Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 56

Thread: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

  1. #26
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,132

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Pacers played fairly well tonight - they played hard with a lot of effort (sorry Jay) so for that I give them credit.

    There really isn't much to say about the game tonight except to repeat something I've said dozens of times over the past few season. Pacers have horrible guard play - tonight that was just obvious. When I as a fan want a 38 year old to play 35 minutes every game - there are major problems. I believe TPTB have tried to trade both JT and Jax and no one wants them, so we are stuck to some degree.

    If the Pacers play every game with this effort, intensity and energy they will win a lot of games.
    Agree with the last statement.
    If we are 'stuck' with JT and Jax then it's Larry/Donnies fault for drafting ANOTHER SF when there were quality guards on the board.

  2. #27
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,756

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I was only able to see the highlights on ESPN...it looks like we were in it and even winning until the 4th QTR.

    What happened in the 4th?
    If I weren't a Pacers fan -in other words just looking at it as an NBA fan, (if the Mavs were playing the Bucks for example) I'd say well the better team at home turned it on at the end and pulled the game out which is what happens about 95% of the time in the NBA.

  3. #28
    Member Roferr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    70
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    this was a winnable game that the Pacers manage to lose themselves...

    when you do have the league's best record...i guess you do tend to get breaks here and there...this game being one of 'em....
    I can't blame it on the refs. Dallas put a stifling zone defense on in the 4th quarter that caught the Pacers completely by surprise which resulted in confusion and some sloppy ball-handling.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Sure, Dallas is a better team than the Pacers. But only some of the Mavericks played well last night, and only some of the Pacers played badly. Consider how various players performed versus their own averages.


    JO scored his average, and was +6 on rebounds. JO's man (Nowitzki) was -3 scoring and -2.5 rebounds. Danny guarded him when JO was off the floor.

    Foster outperformed Dampier. Foster was +5 scoring and +3 rebounding. Dampier was -9 scoring and -3 rebounding. Wow!

    Harrington scored +6 and rebounded +5. But Dwight Howard had a good night, too: +6 scoring and +4.5 rebounding. A wash.


    So far, the Pacers are still in the game!!


    Let's combine the guards. Jackson and Tinsley were -5.6 in scoring. They were both close to their usual performances in assists and rebounds. But the Mavs guards went crazy. Devon Harris was +13. Terry was way off, but George made 13 points (+7 from his average.)

    The Dallas bench scored 30; the Pacers bench 19. If you figure George rather than Terry as the primary Mavs guard, then that becomes Mavs bench 17, Pacers bench 19.

    The Pacers outperformed the Mavs at power forward and center. We matched them at whatever position Harrington plays and from the bench. But we still lost the game by 9 points.

    Anybody who wants to pin this loss on the Pacers guards, I'm thinkin' you may be right.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  5. #30
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,981

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    The referees were reasonably friendly towards our players I would argue. Take for example the "body check" Jamaal gave Harris in the fourth quarter. Could have very easily been a flagrant.

    And I didn't think Dallas was playing that well. I think they almost had an off-night.

    Tins threw the ball away way too many times, took way too many shots,
    made bad decisions on both offense and defense. All of the bad particularly in the second half.

    Stephen atleast stopped shooting, but he too thought arguing with the referees while his man virtually could finish the Dallas counter uncontested. His defense at times was bad at times reasonable. His turnovers ...

    Al. Nice statline. Shooting went pretty well and he picked up a good number of rebounds. Pitty he made George and his other direct opponents look like better players then they are by playing virtually non-defense also too many turnovers.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  6. #31
    Member Roferr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    70
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sorry, but JACKSON was not even on the court for most of the collapse. And he only took 5 shots, hitting 3 of them. He only played 25 minutes.

    One single player stood strongly out as the issue, with a Robin to his Batman.
    Tinsley, with Al as his sidekick.

    Tinsley got crazy ball dominate the final 6 minutes, and at times didn't even put the ball in JO's hands at all. Jackson, in contrast, passed up many shots and tried to work the system.

    For example, around the 6 minute mark Harrington rushed up court, tried to force a transition layup and instead fumbled it almost away. The scrum on the floor (helped by Jeff to save it) ended up with Jack getting the ball at the 3 line and wide open. But with 2 players out of the play and no one to rebound he instead reset the set. They ran a proper play that ended up getting Al a wide open 3 after moving the ball all over the court.

    For that Jackson got benched so Rick could go big with Al and Danny, JO and Jeff. And Danny on Dirk no less, not defending the "SG".

    Al at times showed some scoring moves that look reasonable, but at other times he was getting clearly outplayed.


    Tinsley...I just wanted him off the floor by the time he fouled out. It's not missing shots or not being the most talented player, it's how he takes the more talented Pacers out of the loop all by himself down the stretch. This was repeat of what he did in the Minny game.


