to state that they made a mistake by ultimately acquiring Harrington in a roundabout manner for Artest (sacrificing a #1 along the way) is not valid. Nor is it suggestive of a desired intent to trade JO for Fred Jones and Anthony Johnson.

    The liklihood of JO going anywhere is remote. He can suggest to the contrary, but I think he will find it difficult to walk away from 60+ million dollars of guaranteed money. Despite his play of late and the possibility that someone could offer him more if he did opt out, that is a pretty serious risk to take.

    If he should leave it will be by trade and will more than likely not be in a situation that leaves the Pacers completely without leverage, meaning they will proabably be a position to get appropriate value in return (whatever that might be at that time).

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    I'm tired of whining.
    Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by JO
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    If we don't have a system set to win a championship, if we don't have the crew to win a championship, then what are we doing?
    THANK YOU!!!!! I've been saying this for sometime now. It gets tiring just spitballing all the time, doesn't it?

    I've always considered myself a fan of the team and franchise over any individual player, but if we respond to this by letting JO walk, I may very seriously have to reevaluate my status as a fan of the Indiana Pacers.

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    THANK YOU!!!!! I've been saying this for sometime now. It gets tiring just spitballing all the time, doesn't it?

    I've always considered myself a fan of the team and franchise over any individual player, but if we respond to this by letting JO walk, I may very seriously have to reevaluate my status as a fan of the Indiana Pacers.
    I love public negotiations 1/3 of the way into the season.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    I love public negotiations 1/3 of the way into the season.
    I guess I don't get it; can you elaborate?

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    THANK YOU!!!!! I've been saying this for sometime now. It gets tiring just spitballing all the time, doesn't it?

    I've always considered myself a fan of the team and franchise over any individual player, but if we respond to this by letting JO walk, I may very seriously have to reevaluate my status as a fan of the Indiana Pacers.
    Yes, we need to seriously consider whether JO would really opt out. If he walks like Peja, that is a worst case situation. No doubt it would make us a lottery team next year...last in our division.

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I guess I don't get it; can you elaborate?
    Why is JO even bringing this up at this point? If he might go, why he might go. Does he have some crystal ball that let's him see where this team might end up? It's the second time now - in 1/3 of a season.

    Shut up and play ball.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    Why is JO even bringing this up at this point? If he might go, why he might go. Does he have some crystal ball that let's him see where this team might end up? It's the second time now - in 1/3 of a season.

    Shut up and play ball.
    He's saying it now because he doesn't want to leave, but he can't stomach staying if he feels TPTB aren't committed to bringing an NBA championship to Indiana. And I agree with him 100%. I'm just glad someone on this team feels the same way as I do as a fan.

    Btw, I can't believe nobody has commented on the title of this thread yet.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I don't think he does.

    This isn't Larry Bird after game 1 of the finals, where he goes to the media and says his team played like "a bunch of women".

    This is a team in a very fragile state. If you factor in the fan/franchise relationship, what's happened for the past 3 years, and the timing (early-mid season), I can't think of a single positive reason to go to the media and make your feelings public.

    Like I said, I'm glad that Jermaine cares enough about winning; we need that from our leader. But the terms "leader" and "public complaints" do not go together; especially in the Pacers' situation.
    I think that if the season goes south he will want to leave or have the team trade him. He may be laying the foundation for that.

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    If JO thought he could bring a championship to Indiana this year, he's a bigger fool and has a bigger ego than I ever imagined.
    QFT


    JO, Shut up and play!
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Yeah! JO may finally leave!
    Here, everyone have a : on me

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    Default Re: Star} O'Neal's Fustration Boils Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Frisbee View Post
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    Yeah! JO may finally leave!
    Yeah lottery here we come!

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