    What I don't get is what happened to "good Tinsley", the one we were waiting to get healthy again? Now he's playing every game and I don't even want him to. He's played MUCH better basketball than he's been showing the last month.

    And much the same could be said about Harrington.


    Jack is catching too much flack in all this I think. His game is flawed, but he at least looks to be buying into the team concept. He's certainly not the liability that Armstrong is on the court, despite his energy and attitude (DA I mean). DA doesn't have a shot anymore and gambles on defense constantly (leading to easy looks), but at least he seems to sense what the team needs from play to play.

    I stuck by Tins a long time, but this 4th quarter take-over version is terrible and unacceptable.


    JO is a freaking monster. Jeff, bunnies or not, continues to have a great season as well. Danny I think is showing small steps of progression in his awareness.

    I'll pay to watch them play. I'll still pay to see Jack play. I enjoy Baston, DA, Saras, Quis, Powell, and Rawle too.

    But Tins and Al are moving into Harrison territory if they keep this up, as in "don't bother". I just can't understand what has happened to either of them.
    Yelp, can't blame this one on Jax. Tins stunk up the place....17 shots and 5 to's. Only thing you can blame Jax for is staying on the bench for the the 4th quarter for spouting off to RC again. I believe he would have come back in crunch time, if not for yakking at RC.

    The real reason for the loss was that the Mavs played lock down zone defense in the 4th that just baffled the Pacers. They were confused and didn't handle the ball well. The Mavs may have been a little overly aggressive and may have committed a couple of uncalled fouls, but the good aggressive teams seem to get the breaks. But, I'm not blaming it on the zebras at all.

    RC should have jerked Tins at least long enough to read him the riot act and get the point across that he is first and foremost a PG not a SG.

  7. #32
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Dat Dude View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Jamaal Tinsley shooting happened.
    Out of curiosity, when JO gets doubled, who else should take those shots when everybody is seemingly slumping? Al? Jack? Danny? Come on! The same thing will happen regardless of who takes the shots. The difference is that JT seems to be the only one who willingly takes those shots. Obviously, he is not the answer, but I ask you this...who is?

  8. #33
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,981

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Harrington scored +6 and rebounded +5. But Dwight Howard had a good night, too: +6 scoring and +4.5 rebounding. A wash.

    Anybody who wants to pin this loss on the Pacers guards, I'm thinkin' you may be right.
    Aggreed! Except on Al. He got a good amount of points on decent shots. Rebounded better then normal. Though his numbers are misleading IMO. His defense was awfull. Further, Al was on George not Quis or Stepehen and granted him two uncontested 3-pointers.

    The main problem lies in the backcourt though. And I aggree this game was definitely winnable against a Dallas team that almost seemed to have an off-night.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  9. #34
    Member Roferr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Age
    70
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I was only able to see the highlights on ESPN...it looks like we were in it and even winning until the 4th QTR.

    What happened in the 4th?
    That's when the difference between a cohesive, experienced team and a team looking for an idenity was grapically played out.

  10. #35
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,981

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Out of curiosity, when JO gets doubled, who else should take those shots when everybody is seemingly slumping? Al? Jack? Danny? Come on! The same thing will happen regardless of who takes the shots. The difference is that JT seems to be the only one who willingly takes those shots. Obviously, he is not the answer, but I ask you this...who is?
    Only looking at percentages now ... I would say Danny, Al, Stephen, Quis. This guy shot 9 times in the fourth and hit 0. Atleast Stephen a lot of times realizes that he's just not going to hit much and reduces the number of shots he takes. What made things worse was Tins one-on-one crap against AJ and against Harris, particularly in the fourth.

    I don't think Al would have a problem shooting the ball another gazillion times, so I don't buy that Tins was the only one that "sacrificied" his overall game for the team and took the difficult job upon him of taking the shots when they were becoming harder.

    He took 18 shots. 18!!! That's more shots then Dirk took and the same amount of shots JO took. I rather have JO take some difficult shots then.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  11. #36
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Quit making up excuses for him. You only do that for Tinsley. I really appreciate you as a poster Jay, but you are really using a double standard here IMO.

    There were a lot more bad shots and bad decisions made by Tinsley then blown fastbreaks that you could blame his teammates for.

    He took 18 shots in 22:36. That's a shot every 75 seconds that he's in the game. So, divide that about two for the Mavericks and he shot about every 38 seconds of a Pacers possesion. Now if he hit them, but he only got 6 and this is not the first time this season that he shoots badly. Then let's not forget his 5 TO's either.

    Dallas didn't even play that well. We could have had them tonight. We dominated them on the boards and were about on par with shooting until the end of the 3rd, start of the 4th quarter when Tins thought it was a good idea to go up one-on-one repeatedly against Harris and also started throwing the ball away.

    True, Stephen and Danny also had horrible games and Al's statline looks better then he played, but Tins was by far the worst and killed us in the 4th.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    Coaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dat Dude View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Jamaal Tinsley shooting happened.
    Coaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roferr View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    RC should have jerked Tins at least long enough to read him the riot act and get the point across that he is first and foremost a PG not a SG.
    Coaching.

    Tinsley is doing what Rick wants him to do. That's why Rick doesn't stop it.

    Believe me, I hate shoot-first PGs. And Tinsley looks terrible as a shoot-first PG. Because he's not. His coach is trying to turn him into something he's not. He's not Travis Best (thank God). He's not Chauncey Billups (too bad). He's not Steve Francis. For God's sake, if we are going to use our PG as the #2 option, then I DO want Francis. I don't like that style of play at all but all least the Franchise is good at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Out of curiosity, when JO gets doubled, who else should take those shots when everybody is seemingly slumping? Al? Jack? Danny? Come on! The same thing will happen regardless of who takes the shots. The difference is that JT seems to be the only one who willingly takes those shots. Obviously, he is not the answer, but I ask you this...who is?
    Coaching.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  12. #37
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,996

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    For someone that started a thread about effort, and how fans really can't judge it because we don't see the whole picture, how in the world can you comment on what Rick wants Tinsley to do?

    There's just something about the Steelers and JT that won't let you see them without those rose colored glasses on.

  13. #38
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,756

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Am I the only one who isn't buying the garbage about Rick trying to turn Jamaal into a shoot first point guard. That seems absurd to me. Rick doesn't want him to shoot that much, but Rick has no other choice at point guard - we all know that - TPTB traded AJ so Rick had to play JT. Rick hjas to play Jamaal his bosses have forced his hand. This was obvious over the summer - why isn't it obvious now.

  14. #39
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,996

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    (But ofcourse you aren't stupid)

  15. #40
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    For someone that started a thread about effort, and how fans really can't judge it because we don't see the whole picture, how in the world can you comment on what Rick wants Tinsley to do?

    There's just something about the Steelers and JT that won't let you see them without those rose colored glasses on.
    Do you see Rick stopping it? No - and Rick's even got the balls to deal with Stephen Jackson this season, so I don't think Rick's "afraid" of Tinsley.

    This problem in Tinsley's style of play has been rising ever since Rick arrived, and it really took off right after the brawl when Jamaal discovered that Rick praised him most when he was scoring and playing at the team's #1/ #2 option.

    Do you think I like it when Tinsley shoots that much? Hell no.

    Do all of you seriously think that Tinsley is breaking away from the game plan that much without reprecussions?

    Tinsley is not a shoot-first PG, and everybody knows it.

    Rick has voiced a preference many times for a shoot-first style of PG.

    I'm not pulling anything out of a hat, I'm just putting all the facts together and reaching a reasonable and supportable conclusion. And its much more supportable and reasonable (IMO) than just assuming that Tinsley is doing all this on his own, without his coach's blessing.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  16. #41
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Am I the only one who isn't buying the garbage about Rick trying to turn Jamaal into a shoot first point guard. That seems absurd to me. Rick doesn't want him to shoot that much, but Rick has no other choice at point guard - we all know that - TPTB traded AJ so Rick had to play JT. Rick hjas to play Jamaal his bosses have forced his hand. This was obvious over the summer - why isn't it obvious now.
    Orien Greene?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  17. #42
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,756

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ?

    Tinsley is not a shoot-first PG, and everybody knows it.

    .
    Everyone but Rick? Do you think Rick is stupid

  18. #43
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Square peg, round hole.

    Stupid? No. In all my complaints about Rick's coaching, intellect is not one of them.

    Stubborn to a fault? Absolutely.

    We're talking about the guy who would *still* start Michael Curry if he had the opportunity.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  19. #44
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,996

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Rick is probably too scared that he's going to "disrespect" Tinsley.

    But in all seriousness, I'd rather see Tinsley shooting 18times than watch Saras play the added minutes. He can tell him until he's blue in the face that's not what needs to happen, but he really doesn't have another option to go with at this point, other than Quis and Rick is hesitant to change especially to something that different for him.

    You still manage to deflect blame on Tinsley and throw it on to RC.

  20. #45
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Am I the only one who isn't buying the garbage about Rick trying to turn Jamaal into a shoot first point guard. That seems absurd to me. Rick doesn't want him to shoot that much, but Rick has no other choice at point guard - we all know that - TPTB traded AJ so Rick had to play JT. Rick hjas to play Jamaal his bosses have forced his hand. This was obvious over the summer - why isn't it obvious now.
    I'm with you in the sense that I think Rick's hand has been forced here. If he was working with a little bit more talented guard and JT made half of those shots and his FTs, Rick would be a genius right about know. Maybe you can argue that Rick shouldn't be trying to pull this with JT, but who else does he go to? Jack? Danny? Al? All of those guys have been wildly inconsistent.

    I also don't think we can blame Jamaal. He is just not that good. This is not his fault. This is why the Pacers aren't the Mavs. We don't have their talent. We either need to develop some consistent performances from everyone (see Detroit game) so that Jamaal doesn't have to do his best AI impression or we need to bring in a second option.

    Another note, I think Danny shows signs of being able to develop that second option ability as soon as next year, so don't give up on him yet...

  21. #46
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You still manage to deflect blame on Tinsley and throw it on to RC.
    So what?

    From what I've observed, Rick doesn't get enough blame and Tinsley gets too much.

    I'm not happy with either of them. I don't want Tinsley taking that many shots EVEN IF he's hitting them.

    But blaming Tinsley without even considering whehter or not he's playing the way his coach wants him to play is one-sided and ignorant, IMO. Especially when there is a lot of evidence that he IS just doing what he's been asked to do.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  22. #47
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    fort wayne In
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,813

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    tinsley can be blamed because in the fourth he threw away team offense nd decided to loose us this game one on five. the only reason he only took 50 percent of our teams shots down the strech is the fact that some other plyers rebonded. And to the guy who said tinsley is forced to take bad shots, your full of it. last night Tinsley started chucking to close out the game he didn't even look to run the team offense.
    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm with you in the sense that I think Rick's hand has been forced here. If he was working with a little bit more talented guard and JT made half of those shots and his FTs, Rick would be a genius right about know. Maybe you can argue that Rick shouldn't be trying to pull this with JT, but who else does he go to? Jack? Danny? Al? All of those guys have been wildly inconsistent.

    I also don't think we can blame Jamaal. He is just not that good. This is not his fault. This is why the Pacers aren't the Mavs. We don't have their talent. We either need to develop some consistent performances from everyone (see Detroit game) so that Jamaal doesn't have to do his best AI impression or we need to bring in a second option.

    Another note, I think Danny shows signs of being able to develop that second option ability as soon as next year, so don't give up on him yet...

  23. #48
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,996

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But blaming Tinsley without even considering whehter or not he's playing the way his coach wants him to play is one-sided and ignorant, IMO. Especially when there is a lot of evidence that he IS just doing what he's been asked to do.
    What evidence is there?

    Again, do you have knowledge of the conversation between the two? Do you have the playbook?

    I know I don't, and without something tangible how can you make that conclusion? Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, either way you don't know.

    I find it pretty amazing that someone who started a thread about not knowing the full story behind a player's effort, that you feel you can make a good enough judgement on exactly how Rick wants Tinsley to play.

    Rick must be a complete idiot if he wants Tinsley to shoot the ball just as much as JO, I do know that.

    EDIT: I still think Rick is going at this the right way though, by allowing Jamaal to do his thing. Rick has been hard on him in the past, and what came out of it? He felt "disrespected" and decided he didn't want to play. Jamaal can win you some games, more often than he's going to lose them, so letting him play is the best option.

  24. #49
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    What is Rick doing to stop it?

    Show me that evidence? Sure, what I'm working with is circumstantial, but I've shown you something and you haven't bothered to refute it. You don't get to say "what evidence" after I present some. I didn't say I had definitive proof, which is what you're asking for, I said there was evidence. Do something with it. I didn't say I could "prove" that was the gameplan, but the fact that Jamaal seems to be doing it more-and-more and Rick doesn't act like it bothers him is evidence.

    Along with the way Rick has developed other PGs and talked about PGs on other teams - we know with a high degree of certainty that Rick likes PGs that aggressively look for their shot on offense.

    Has Tinsley changed from the PG he was under Isiah to the PG he is under Rick? I think that answer is patently obvious. Why? Coaching? Player? Both?

    It shouldn't take long to pull some season-long stats on FGAs and Assists to notice the trend (but I don't have to do that right now.)
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  25. #50
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,428

    Default Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    I looked up the stats and Jammal is shooting about three times more per game vs his career stats. He's put up double figure shot attempts in 21 games and more than 15 in 10 games. His assists this year vs any of the previous Carlisle years are about average (6.2 this year to 5.8 w/ Carlisle). He averaged 8.6 shots per game with Zeke and 7.8 assists. There are less desirable options for him to pass to and his three point shot is much improved. Until Carlisle stops him from taking so many shots, one has to assume it's part of the plan. There are plenty of other players on the roster who can bring the ball up the court,initiate the offense, guard opposing point guards etc.... You can't say Runi should start in one thread then say there's no-one else he's stuck with this guy. If in fact, he was putting up shots against Carlisle's wishes he would've sat down in favor of any combination of Runi,DA,Daniels or Greene as all were dressed and ready to play against the Mavs.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •